114 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

The only point I can see is the feel of it. To me, because you can make the stuff at any point in the game rather than having to go home or to the vendor it felt more like I was making the stuff rather than ordering it.

So basically it is a matter of perception. The problem I have with DAO system is that you could make potion, poison or trap no matter what the complexity out in the field with no workbench. Simple items would be believable, but not the more complex items. 

 

I found the perception in KOA to be more believable you had the workbench for alchemy or sagecrafting and a forge for weapon/armor salvaging or construction. Even in Fallout NV the protagonist had Veronica or ED-E as portable workstations. As I state before KOA allowed for experimentation of potions. The protagonist could combine ingredients to make potions without a recipe. Unstable potions could be used which could give unknown effects.

 

Games like Arx Fatalis and Legend (The four Crytals of Trazere had more robust crafting systems which makes DAO's system look like mall shopping. That is my perspective.

[Realmzmaster]

I want to see a crafting system more in the order of KOA which gives far more control than DAO. If that level of control is not possible I would rather have DA2's system to avoid the tedium.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem is complexity was thrown out the window the moment crafting became worthless due to the over abundance of buying every single bloody elfroot in Thedas.

 

What's the point when you can break the balance that easily?

How does that defeat complexity?  That trivialises one aspect of crafting, and an aspect that has limited utility.  What good is elfroot aside from making Healing potions?  Who needs that many healing potions?  And that you can making a living at it strikes me as a good thing - if you want to do that, do that.  If you don't want to do that (if you find it tiresome), then don't do that.  It's not like you need the money for something.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So basically it is a matter of perception. The problem I have with DAO system is that you could make potion, poison or trap no matter what the complexity out in the field with no workbench. Simple items would be believable, but not the more complex items. 

 

I found the perception in KOA to be more believable you had the workbench for alchemy or sagecrafting and a forge for weapon/armor salvaging or construction. Even in Fallout NV the protagonist had Veronica or ED-E as portable workstations. As I state before KOA allowed for experimentation of potions. The protagonist could combine ingredients to make potions without a recipe. Unstable potions could be used which could give unknown effects.

 

Games like Arx Fatalis and Legend (The four Crytals of Trazere had more robust crafting systems which makes DAO's system look like mall shopping. That is my perspective.

DAO's crafting system is hardly the ideal crafting system.  I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.  Many games before and since have done better.

 

But DA2 wasn't one of them.

[Realmzmaster]

I almost forgot I like the system in Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. That was an excellent system.

[Realmzmaster]

DAO's crafting system is hardly the ideal crafting system.  I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.  Many games before and since have done better.

 

But DA2 wasn't one of them.

 

The point was that DA2 system was described as online ordering or shopping. I simply stated that DAO's system was no better than mall shopping. So I did not find it any more compelling than DA2's system. DA2 simply removed a lot of the tedium.

[Yrkoon]

DA2 removed Crafting.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The point was that DA2 system was described as online ordering or shopping. I simply stated that DAO's system was no better than mall shopping. So I did not find it any more compelling than DA2's system. DA2 simply removed a lot of the tedium.

And the fun. And any reason for it to exist at all, given its similarity to buying from a vendor.

[Fast Jimmy]

And the fun. And any reason for it to exist at all, given its similarity to buying from a vendor.

Still, it makes little sense that our character would be able to create armor better than armor smiths, potions better than alchemists or magical runes better than dwarves or Tranquil. These characters have devoted their lives to their crafts, while our character would be learning in their downtime between engaging in battle and leading an world-wide orgnaization.

I don't like the DA2 method, but the idea that the player should be at the same level (or, often, exceeding) the level of masters seems silly.

Perhaps the player could craft low level equipment, like weak or mid-level bombs, runes or poisons, but then you could take three mid level finished products to a master and get one high level product. It would explain why the master didn't have the high level item in stock to buy (not enough supplies to make it) but also would allow the player to work on crafting their own items?

Just spitballing.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Still, it makes little sense that our character would be able to create armor better than armor smiths, potions better than alchemists or magical runes better than dwarves or Tranquil. These characters have devoted their lives to their crafts, while our character would be learning in their downtime between engaging in battle and leading an world-wide orgnaization.

I don't like the DA2 method, but the idea that the player should be at the same level (or, often, exceeding) the level of masters seems silly.

Perhaps the player could craft low level equipment, like weak or mid-level bombs, runes or poisons, but then you could take three mid level finished products to a master and get one high level product. It would explain why the master didn't have the high level item in stock to buy (not enough supplies to make it) but also would allow the player to work on crafting their own items?

Just spitballing.

I don't think the PC should necessarily be able to craft high quality goods. Just interesting would be enough for me.

[Realmzmaster]

DA2 removed Crafting.

DA2 removed tedium. Like the tedium in rune crafting in Awakenings. If you wish to call DAO's system crafting that is fine. I do not find any more compelling than DA2's system.

[Realmzmaster]

And the fun. And any reason for it to exist at all, given its similarity to buying from a vendor.

 

That is subjective as you well know. I do not find tedium fun. If it removes the tedium that enhances my fun. For example rune crafting in Awakenings was simply tedium and not fun. The crafting in DAO was not particularly fun. It was mall shopping. The crafting in the other games I have mentioned in this thread were fun. IMHO.

[Realmzmaster]

I would also like to see trainers along with the crafting system. Kingdoms of Amalur, Might & Magic and Eschalon III by Basilisk games has trainers. If you want to increase the blacksmith skill the protagonists seeks out a trainer. There are different levels of trainers so a protagonist could train all the way up to Master level.

 

The training affected what materials (or ingredients) the protagonist could work with. For example different ores of metal exists in KOA. If the protagonist has a low level skill in blacksmith the protagonist can only work with leather or cloth to make armor or iron and steel to make weapons.

 

The same with alchemy and sagecrafting. There was also training for mercantile, dispelling and other skills. There were skill books for the DIY learners. That to me is a more robust crafting system tied to training.

[PsychoBlonde]

I got a chance to see the mapping of it today.

 

I think it's more interesting than both of the last two games for sure (I wasn't a fan of crafting in either).

 

 

Good.  I thought what was in Origins *barely* qualified as a crafting system.  DA2 was less a "crafting system" and more a "scavenger hunt".

 

Will we be able to name items?  I love being able to name my own items.

[PsychoBlonde]

I would also like to see trainers along with the crafting system. Kingdoms of Amalur, Might & Magic and Eschalon III by Basilisk games has trainers. If you want to increase the blacksmith skill the protagonists seeks out a trainer. There are different levels of trainers so a protagonist could train all the way up to Master level.

 

I like trainers in open world games where you can go where you like.  Not so much in games where you gradually unlock parts of the world.  One of my biggest peeves in games is getting the cool stuff when it's too late to actually do anything cool WITH it.