So in the past it was always implied Orlesians had French accents when speaking English, but we have never actually heard them speaking any kind of native language. Do Orlesians actually even speak real world French, and if not, why not?
I can suspend my disbelief that Fereldens speak UK English, I don't think it would make a lot of sense to imply that Orlesians speaking French would be "unrealistic" for a fantasy setting.
First of all it is not french as we know it, it sounds similar to the un trained ear but it's not the same, secondly they probably have there own language like Latin is to Italian.
Maybe we will hear some in the new game who knows.
It's called Translation Convention.
http://tvtropes.org/...ationConvention
The people of Thedas are speaking their own languages; they're just being translated into modern-day languages for our benefit. (And the benefit of the devs, because attempting to construct multiplie fictional languages would be insanely time-consuming.)
To be clear, they're also not speaking English in Westeros, Middle-Earth, Azeroth or ... Witcherland? Seriously, that's the name of the setting?
Why would that even be a thing though? Again, I can suspend my disbelief for Ferelden even without some explanation that it's all magically being translated, so it just seems weird to me.
I believe they are. Because when something is originally in one language and translated to another, there's always going to be some things that can't translate perfectly or once in awhile making a joke or something that involves two words sounding like each other or being the same word but mean different things and would only make sense in english. Even though they don't want to or are unable to explain why these different worlds are speaking english, that's how it was originally written and I believe that whatever you call the language it is english.It's called Translation Convention.
http://tvtropes.org/...ationConvention
The people of Thedas are speaking their own languages; they're just being translated into modern-day languages for our benefit. (And the benefit of the devs, because attempting to construct multiplie fictional languages would be insanely time-consuming.)
To be clear, they're not speaking English in Westeros, Middle-Earth, Azeroth or ... Witcherland.
The common tongue in a fictional fantasy world perfectly resembling English is a bit too much to swallow.
Except it does perfectly resemble English?
That's the thing though, I don't care and I doubt most people do. I don't need an explanation that everything is being translated, it's just English and I get it because that's what I speak so it's fine. I don't see a problem with Orlesians speaking French with included subtitles, and they can do the same with translated versions, just change the subtitles.
Except it does perfectly resemble English?.
Considering Vivienne is supposed to be known as "Madame de Fer" which is (apparently bad) French for 'Lady of Iron', its a fair assessment that Orlesians actually do speak French.
even if it is english, accents differ all the time.... in america the boston and new york accents differ from the southern accents and the wisconsin accents... hell, a long time ago some parts of spain started speaking with a lisp because their king had one, and it hasnt changed to this day... maybe someone just wanted to be different and said i want to start talking funny, lets see if it will catch on
even if it is english, accents differ all the time.... in america the boston and new york accents differ from the southern accents and the wisconsin accents... hell, a long time ago some parts of spain started speaking with a lisp because their king had one, and it hasnt changed to this day... maybe someone just wanted to be different and said i want to start talking funny, lets see if it will catch on
We have already seen multiple accents in the DA universe, different British and North American accents as well as French. The difference though is that a French accent is the byproduct of speaking a completely different language and then learning English afterwards. All of the American and English accents we hear in Ferelden are all native English speaking accents.
We have already seen multiple accents in the DA universe, different British and North American accents as well as French. The difference though is that a French accent is the byproduct of speaking a completely different language and then learning English afterwards. All of the American and English accents we hear in Ferelden are all native English speaking accents.
Weren't dwarves the ones who introduced a common tongue? From my understanding, everyone's speaking a lingua franca based off of the dwarves' native language.
EDIT: It might not actually be based off their native language, of course, seeing as there are various made-up phrases that have no English analogue, but I'm fairly certain it originated from the dwarves one way or another.
The way I see it , everyone speaks the common tongue (english ) ...human lands used to be an Empire.
And the french words and accent are just what's left of the different human tribes language.
You should look at the first few posts here. Basically most people know the common tongue, and it's even become the native tongue of some countries like Ferelden, some languages have been lost for a long time (Elven language) and some countries use the common tongue in addition to their own native tongue (Orlesian, Tevene, Qunlat).
As for why Orlesians never speak actual French I assume it's because 1) They don't want to force people to read subtitles when playing the game 2) Finding enough native speakers as voice actors would probably be a pain (unless I'm mistaken Leliana's voice actress is the only actual French person voicing an Orlesian). Also once you introduce French as Orlesian you'd probably need to do the same for the other languages like Antivan and such, which just multiplies all the previous problems.
As for why Orlesians never speak actual French I assume it's because 1) They don't want to force people to read subtitles when playing the game 2) Finding enough native speakers as voice actors would probably be a pain (unless I'm mistaken Leliana's voice actress is the only actual French person voicing an Orlesian). Also once you introduce French as Orlesian you'd probably need to do the same for the other languages like Antivan and such, which just multiplies all the previous problems.
They should do that though. When you have only characters of a particular language in a scene, or you have private asides between such characters, they should speak their own language. Think about how cool that is to see (and hear). It adds life and interest to a setting. The language barriers that exist become interesting story elements. Language itself is interesting all on its own.
Heck, they did that already for a few scenes, Fenris speaking qunlat to the arishok and the dwarven tavern song in DA:O. I don't even like Fenris, but I loved that scene. And the elves fall in and out of their language a good bit. The languages are one of the coolest things about the setting. It'd be nice to make them a little more prominent. Technically, you could even take lines from different localisations for ambient conversations in a given setting.
As for french speakers in DA, I believe Isolde's VA was also a native speaker. I don't know about any of the rest. But honestly, they could hire Quebeci actors to fill those roles, if you're going to actually be speaking. It's one province over. Spanish you can find in abundance even near the US sound studios they use. A lot of modern American actors, or people in any field, grew up in bilingual homes or around a lot of spanish, especially in the south. Fluency in spanish is pretty high. The big hubs are really international cities. Draw from the theater community. When you start casting for german or especially latin and the fantasy languages they use, it's tougher to find actors that can do that well I'm sure. But a lot of that has the benefit of limited expectations from listeners where there's no real world analogue or experience.
I understand the concerns about dividing an actor's focus. I still think those languages should be sprinkled in there in the appropriate settings and scenes. The problem, to me, is more about when they play off foreign accented characters for comedic effect, but that's really a writing issue.
They should do that though. When you have only characters of a particular language in a scene, or you have private asides between such characters, they should speak their own language. Think about how cool that is to see (and hear). It adds life and interest to a setting. The language barriers that exist become interesting story elements. Language itself is interesting all on its own.
Heck, they did that already for a few scenes, Fenris speaking qunlat to the arishok and the dwarven tavern song in DA:O. I don't even like Fenris, but I loved that scene. And the elves fall in and out of their language a good bit. The languages are one of the coolest things about the setting. It'd be nice to make them a little more prominent. Technically, you could even take lines from different localisations for ambient conversations in a given setting.
As for french speakers in DA, I believe Anora's VA was also a native speaker. I don't know about any of the rest. But honestly, they could hire Quebeci actors to fill those roles, if you're going to actually be speaking. It's one province over. Spanish you can find in abundance even near the US sound studios they use. A lot of modern American actors, or people in any field, grew up in bilingual homes or around a lot of spanish, especially in the south. Fluency in spanish is pretty high. The big hubs are really international cities. Draw from the theater community. When you start casting for german or especially latin and the fantasy languages they use, it's tougher to find actors that can do that well I'm sure. But a lot of that has the benefit of limited expectations from listeners where there's no real world analogue or experience.
I understand the concerns about dividing an actor's focus. I still think those languages should be sprinkled in there in the appropriate settings and scenes. The problem, to me, is more about when they play off foreign accented characters for comedic effect, but that's really a writing issue.
All the examples you've brought up are in made-up languages, where authenticity is not a concern. You don't have to worry about finding native speakers (because there aren't any) and no one's going to notice if you make mistakes because no one actually speaks it. When using real-life languages however, you have to be a bit more careful than that, because a lot of people are going to pick up on your mistakes immediately.
And while I know that native French speakers are not hard to find in Canada, Quebec French is immediately recognizable from 'Standard' French and since all the Orlesians so far have had Standard French accents I'm not sure how that would work out. Most people wouldn't hear the difference, but I'd find it pretty jarring (as in the last Captain America movie for example, where a guy who was said to be French speaks with an unmistakable Quebec accent).
Without even taking voice acting into account, writing the lines themselves could also be an issue if the writers aren't native speakers or at least bilingual. And even if it's grammatically correct the line can still sound pretty weird.
I think it's just a lot of trouble for something that doesn't add all that much. Especially since it would be pretty easy to get it wrong.
Finally I'm a bit confused about including Anora here because she's not Orlesian at all. Did you mean Isolde ?
(unless I'm mistaken Leliana's voice actress is the only actual French person voicing an Orlesian)
Riordan was voiced by Stephane Cornicard. He also voiced Stroud and Hubert in DA2.
All the examples you've brought up are in made-up languages, where authenticity is not a concern. You don't have to worry about finding native speakers (because there aren't any) and no one's going to notice if you make mistakes because no one actually speaks it. When using real-life languages however, you have to be a bit more careful than that, because a lot of people are going to pick up on your mistakes immediately.
And while I know that native French speakers are not hard to find in Canada, Quebec French is immediately recognizable from 'Standard' French and since all the Orlesians so far have had Standard French accents I'm not sure how that would work out. Most people wouldn't hear the difference, but I'd find it pretty jarring (as in the last Captain America movie for example, where a guy who was said to be French speaks with an unmistakable Quebec accent).
Without even taking voice acting into account, writing the lines themselves could also be an issue if the writers aren't native speakers or at least bilingual. And even if it's grammatically correct the line can still sound pretty weird.
I think it's just a lot of trouble for something that doesn't add all that much. Especially since it would be pretty easy to get it wrong.
Finally I'm a bit confused about including Anora here because she's not Orlesian at all. Did you mean Isolde ?
Yes Isolde >< Just slipped. I tend to flip those names a lot, even though I love both characters. lol Anyway, thanks, I'll edit it.
The accent disparities aren't really an issue though, as long as they're either real or treated respectfully, because if you think about it, those exist across all the existing groups in english, including Orlesians. Leliana and Riordan don't sound like the other Orlesians. Oghren doesn't sound like Varric, Merrill doesn't sound like her tribe, Loghain doesn't sound like Alistair doesn't sound like Hawke doesn't sound like Sebastian, y'know? But unless you're talking about family members or people of the same social status from the same city, those kinds of accent variation make sense. Orlais is a large empire. I don't really expect people from all over the country to speak 'correct' Orlesian, just like I don't expect accent homogeneity in the real world. National accents are very broad generalizations.
On a side note, with the whole differentiation of various cultures by accent we've had in DA, I wonder how that has transferred into other language editions? It's sad but I feel like this gets overlooked sometimes by localization. I remember when I first bought the wife Japanese editions of Wheel of Time, I was flabbergasted when she told me Bayle Domon talked just like anybody else. Surely the could have written him with at least like a modified Kansai accent or something.
I've wondered about that too. I've always thought working with the localization teams more closely was probably a good idea all around.
Except it does perfectly resemble English?
That's the thing though, I don't care and I doubt most people do. I don't need an explanation that everything is being translated, it's just English and I get it because that's what I speak so it's fine. I don't see a problem with Orlesians speaking French with included subtitles, and they can do the same with translated versions, just change the subtitles.
You wouldn't need to use different languages with subtitles actually. According to the lore Thedas has a common trade tongue, derived from a dwarvish language I believe. Characters speaking in English are using that.
Basically, most of the people in the series are bilingual. They speak that common trade tongue and whatever their native language might be. In the case of Ferelden, that trade tongue has completely replaced the original language(s) of the Alamarri tribesmen that settled there.
That being said, I wouldn't mind characters occasionally saying a phrase in another language. Or since Leliana is returning, have her sing a medieval French ballad:
Yes Isolde >< Just slipped. I tend to flip those names a lot, even though I love both characters. lol Anyway, thanks, I'll edit it.
The accent disparities aren't really an issue though, as long as they're either real or treated respectfully, because if you think about it, those exist across all the existing groups in english, including Orlesians. Leliana and Riordan don't sound like the other Orlesians. Oghren doesn't sound like Varric, Merrill doesn't sound like her tribe, Loghain doesn't sound like Alistair doesn't sound like Hawke doesn't sound like Sebastian, y'know? But unless you're talking about family members or people of the same social status from the same city, those kinds of accent variation make sense. Orlais is a large empire. I don't really expect people from all over the country to speak 'correct' Orlesian, just like I don't expect accent homogeneity in the real world. National accents are very broad generalizations.
I think Isolde's voice actress is actually English.
I'm not really convinced by the examples you brought up for accent disparities: Leliana and Riordan don't sound like the other Orlesians because their actors are actually French while the others are faking a French accent (I think Prosper and a couple of NPCs in Mark of the Assassin are also voiced by French people though), Varric and Oghren both have the general American accent that all dwarves have, Merrill's accent is different than her clan's because she originally came from a different clan, Loghain, Alistair and Hawke, who are all Fereldan, all sound to me like they have a RP English accent, and Sebastian, who has a Scottish accent, actually comes from Starkhaven. So apart from the retcon that the Sabrae clan now has Irish accents when they had an American one in DAO, they've been pretty consistent: people from Ferelden/Kirkwall have the same RP English accent, Orlesians have French accents, Antivans have Italian/Spanish accents etc.
It's not that I'm against using actual languages instead of having accented English, it's just that I'd rather they not do it at all than do it wrong. There are already a few things that bug me about their use of French: as mentioned above Madame de Fer is slightly off for 'Lady of Iron', the way they're saying 'Val Royeaux' is not the way you'd say it in French and in Asunder they say the marketplace in Val Royeaux is called 'Belle Marché' when it should be 'Beau Marché'. If they start using actual French for conversations and such it would bug me even more. At least this way I can overlook the mistakes because Orlesian isn't actually French.
It's not that I'm against using actual languages instead of having accented English, it's just that I'd rather they not do it at all than do it wrong. There are already a few things that bug me about their use of French: as mentioned above Madame de Fer is slightly off for 'Lady of Iron', the way they're saying 'Val Royeaux' is not the way you'd say it in French and in Asunder they say the marketplace in Val Royeaux is called 'Belle Marché' when it should be 'Beau Marché'. If they start using actual French for conversations and such it would bug me even more. At least this way I can overlook the mistakes because Orlesian isn't actually French.
Also, even French has evolved over the centuries. Someone from modern France would struggle to read some things written in early medieval French, and thats not even taking into account 'rival' regional French dialects that have largely died out over the centuries.
Also, even French has evolved over the centuries. Someone from modern France would struggle to read some things written in early medieval French, and thats not even taking into account 'rival' regional French dialects that have largely died out over the centuries.
Not so much "died out" as "were bludgeoned to death by Napoleon". Most French people didn't even speak French as recently as 250 years ago.
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