231 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Add to that, that a dead sibling doesn't add anything later in the game as opposed to the sibling appearing later in all other scenarios, the death is also by content amount the worst option.
 
If Bethany and Carvers deaths added anything to Hawke's character or the story progression then you might call it meaningful, but as it doesn't do that it will always be the inferior choice, seen from most people anyway.

This is the heart of the issue to me, which is that keeping your sibling alive makes the game more interesting. Had they added a few more scenes dealing with the loss of the sibling, instead of simply a changed line here or there, it might be worth doing on certain playthroughs. This is also why I don't think the character deaths in the Suicide Mission work: they aren't impactful in the moment and ME2 has no time to acknowledge them after besides a 5-second scene of coffins.

Hopefully Inquisition will actually do something with character deaths. That we have 9 companions this time around may speak to a design intent to have a death or two, in which case I hope playthroughs where this happens are equally interesting to "perfect" runs.

[Ophir147]

Whether it be a good feature or no, telling people your subjective opinion on its worth is fact and respond to them telling you they disagree by essentially saying it's because they are mindless idiots is extremely arrogant. It makes you seem like a petulant child and blocks any chance of having a meaningful conversation about the topic, at least for me. Which is sad because it's actually a very interesting topic when you take into consideration both *cough* perspectives.

 

 

I agree with this guy.

 

OP, you make a lot of compelling points, but could you try being less of a dick in the process?

[Eshaye]

First of all, it makes perfect sense.

 

Secondly, I was able to get the 'Perfect Ending' for the Suicide Mission the first time, without any 'meta gaming' or 'pre knowledge.' So are sure you know what 'meta gaming' and 'pre knowledge' actually is?

 

Obviously you don't...... lol

 

It's replayable value, the fact that the game has many, many different endings suggests there are a lot of possible way of impacting the storyline, which also suggests there might not be one 'perfect' ending either.

[9TailsFox]

This is the heart of the issue to me, which is that keeping your sibling alive makes the game more interesting. Had they added a few more scenes dealing with the loss of the sibling, instead of simply a changed line here or there, it might be worth doing on certain playthroughs. This is also why I don't think the character deaths in the Suicide Mission work: they aren't impactful in the moment and ME2 has no time to acknowledge them after besides a 5-second scene of coffins.

Hopefully Inquisition will actually do something with character deaths. That we have 9 companions this time around may speak to a design intent to have a death or two, in which case I hope playthroughs where this happens are equally interesting to "perfect" runs.

If inquisitor mage is necromancer, dead companions become lieutenant for your army of undead.

[Beerfish]

It makes perfect sense and is a very very good thing.  If I bring a qunari along on some part of the game I expect to be treated in a certain way.  If I bring the head of a mage circle along, I expect something different.  If you bring along a former tevinter mage I expect something different.  It's what keeps the companions from being cookie cutter copies with zero choice or consequence to associating with them.  It also adds significant replay value.

[wcholcombe]

I really don't have an issue with this. I believe the main thing they are referring to is instances of having special interactions with certain parry members on certain quests and different ways to solve problems. I don't think they are meaning killing party members. If they are, I would imagine there would be an oopportunity or choice that would allow you to save them at the cost of something else.

I have no issue with the characters in your party helping to frame the experience differently through their contributions and viewpoints. Adds variability and replay ability.

[LenaMarie]

It's a good thing bioware has trained me to do it since me/da 1. Of course prior to now you didn't get special rewards or significant storyline changes but often you'd get bonus dialogue.

I'm talking about situations say where your dealing with Templars and chantry and you take aistair or leliana and get them having chantry related talks or da2 where you take Aveline whenever your dealing with guards for special dialogue.

I do agree though it's been frustrating figuring out when to bring who. Though I know I want to bring Cassandra and varric to see leliana. I imagine something interesting would happen.

That being said I hope there are clues like in awakening sigrun or others would blatantly say when they want to come along at times

[JamieCOTC]

You're going to ask the Grey Wardens for help. Who should be in your party? Maybe a Grey Warden would help?  You're going to talk to the Qunari. Maybe Iron Bull shouldn't stay at home?  You need to go to the Dales. Maybe, just maybe bringing the Dalish elf along wouldn't be a bad idea. You're going to a ball. Morrigan's ball. Bring your romance and maybe a mage and someone who knows Orlesian nobility. It's not rocket science.

[durasteel]

I disagree with the OP.

 

I think that the impact of specific companions on the advancement of the story at certain points adds a ton of replayability, and really makes a lot of sense, too. Much the way Alistair would never spare Logain if you let him fight for himself in Origins, or the way Varric murder bolts the psycho in II, there are times when it is not only valid but kind of awesome when a companion takes independent action based on his or her personality.

 

I think companions with well developed independent personalities are probably the best thing about BioWare games and I really find that I miss them in games from other developers. Whatever BioWare does to bring these companions even more fully to life, I support and applaud.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

You're going to ask the Grey Wardens for help. Who should be in your party? Maybe a Grey Warden would help?  You're going to talk to the Qunari. Maybe Iron Bull shouldn't stay at home?  You need to go to the Dales. Maybe, just maybe bringing the Dalish elf along wouldn't be a bad idea. You're going to a ball. Morrigan's ball. Bring your romance and maybe a mage and someone who knows Orlesian nobility. It's not rocket science.

Personally i would take a darkspawn to meet the wardens, a mage to meet the qunari, a racist to meet the dalish and Ogren to a Orlesian ball

[Mecha Elf]

I dont think this mechanic will be as severe as people are making it is. An example would be that sera would be a totally horrible dude and decides to kill him because shes that type of person. I dont think that that would be super bad. Anyway, journalists and bioware themselves have always said in ME & DA "insert mechanic" will be uber impactful and storywise, important. Not that I dont love biowares game, because I do alot, but I know that bioware advertises ther games as more than what is actually is.

[9TailsFox]

Personally i would take a darkspawn to meet the wardens, a mage to meet the qunari, a racist to meet the dalish and Ogren to a Orlesian ball

I forget to mansion this in my post. It's much better when taking what is "best"  Sarcastic Hawke ftw I hope I can be Sarcastic inquisitor take Varric, and Sera looks like will be joy to have in party.

Spoiler

[Bob from Accounting]

You're going to ask the Grey Wardens for help. Who should be in your party? Maybe a Grey Warden would help?  You're going to talk to the Qunari. Maybe Iron Bull shouldn't stay at home?  You need to go to the Dales. Maybe, just maybe bringing the Dalish elf along wouldn't be a bad idea. You're going to a ball. Morrigan's ball. Bring your romance and maybe a mage and someone who knows Orlesian nobility. It's not rocket science.

Assuming things play out that way.

 

Maybe Iron Bull is an outcast for good reason and bringing him along actally really screws things up with the Qunari. Maybe they kill him.

 

Now, I doubt that would ever happen, but if it did, it shouldn't be taken as a triumph of 'role-playing.'

[Bob from Accounting]

I can totally understand the frustration anyone could feel if something they thought they were working towards got fubared because Vivienne decided the scenario must end her way. However in many ways that is life. You can really only control you. As such I can see it as a valid mechanic.

 

You're looking at stories backwards.
 

[Maraas]

Assuming things play out that way.

Maybe Iron Bull is an outcast for good reason and bringing him along actally really screws things up with the Qunari. Maybe they kill him.

Now, I doubt that would ever happen, but if it did, it shouldn't be taken as a triumph of 'role-playing.'

So again, what you actually worry about is not "basing significant consequences off who the player brings as companions", but rather that you won't be able to predict the outcome beforehand. Those are completely different concerns.

[Bob from Accounting]

OP, you make a lot of compelling points, but could you try being less of a dick in the process?

 

Sorry. I was trying to preemptively head off the usual response I get, which is more or less 'If you don't support this, you obviously hate RPGs and roleplaying." Perhaps I was somewhat overacidic.

[Bob from Accounting]

So again, what you actually worry about is not "basing significant consequences off who the player brings as companions", but rather that you won't be able to predict the outcome beforehand. Those are completely different concerns.

 

It's an issue of whether foreshadowing is present or not. And I made sure to clarify as much at the end of the OP.
 

[eratis]

I think it's a fine line to walk, since one person's foreshadowing is another's handholding. If (purely theoretical) Sera mentions she has contacts in Redcliffe in an early talk, and then taking her along later lets you avoid the death of a somewhat important named NPC or two, I would find that rewarding.

If, right before the mission, she walked up and said "Hey, I know people in Redcliffe, take me along if you can" and the party select screen started with her selected, that's less rewarding.

[Bob from Accounting]

If people are concerned about 'replay value,' there are other ways to do it. Better ways. BioWare has no shortage of choices they might invest their resources to build divergent content upon, content that would actually build upon the player's intentions and expectations instead of invalidating or betraying them. Including choices that heavily concern characters.

 

The argument of 'realism,' as I've said several times, is wrong. And is a product of a backwards understanding of where stories come from. For a clue to it's absurdity, consider all the stupid, pointless, ugly, petty things that might 'happen' or would even be likely to 'happen' in real life. Particularly the pointless. We don't tell stories about things because they could happen or are even likely to happen in real life.

[AlanC9]

Deep Roads, Darkspawn, Darkspawn taint, ghoulification, Grey Wardens.
 
 
It may have been a new, unforeseen twist for anyone who started with DAII, but people who played DA: Origins should have had enough familiarity with the concept of Darkspawn to put one and one together.

True -- but OTOH anyone who played DA:O learned not to take the taint seriously, since you wade through tons of darkspawn in that game and none of the non-Warden companions ever have a problem.

[AlanC9]

If people are concerned about 'replay value,' there are other ways to do it. Better ways. BioWare has no shortage of choices they might invest their resources to build divergent content upon, content that would actually build upon the player's intentions and expectations instead of invalidating or betraying them. Including choices that heavily concern characters.
 
The argument of 'realism,' as I've said several times, is wrong. And is a product of a backwards understanding of where stories come from. For a clue to it's absurdity, consider all the stupid, pointless, ugly, petty things that might 'happen' or would even be likely to 'happen' in real life. Particularly the pointless. We don't tell stories about things because they could happen or are even likely to happen in real life.

Why should intentions and expectations be catered to, again? There's an implicit assumption here that I'm not really following.

[AresKeith]

The Past DA games did the same to an extent, why not this game?

[Han Shot First]

They might be referring to the missions like the one we've seen in the trailers, where Leliana ends up captured by rogue mages.

 

In another thread someone posted a link to a review where it was stated that Leliana's involvement in that mission was optional. Assigning her to infiltrate Redcliffe castle prior to your team's assault ends in failure and with Leliana being captured. According to that review she can be rescued, but torture at the hands of her captors leads to Leliana taking a harsher and less tolerant view of mages in the future.

 

*If* that is the sort of thing that Gameinformer was referring to, I think it sounds like an awesome feature.