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Flemeth Conspiracy? *spoilers*


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#1
LenaMarie

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So within the sea of Romance threads, I thought I'd put up a thought provoking one about Flemeth  for discussing. Many people seem to think Flemeth is just some benevolent guardian of the world and yeah, its a bunch of BS. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but here are things people seem to miss from the games.

 

About Morrigan:

 

-Flemeth abused Morrigan.

Yes, she did, in the fade during the Circle tower, Fake Flemeth smacks Morrigan across her face and Morrigan makes a comment how now the demon is acting more believable, and there are other tidbits about this as you get to know her, and even how she talks about Morrigan in the beginning of DA:O very disrespectfully.

 

-Morrigan is really "Chaotic Good"

There are moments when you can see she has a heart, not just in her ability to actually fall in love with the PC, but also how various characters in the games say a Mabari is a good judge of character and Dog likes Morrigan,  and despite what she says you can tell she  likes the dog too, seeming geniuinely happy to see Dog in Witch Hunt. More then that, alot of the problem is the abuse she's suffered at Flemeths hands that have warped her sense of right and wrong. 

 

 

As Flemeth herself, shes not good at all. But wait, the common reply "But she saved the Warden and wanted them to stop the blight!" 

Yes, this is true but really and this can be figured out with actual in game conversations, she did it for her own ends. Morrigan did not find out about a Warden dying when slaying the archdemon nor the Dark Ritual from one of Flemeth's books, Flemeth told her about it.  Which brings us back to the beginning again, and a question asked that finally does get answered at the end of the game: Why did Flemeth save the warden? Morrigan claims not to know, stating she'd have saved Calian instead.

 

Firstly, if she really cared about stopping the Blight, would not Flemeth go save Duncan and some of the Senior grey wardens? Rather then noob Wardens? One would think, but Morrigan answers this herself later in the game: The Dark Ritual would only work on new wardens where the taint hasn't fully taken hold yet. Which brings up the notion Flemeth deliberately took  inexperienced wardens to further her own plot. Using Morrigan to become impregnated with old god baby, which them Flemeth would have taken Morrigan's body and raised the child for unknown ends.

 

Morrigan did not know much of anything, and said Flemeth never told her much of anything, except what to do, presumably if she was rebellious flemeth hit her and pushed her into line.

 

Before you leave her house in the beginning with Morrigan, you can actually talk to her again, and she makes it very clear she HATES humans and wants the world to burn if you asked her for advice, which brings up more questions, why would she ever want to save the world if she hates humans and people so much?

 

As the game progresses and Morrigan researches her Mother she becomes 'disturbed' at what she finds out, of the course the worst of it is Witch Hunt when she tells the Warden to Hunt Flemeth because of how bad she really is, though she does not elaborate.

 

Even in her DA2 appearance, gloves off Flemeth was much different from her aloof old hermit thing in DA:O. She would have seriously left Hawke and company to die, but she saw a use for them, not the act of some benevolent guardian. Alot of her words are suspicious when you add up it paints a picture of someone with very sinister motives, and worse, someone who has some grand long term scheme in mind.  There are more instances where you can get glimpses of Flemeth but i brought up the main points for discussion. 

 


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#2
Samahl

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I don't think most people believe Flemeth was looking out for anybody but herself. She is very clearly playing a Long Game.


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#3
myahele

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I always believed that she had a pro-dragon agenda.

 

1. She tasks Morrigan to do the Dark Ritual. She even believes it was the right choice despite learning more about her mother

2. There's Yavana who looks after and awakens old sleeping dragons. One of which (a Queen) could "speak" in dragon language

3. There's the deal with king Maric (who has the blood of an ancient dragon)

4. According to legend a witch gave the location of a dying ancient dragon where he could then consume it's blood

5. The blight threatens all life, including dragons/ old gods

 

It's been speculated that dragon's are necessary to the world, but why? Their blood is potent enough to make reavers and to increase the potency of magic. Maybe killing ALL dragons, including Old Gods, is a bad idea?


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#4
Yggdrasil

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I've never thought of Flemeth as benevolent...I just don't want her to be bad.  I was "meh" about her in DA:O, but I really liked her a lot in DA2, mostly because of Captain Janeway's voice acting.  I'll be disappointed if she turns out to be the root of all evil, but I agree with the OP that it would be plausible.



#5
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*

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At one point in history Flemeth was an actual sorceress, but was possessed by a spirit related to (or an actual) the Old Gods when she fled Highever. The being that we interacted with in DA:O and DA2 is this spirit that was imprinted with the original Flemeth's personality and has been possessing her various daughters throughout history as a means of survival. She needed the Wardens to stop the Blight because she didn't want to be corrupted by the Darkspawn taint like the other Old Gods. 

 

Also a quote that I find interesting...

 

"In the dark shadows before you take vengeance duty must come first as my mother once said."

 

This old 'Flemeth' that we meet in DA:O pretty much confirms that she's just a predecessor of Morrigan. 


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#6
Wolfen09

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i always thought morrigan had a higher chance of being a good character than flemeth, but i seriously doubt we will be able to make the distinction until the last ever dragon age game



#7
Pateu

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I am fairly sure Flemeth is behind the disappearance of Hawke and The Warden.


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#8
LenaMarie

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I am fairly sure Flemeth is behind the disappearance of Hawke and The Warden.


Well I think Flemeth is the only common denominator between hawke and the warden, so I could get behind that, but I'd want to question morrigan, arianne and Finn since in most cases they where the last to see the warden thus far

#9
Samahl

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Well I think Flemeth is the only common denominator between hawke and the warden, so I could get behind that, but I'd want to question morrigan, arianne and Finn since in most cases they where the last to see the warden thus far


The problem is, some Wardens did the Ultimate Sacrifice - I feel like Flemeth would have the acumen not to count on them being around to "disappear", so to speak.



#10
Mentxi

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Who knows, I see flemeth as a powerful dragon-lady that only thinks about herself, like Morrigan. It's a mistery if her intentions are good or bad, the only think I know is that Morrigan opposes her, but that doesn't mean a thing coz Morrigan herself is another mystery. This is dragon age, maybe there isn't a greater evil, maybe the rifts were some kind of consequence of something Flemeth planned long time ago, maybe morrigan wants to stop her mother or maybe she wants to be like her...



#11
KC_Prototype

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I agree good sir, I agree. Flemeth is a true Wildcard! Morrigan is manipulative, bitchy(can be), selfish but is lovable no doubt but Flemeth isn't quite the same. She's still lovable as a character but it different ways. Flemeth isn't the big bad but she isn't an angel.



#12
KC_Prototype

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At one point in history Flemeth was an actual sorceress, but was possessed by a spirit related to (or an actual) the Old Gods when she fled Highever. The being that we interacted with in DA:O and DA2 is this spirit that was imprinted with the original Flemeth's personality and has been possessing her various daughters throughout history as a means of survival. She needed the Wardens to stop the Blight because she didn't want to be corrupted by the Darkspawn taint like the other Old Gods. 

 

Also a quote that I find interesting...

 

"In the dark shadows before you take vengeance duty must come first as my mother once said."

 

This old 'Flemeth' that we meet in DA:O pretty much confirms that she's just a predecessor of Morrigan. 

What do u mean?



#13
KC_Prototype

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I am fairly sure Flemeth is behind the disappearance of Hawke and The Warden.

You and me both pal. It just seems like she fits in with them being MIA because they are in debt to her.



#14
godModeAlpha

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Not come accross anyone who thinks Flemeth and Morrigan are not dodgy, in fact some even think Flemeth and Morrigan are connected to the veil rupture. There is an on-going discussion here too: http://forum.bioware...orrigan-urzara/

 

Somehow I hope I find out what happened to my Warden from Leliana and also what happended to Hawke from Varric.

 

PS: I believe Morrigan is dodgy, else why would she play the Warden the whole time and then Bam in the end reveal her motives, only because it was in her interest.



#15
AltanIV

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You and me both pal. It just seems like she fits in with them being MIA because they are in debt to her.

 

Technically they aren't, The Warden saved her from the Blight (not directly mind you but as she said in time the Blight would have taken her over as well), as she wanted him to. 

And Hawke made the ritual with her amulet and in so doing probably saved her. Well technically she wasn't truly dead, but it gave her a physical body in Thedas.

 

Don't get me wrong, she still could have something to do with their disappearance but it is not because they are in debt with her.



#16
mikeymoonshine

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I don't think anyone believes Flemeth was actually a great mother and a morally fine character (well maybe some do  :mellow:) we just don't all think she is necessarily a villain. 

 

I dunno what she is up to be she is definitely up to something. I just don't see her as an antagonist or at least not to every player. That might be partly just because I feel like it would be too obvious for her to eventually turn out to be the big bad and who knows, maybe she will be but I just don't see it. 

 

I don't really think good and evil should apply to Flemeth. 



#17
Pateu

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Technically they aren't, The Warden saved her from the Blight (not directly mind you but as she said in time the Blight would have taken her over as well), as she wanted him to.

 

Flemeth might've lied.

 

She is a dragon, she can fly away from the blight.

 

If theories are true she's almost in the same league as the Old Gods.



#18
LenaMarie

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I feel compelled to point out King Maric "Disappeared" doing a favor for Flemeth and Lo and behold another of Flemeths daughters became involved and the whole thing was sketchy. So it wouldn't be the first time famous people disappeared because of Flemeth.
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#19
azarhal

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-Flemeth abused Morrigan.

Yes, she did, in the fade during the Circle tower, Fake Flemeth smacks Morrigan across her face and Morrigan makes a comment how now the demon is acting more believable, and there are other tidbits about this as you get to know her, and even how she talks about Morrigan in the beginning of DA:O very disrespectfully.

 

I don't remember the demon slapping Morrigan at all in that quest. My game always had Morrigan saying how bad the demon was at "playing" Flemeth.



#20
Helios969

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I don't think anyone really thinks Flemeth is good. The real question is whether her schemes are "evil." She is a "fly in the ointment." But what exactly is she tainting? I'm definitely excited to see her plans come to fruition and see how it impacts Thedas.

#21
wickedgoodreed

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Many people seem to think Flemeth is just some benevolent guardian of the world and yeah, its a bunch of BS. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but here are things people seem to miss from the games.

*snip*

 

Do we have enough pieces of the puzzle to guess what the picture is yet? As others have said, whatever Flemeth turns out to be, I hope it's a bit more complex than simply evil. I would agree that she is not benevolent, but that doesn't automatically make her malevolent. Lots of people are self-serving rather than altruistic.

 

I didn't get the impression that she "hates humans and wants the world to burn," rather she is indifferent. More specifically, she is indifferent to the suffering of people too foolish to acknowledge the danger right under their noses.

 

From what we know of her from Morrigan, self-preservation would be Flemeth's priority. Flemeth also seems to possess some degree of prescience. She has probably seen the Fade tears coming and been preparing herself to weather the storm. Beyond that, she is a deliberate mystery.

 

 

I don't remember the demon slapping Morrigan at all in that quest. My game always had Morrigan saying how bad the demon was at "playing" Flemeth.

 

She does. Pretty sure that's where the animation for the infamous "Slap Morrigan" mod came from. <_<



#22
Mykel54

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Flemeth can read the past like it is nothing. I have the theory that anyone with blood magic can do so however. There is one quote from Loghain i really like that supports my theory: "The past is always with us, it is in our blood and our bones and we carry it on our skin". So basically blood would act like a written form of your history, and those who know advanced blood magic could perfectly learn to "read your blood" and tell you your past.

 

She can predict the future with a good chance of success (she seems to doubt sometimes about her own predictions "It is fate or chance, i can never decide"), ex. she predicted that Jory would die in the joining, and in DA2 she seems to predict a very big event that would change the world, clearly the veil tear of DA3.

 

She can also manipulate dalish clans into doing her biddings, being basically flemeth´s lackeys (ex. stolen throne, DA2). So she is connected to the old gods or the elven pantheon in some way, most people say she is Fen´harel. The dalish warden also mentions that morrigan´s shapeshifting abilities are known to some dalish keepers, implying that there is a common point in magic lore.

 

So far i have to agree with the theory that she is Urzara, however it isn´t very clear yet what the old gods are. Morrigan said in  DAO that in order to shapeshift into an animal, you need to learn to copy it´s soul. This would imply that Flemeth has learned to copy the soul of a High Dragon. Or maybe she is actually a dragon and her shapeshifted form is the human one.



#23
myahele

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Wow! I had no idea that you had to study a creature's sould in order to shapeshift to it. I thought you had to study its anatomy.

#24
Little Princess Peach

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She's not bad nor Good, the only reasons why she helped out Late King Maric and the warden/Hawke is because it benefited her plans at that time.



#25
Mykel54

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Wow! I had no idea that you had to study a creature's sould in order to shapeshift to it. I thought you had to study its anatomy.

 

It is a rather obscure tidbit of information, only appearing in banter between Shale and Morrigan.

 

You can find all the banter here: http://dragonage.wik.../Shale/Dialogue

 

I also wanted to add that another proof that Morrigan suffered abuse from Flemeth is in the dwarf commoner origin, where the PC mother abused the warden. When you meet your mother in the royal palace, and she treats you like the drunken old bat she is, then Morrigan says something like "Looks like we have more in common than i thought".