114 réponses à ce sujet

[Dussan2]

Real life is better balanced.

Too bad democracy is getting nerfed again.  

 

[Wulfram]

All I want from crafting is the ability to ignore it.

 

Well, I might use the cosmetic abilities if I don't have to deal with the rest of the tedium.

[Th0r1369]

I'd like to see slower leveling progression. In BG, it took about 5-10 hours of play per level. That was a good rate, I think.

You, sir, are someone I'd like to game with.

 

I agree.

 

I am tired of people playing RPG's and expecting instant gratification!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Too bad democracy is getting nerfed again.  

 

Since I appear never to agree with the majority, I'd call that a win.

[rocsage]

Orgins was good. 

mana clash>mage bane.

blood wound>trap.

[DaySeeker]

I like the idea of customizing better than crafting. I do not like having an inventory full of plant roots and shiny stones that weren't the right plant root or shiny stone or not enough of it.  In the demos one can see that some plants are highlighted, so I assume there is a crafting elemnt which I'm guessing is for potions and such since we don't auto-heal.  I liked crafting better in DA2.  I didn't like having to choose between adding tactic slots or talents and crafting- crafting always gets ignored for me.  Add to this the time constraints of the game (it has been stated that you are on a time table of sorts) crafting and searching would not be helpful unless you can send minions to go collect things for you.  If we, say, find the original red poppy, we show it to the minions, tell them it is found in places like x and send them to collect- that idea I like.

[In Exile]

Rune building and trap making was hardly the scope of the First Dragon Age's crafting, was it. Crafting in Origins also encompassed brewing potions, salves, poisons, and bombs, remember? And those weren't a headache, nor a strain on your inventory... since they were useful perpetually.


Then again, what are we comparing this to? DA2? DA2 didn't even HAVE crafting. It had Ordering. I realize that some people like it that way, and those are the people who generally dislike the concept of crafting in the first place. And that's fine. personal tastes and all that. But if a game is going to claim it has crafting, it should give the player the option to engage in it. ie. The crafter should have to find components himself, mix those components together himself, and produce the finished product himself.

DA2 didn't do this. Instead, it somehow managed to turn Crafting into dumbed down money sink, which is the exact opposite of the entire point of crafting - to create stuff yourself without need of money or merchants.

 

Potions were useful, but saying that poisons or bombs had purpose is silly. You could curbstomp the entire game on nightmare without them. While it was possible to do the same without potions, it was much harder (particularly mana potions, even if you used healing to replace health potions). 

 

DA2s crafting was just an alternate store, but saying that DA:O's crafting has purpose is equally misguided. 

[VilhoDog13]

I disagree

Origins crafting system was BAD, building decent runes was an outright headache requiring me to make a certain amount of lesser runes to get better ones ugh. Traps were mostly crap, the inventory would alway be full up on unused ingredients

DA2 did it better, find the resource or mineral deposit, get the recipe and create away with no overabundance of unused minerals and making getting the best runes felt much smoother

 

Yeah. I have to agree. Granted, they might have been able to make it a little more elaborate, but if I have to choose between DAO or DA2, I'll choose DA2. It was just easier.

 

Plus that inventory issue... I swear, I'd sell all my equipment and I'd still have 3/4ths full. Most of it was consumed by potions/crafting materials that I'd never use or have to wait to give to the societies that needed them. I wouldn't know what exactly I'd have to sell if I did want to get rid of some too. 

[fchopin]

I did not like crafting in DAO but it was even worse in DA2 so i hope they create something better or i will not use it.

[Gnoster]

I think both DAO and DA2 crafting systems could be improved on. To me there are two distinct functionalities regarding crafting, which needs to be addressed in order to be a good crafting system:

 

1) How deep is the crafting? Here I mean, what type of gear, food buffs, potions, etc. can you craft, does it have several layers so combining two branches into a staff, which is then combined with runes to make a magical staff and so on.

 

2) How is the usability? Here I refer to the UI. To me a crafting UI can be as simple and logical as DA2, while still maintaining a deep crafting mechanic. The UI has to be simple, seemleas and not take ½ hour to craft a single item due to having to drag and drop a thousand items around your inventory first

 

I see many people in different games link the above two points meaning "if the UI is easy to use, that must mean the crafting system is dumbed down and n00bs can use it, ergo I hate it". I do not see it that way, you can take very deep complicated crafting mechanics and present them in a simple ease of use manner through a UI in seamless function with your crafting materials etc. This is what I hope for.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Potions were useful, but saying that poisons or bombs had purpose is silly. You could curbstomp the entire game on nightmare without them. While it was possible to do the same without potions, it was much harder (particularly mana potions, even if you used healing to replace health potions).

DA2s crafting was just an alternate store, but saying that DA:O's crafting has purpose is equally misguided.

If you assume that the only possible gameplay goal is to win, sure.

Why would you assume that?

[simpatikool]

I like the idea of customizing better than crafting.

 

Well said with that. That about sums up my feelings with crafting systems. I do it, sometimes like it, but the whole find this to make that stuff sometimes just wears on my nerves. However, you can't have a complete RPG game without it. Some people just gotta have it!

[Fast Jimmy]

Well said with that. That about sums up my feelings with crafting systems. I do it, sometimes like it, but the whole find this to make that stuff sometimes just wears on my nerves. However, you can't have a complete RPG game without it. Some people just gotta have it!

To me, customizing my appearance is rather boring. I'm not a big fashion person in real life, so it's not surprising time that I wouldn't like fashion for my digital entertainment.

That being said, crafting that does more than just "do X% more damage" and, instead, opens up and enhances a multitude of different play styles is very appealing to me. This usually hasn't been true of the DA games - usually you to for the crafting that gives the best potions and the runes that do the most of the least-protected damage (usually Spirit damage in DA:O and Nature Damage in DA2). If the system was made more fluid, it could be more than just simple DPS max/min-ing... but this really comes Ito play with having a system that uses more than just combat skills.

Crafting a pair of thieves' gloves that enhance trap disarming and placement skills could enhance the playstyle of a trap-focused rogue. However, without traps being a valid form of both combat and non-combat, it becomes worthless to even consider in favor of "what can kill my enemies fastest" which usually results in a handful of power builds and equipment load outs that the vast majority of players gravitate towards. Which is kind of lame.

[Th0r1369]

I don't know about you guys, but I've not once used a trap, poison or bomb frequently in DA:O or DA2

 

I have tried them, carried them on my person... but always forgot about them. They didn't feel very useful in my opinion.

 

If they (and we know they are going to) have crafting, I'd also like to see a seperate satchel/bag/compartment for herbs/minerals/materials set aside from my backpack used to tote potions, equipment and other various junk.

 

I like being able to make potions in DA:O, saved me a ton of money, didn't bother in DA2.

[Captain Bonecold]

Most of you whine about DAO crafting system. So why do I need the resource and pay you to make the potions when I should be able to make it for free? My items. And when I mean crafting stuff I mean items like armors and weapons being made too. Also runes and other stuff.

 

Also respawning crafting materials.  Flask being use for potions. However Tables that hold these materials so you can make them. But also a special inventory so you can collect them.  This way you can craft a potion or trap out of no where. But still have the table need for armors and weapons.

 

2nd about the poisons and bombs it was called poison making and trap making in DAO. Skills were useful. Pick pocking wasn't useful to people? I miss DAO item system it was special. Gems look like gems. And fancy art work or at least a picture. Also I found myself pick pocking and gaining lots of items. DA2 lack dwarfs and elfs. 

 

Next someone going to say they don't want dwarfs and elfs in the game.  The crafting in DA2 was weak. One you need the coin and items. I need no crafting in the game in DA2 only ordering with your own supple of stuff.

[ShinsFortress]

I also would like a better crafting system.  But for me, better would be none.

 

It's a nice to have, at best.  I don't like story driven games that spend development time on Crafting.  Normally I would suggest spending that time on polish, more dialogue or cut-scenes, more action, hell even more easter-eggs.  But a game where one can defeat a *insert grossly powerful opponent here* and find loot that is worth peanuts and/or I cannot use is one thing, but when I can take pocket money, buy some consumables, *snap fingers* and hey presto make a uber-Rune of awesomeness without even heading out through the front door of 'my' Keep... why be an EMHH (Epic Monster Hunting Hero)?

 

All that stuff is great in Skyrim or whatever.  Personally, I don't want it in Dragon Age.

[mikeymoonshine]

I didn't find either system all that good but the one in DAI sounds good from what they are saying about it. Ofc that doesn't mean it will be. 

[TheWhitefire]

I disliked crafting in DA:O. I think I did a rogue playthrough where I actually used some spring traps a couple times early on. But for the most part, it was pretty unnecessary. I won't go so far as to say useless, just... unnecessary.

In DA2, I actually did like the Rejuvination potions you could get that regenerated your health and your stamina/mana. Those were super handy. And crafting runes was so much easier and so much more worthwhile in that game.

While yes, it wasn't technically 'crafting', it was 'ordering' in exchange for delivering resource locations and recipies to the vendors (and heavily discounted, I might add. You can buy the items from other vendors, but it's always significantly more expensive).

If you want a super detailed complex crafting system, though, DA is not the game for it. You want that, go play skyrim, or better yet, Minecraft. Those games focus largely on crafting, and have very well developed crafting systems. The DA:O system was an abysmal waste of skills that I could use to instead get deeper into the story through Persuasion, or yanno, actually level up my character's usefulness through tactics and combat training.

[Trikormadenadon]

As a long standing table top rpg gamer it was only natural to me that you had to choose either to be good at crafting or good at combat so it did not bother me that you had to choose between the two in the early levels in DA:O. I had no issue with the crafting system in DA:O. In DA2 it did not feel like I was making anything so I did not like that crafting system. At least in DA:O it felt like my characters were actually making the stuff instead of just ordering it from people. This alone changes the tone of the system enough for me.

[In Exile]

If you assume that the only possible gameplay goal is to win, sure.

Why would you assume that?

While abilities can exist on a range of utility, there shouldn't be a radical opportunity cost to using certain abilities with absolutely no upside. 

 

A feature that functions as designed only if the player actively intends to sabotage himself is not a good feature. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

While abilities can exist on a range of utility, there shouldn't be a radical opportunity cost to using certain abilities with absolutely no upside.

A feature that functions as designed only if the player actively intends to sabotage himself is not a good feature.

I would agree in principle with your final statement there, but I don't think it describes DAO's crafting system.

Traps, combined with stealth and archery, created an entirety new playstyle that wasn't otherwise possible without using mages.

I can want to do things differently without wanting to do them badly.

Moreover, your statement about sabotage further assumes facts not in evidence regarding the player's objectives.

[In Exile]

I would agree in principle with your final statement there, but I don't think it describes DAO's crafting system.

Traps, combined with stealth and archery, created an entirety new playstyle that wasn't otherwise possible without using mages.

I can want to do things differently without wanting to do them badly.

Moreover, your statement about sabotage further assumes facts not in evidence regarding the player's objectives.

 

I agree that those created a different playstyle, but it was so incredible inferior to the other available playstyles, that I think it's difference was not enough to justify it being considered well-done, or well-executed, or otherwise desirable to use. 

 

I think there's value in traps, and tremendous value in archery; I just think DA:O executed everything very badly.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I agree that those created a different playstyle, but it was so incredible inferior to the other available playstyles, that I think it's difference was not enough to justify it being considered well-done, or well-executed, or otherwise desirable to use. 

Inferior by what standard?

 

If it was as fun, then it wasn't inferior.

[In Exile]

Inferior by what standard?

 

If it was as fun, then it wasn't inferior.

 

As measured against other abilities available - essentially, opportunity cost (whether via what else you could pick at level up or party composition). At least for me, the substantial opportunity cost is what makes these abilities not fun, because I either have to reduce the difficulty to make using them not a chore, or suffer through the chore. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

As measured against other abilities available - essentially, opportunity cost (whether via what else you could pick at level up or party composition). At least for me, the substantial opportunity cost is what makes these abilities not fun, because I either have to reduce the difficulty to make using them not a chore, or suffer through the chore.

Because you set the optimization of combat effectiveness as a goal.

I just want to make sure that we state all of your assumptions.