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[Uetap]

And then I find this..

 

• Dog: (Dog sniffs the air curiously.)
• Loghain: Oh, don't give me that face. I'm betting you want the cheese in my pocket.
• Dog: (He sits and waits patiently.)
• Loghain: Very well, here you go. Don't eat it all at once. Or... do, whichever you prefer.
• Loghain: I used to keep cheese in my pocket for Adalla too. I think the rinds were her favorite part.
• Loghain: I mentioned she was taken from us, did I not? This was when Orlais still ruled, and it was an Orlesian lordling who took her.
• Loghain: He wanted to mix the blood of our noble mabari with their frail, wasp-wasted game hounds, which were bred for looks, not intelligence.
• Loghain: I tried to keep her, but there was little I could do to stop the Orlesian... I wasn't even a man then.
• Loghain: You can imagine what it was like for her, being torn away from the boy--the family she was bonded to.
• Dog: (Long, low whine)
• Loghain: It was six months before we saw her again. The Orlesian returned her--and when I say "returned," I mean "pushed her out of his wagon."
• Loghain: She was skin and bone, and still carried the scars from where their pronged collars bit into her neck. She never quite recovered.
• Loghain: She passed away after a week. It was as though she held on long enough to come home to us. I held her head in my lap, and I believe she died happy.
• Dog: (Sad whine)

 

TEARS EVERYWHERE.

[Elhanan]

And then the boy grew up to someone that would kick some other poor soul out of his wagon. Still loathe him, but I do like the extended backstory.

[Zjarcal]

That banter is what started my love for Loghain... tears indeed.

[Si-Shen]

It's nice banter and shows he wasn't always a traitor, but that hardly makes up for him betraying his best friends son, considering the mother of the son was someone he claimed to have love as well.

[Jaison1986]

It's nice banter and shows he wasn't always a traitor, but that hardly makes up for him betraying his best friends son, considering the mother of the son was someone he claimed to have love as well.

 

This kind of stuff was never meant to make players forgive him for his actions. Just for us to sympathize with his character and see he is not entirely evil.

[gottaloveme]

People love their pets and Mabari's seem to be rather more inspirational with their bonding traits. It's an oldy but a goody - Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things. Loghain is human (?) with all the good and all the crap. Perhaps that story shows a parallel between Adalla and Anora (and no I am not equating Anora with a dog). Just that after the business was done and Adalla had served her purpose she was 'returned'. The whole thing with Eamon trying to persuade Cailan to 'return' Anora because there were no heirs.

 

I would cry with Loghain over his dog.

[TEWR]

The beauty of his banter with Dog is the symbolic value. The Mabari is representative of Ferelden and the horrid treatment of Loghain's Mabari by Orlesian hands is representative of how the Orlesian Occupation was very damaging to Ferelden overall (mostly at any rate, as Amaranthine prospered as a result of the Occupation).

[Althix]

why you hated him in the first place?..

 

and what makes a good man?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Overhearing those conversations between Loghain and Dog were what stopped my canon Warden from absolutely hating him. She still didn't like him, but it became harder to dislike him as much as she had.

[Jeffonl1]

So, he's nice to dogs. Doesn't stop him from deserting, sacrificing and selling his own people into slavery whenever it suits his own purpose.

Apparently dogs are so much better than people . No selling dogs to foreigners!

[Jaison1986]

So, he's nice to dogs. Doesn't stop him from deserting, sacrificing and selling his own people into slavery whenever it suits his own purpose.

 

Of course! After all we are all these moraly supperior deities that can't do no wrong. Funny because most people here wouldn't hesitate to turn into backstabbing snakes themselves if that means achieving their own agendas.

[dragonflight288]

So, he's nice to dogs. Doesn't stop him from deserting, sacrificing and selling his own people into slavery whenever it suits his own purpose.

 

Didn't stop my warden from practicing blood magic, saving the anvil of the void knowing full well people would be sacrificed upon it and killing Isolde for a blood magic ritual to save Connor, but I was nice to my dog. 

 

[ShadowLordXII]

Didn't stop my warden from practicing blood magic, saving the anvil of the void knowing full well people would be sacrificed upon it and killing Isolde for a blood magic ritual to save Connor, but I was nice to my dog. 

 

 

From a teleological standpoint, warden's still on better footing. The warden's actions were morally-questionable, but they lead to greater good: Blood magic can be a powerful weapon against the darkspawn; the Anvil of the void allows the ailing dwarves a better chance to regain their lost kingdoms; and sacrificing Isolde was done to save her son from a demon.

 

Loghain on the other hand. Everything that he did would've doomed Ferelden and handed it over to the darkspawn on a silver platter. His actions caused greater harm than good and that's before we even get into the moral-groundings of each decision he made after Ostagar.

 

But again, at least both were nice to their dogs.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

From a teleological standpoint, warden's still on better footing. The warden's actions were morally-questionable, but they lead to greater good: Blood magic can be a powerful weapon against the darkspawn; the Anvil of the void allows the ailing dwarves a better chance to regain their lost kingdoms; and sacrificing Isolde was done to save her son from a demon.

 

Loghain on the other hand. Everything that he did would've doomed Ferelden and handed it over to the darkspawn on a silver platter. His actions caused greater harm than good and that's before we even get into the moral-groundings of each decision he made after Ostagar.

 

It's easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight.

 

But without knowing whether or not each decision made by the Warden or Loghain would pay off, the rightness/wrongness of these decision is suddenly not so clear, given the Blight and military-necessary caused by it.

[knightlyEnigma]

For the record, Loghain did what he did because Cailin was handing his country over to the Orlesians on a silver platter. (play the return to Ostagar DLC, see what I mean.) He was distrustful of the grey wardens because they DID try to usurp the king in the past and (from my understanding) most of the grey wardens who were to fight at Ostagar were Orlesian. Remember this is the war hero who helped to drive the Orlesian tyrants away (probably because they apparently have no idea how to treat dogs. Oh and their tyrants that was probably a big reason as well.) Sure, he majorly screwed up. But come on, the guy was doing what he thought was best for his newly freed country. (Also, keep in mind that he didn't really think this was a blight.) And yes, he allowed elves to be sold to Tevinter, but I believe that was more an apathetic situation than one in which he was directly involved. He allowed Howe to live. . . because. . . well. . . uh. . . yeah I can't justify that one. Maybe he figured Howe was innocent or something? If I remember correctly, Howe told every the couslands were going to betray them all to Orlais or something, but thats all I got.

I've yet too allow Loghain to live (becase Alistair's wounded eyes make me feel extremely guilty) but I have never truly hated him. If anything, I kinda respect him for being so loyal to his country. (And daughter mind you. Seriously, go play the return to Ostagar DLC if you havn't.)

PS: That banter was beautiful and I'm now slightly prejudice against Orlesians.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

PS: That banter was beautiful and I'm now slightly prejudice against Orlesians.

If that's what did it, you must never have read the backstory behind Cauthrien's sword.

[Elhanan]

Sorry, but patriotism does not justify hating other nationalities, even ones that once the opposition. Hatred is a weed that requires little nourishment to grow, but may flourish if fed daily.

And I still contend that Loghain is one of the best, if not arguably the top villain in CRPG's.

[knightlyEnigma]

 

If that's what did it, you must never have read the backstory behind Cauthrien's sword.

I've never killed Cauthrien, never had too.

  

Sorry, but patriotism does not justify hating other nationalities, even ones that once the opposition. Hatred is a weed that requires little nourishment to grow, but may flourish if fed daily.And I still contend that Loghain is one of the best, if not arguably the top villain in CRPG's.

 
Nearly everybody does it in their own way. At least Loghain has a reason.

 

Maybe if I wasn't so ignorant of Loghains existence I may "consider" the value his life yields. Unfortunately, when someone sets out to kill me and my dog, either finish the job or I'll finish you.

 
A fine point.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

  I've never killed Cauthrien, never had too.

I've never had to either.

[Elhanan]

Nearly everybody does it in their own way. At least Loghain has a reason.

Hatred can be felt by nearly everyone, but should not act upon it, embrace it, nurture it, and/ or plan to rule a nation because of it. Having an excuse is no reason; justifying it in one's mind does not equate to justice. Am all for patriotism, but cannot support murder, slavery, and Loghain's other crimes that are crafted thru his hatred of Orlais.