252 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Not everyone, no, but I'm pretty sure an considerable number of people would have considered it. If people can recruit Zevran, Sten, and hell, even Velanna, I don't see why Loghain is an exception.

The game glosses over it, but being a Warden is actually a rather grim fate. You spend your life fighting and are fated to die young regardless of anything you can do, and you can't even have children. Meanwhile, the very thing you're fighting slowly eats up your health and your sanity from within. I'm often tempted to recruit Loghain just because Alistair is such an ass about it, as if being a Warden was a reward.

Also, from a Warden's perspective, killing Loghain is a waste. If you recruit him, you remove him from the position where he has done so much damage and gain an asset in your fight against the darkspawn.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Also, from a Warden's perspective, killing Loghain is a waste. If you recruit him, you remove him from the position where he has done so much damage and gain an asset in your fight against the darkspawn.

And from that position, he moves into your camp. Which you sleep in. It ends up working out pretty well, but I can't pretend the Warden isn't taking a huge leap of faith there.

[KaiserShep]

Actually, because of Alistair, the gain in an asset is negligible, because he either simply takes his place as king, removing him from the final battle altogether, or he either leaves or even gets executed as a result.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

True, though having the king off the battlefield is a large gain in and of itself. (Or at least it would be if it weren't for that whole "need to be Tainted to kill an Archdemon" thing.)

[Elhanan]

Jowan does not deserve a dog either. Lying and practicing Blood Magic while at the Circle gets him placed in prison, as well as his supposed love, and then chooses to poison someone for a chance at freedom. Meanwhile, chooses to teach a child how to use Blood magic, which is used to summon a demon that almost destroys the castle staff and nearby village. Etc.

If Jowan had a dog, it would likely end up as a creature of doom, or a sacrifice.

[Althix]

Still stupid of Jowan to have it in the first place, but just saying..

natural selection at work

[Elhanan]

Jowan is full of poor choices, as is Isolde, Loghain, Howe, etc. None of them help Ferelden that I recall.

And I agree that one should allow Loghain to live at least one playthrough to get a deeper understanding to him. But in no way do I believe he is justified in these poor decisions.

[KaiserShep]

True, though having the king off the battlefield is a large gain in and of itself. (Or at least it would be if it weren't for that whole "need to be Tainted to kill an Archdemon" thing.)

 

Depending on the other choices you make, having the king off the battlefield doesn't really matter a whole lot either, since Anora is the more experienced ruler.

[Xetykins]

Depending on the other choices you make, having the king off the battlefield doesn't really matter a whole lot either, since Anora is the more experienced ruler.

Looking at the end slide if they rule alone, Alistair is close behind anora whos most experience is mucking up horse shts. Iirc, i could be wrong. Plus his knack for interacting with the common people etc makes up for the difference ;-)

[KaiserShep]

Looking at the end slide if they rule alone, Alistair is close behind anora whos most experience is mucking up horse shts. Iirc, i could be wrong. Plus his knack for interacting with the common people etc makes up for the difference ;-)

Well, that's sort of why my ideal ending is to simply have him be king alongside her. I don't want to lose Alistair in the story, and I prefer Loghain be dead than he end up a wandering drunk.

[Jaison1986]

Well, that's sort of why my ideal ending is to simply have him be king alongside her. I don't want to lose Alistair in the story, and I prefer Loghain be dead than he end up a wandering drunk.

 

You can aways make him king too. That's what I did anyway. Part of me kind of feels like Loghain is just not that good with leadership roles. I noticed he is a lot less angry, bitter and misguided when he is actually following order. Less preassure I guess? I mean, look at how the fellow behaves in this video:

 

 

It's almost like he became an different person.

[Mike3207]

You can aways make him king too. That's what I did anyway. Part of me kind of feels like Loghain is just not that good with leadership roles. I noticed he is a lot less angry, bitter and misguided when he is actually following order. Less preassure I guess? I mean, look at how the fellow behaves in this video:
 
 
It's almost like he became an different person.

That's a video of the male Cousland married to Anora, not Alistair married to Anora. The dialogue confirms it.

[Jaison1986]

That's a video of the male Cousland married to Anora, not Alistair married to Anora. The dialogue confirms it.

 

that video was just an example. Loghain is just as friendly to the warden if you make Alistair king.

[Elhanan]

I like Alistair as King; make that choice much of the time when it is not the Warden himself. He may get grief at being emotional at the Landsmeet, but I would likely be as irate were I in those boots.

[dragonflight288]

Yeah I don't think Howe represents democracy either. lol. Not sure where he fits.

 

It's not a overwhelming thing I detect btw.. just a little nudge I get when playing the game. Especially when it comes to main plots/forced quests. Basically, it's like I'm supposed to feel bad if I do anything short of what Alistair and Eamon want. I'm supposed to feel dishonorable (at least until the Epilogue) if I side with Bhelen. And I'm supposed to mourn Cailan no matter what.

 

Funnily, in Cailan's case, even Loghain gets pissed at me if I let the darkspawn have his corpse. He still believes Cailan deserves respect, if only because a King is a symbol.

 

If you're referring to Return to Ostagar, he wants Loghain's body taken down, but not given a pyre. He prefers to leave Cailan's body to the wolves. When I said that he said "You wish is my command, in this case your command is my wish."

[dragonflight288]

And from that position, he moves into your camp. Which you sleep in. It ends up working out pretty well, but I can't pretend the Warden isn't taking a huge leap of faith there.

 

No more a leap of faith of inviting Zevren into camp, or Sten. And most of my wardens quickly thought Leliana was a spy because she had too many skills for a cloistered sister. 

[dragonflight288]

that video was just an example. Loghain is just as friendly to the warden if you make Alistair king.

 

It's true, he was quite pleasant to my Amell who made Alistair king. He appreciated the irony of being sent to Orlais to serve in the Wardens there as a way to keep him from interfering with Ferelden. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

No more a leap of faith of inviting Zevren into camp, or Sten. And most of my wardens quickly thought Leliana was a spy because she had too many skills for a cloistered sister. 

 

Shale is also a bit risky, for the same reasons as one might worry about with Sten.

[dragonflight288]

Shale is also a bit risky, for the same reasons as one might worry about with Sten.

 

True. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No more a leap of faith of inviting Zevren into camp, or Sten. And most of my wardens quickly thought Leliana was a spy because she had too many skills for a cloistered sister. 

That's a good point, though it's a better argument for not recruiting them than for recruiting Loghain.

[Xetykins]

On my first pt, I was more worried about morrigan in my camp than the rest. I think she's the only one that got forced in by the witch of the wild?? And shale because she sounded volatile. Wasnt worried about sten, he wishes to atone, and would have gladly accepted death in that cage. Hell he does not even want to get out of that cage even when I unlocked it. He knew he was wrong and didnt need anyone to beat him to pulp to realise that.

Zevran well, I think he was seriously fooked and needed the warden alive to help protect himself from the crows. So I think he would keep the warden alive.

Having said all that... did not mean I dont keep one eye open when I sleep. Theyre all crazy, except for dog.

[Deathsaurer]

It's true and I never said otherwise, mitigated responsibility is not the absence of any responsibility. Loghain would have more responsibility than Jowan, but as Jowan is the one who did the deed, he shares in the blame. 

 

I'm not sure why people dispute this little fact. Ah well. 

The impression you gave was they were equally at fault when that is clearly not the case. Jowan is responsible for setting events in motion but Loghain is legally at blame. Jowan was literally the perfect person to manipulate because:

 

Why use Jowan to poison Eamon? A blood mage apostate. A poor witness against Loghain in the Landsmeet if it comes to that.

The guy has no reason not to believe Loghain, everyone in the game expresses disbelief at what he is doing, and he is desperate because he got caught doing blood magic. Loghain knew exactly what to say to manipulate him, skillfully appealing to his nationalism and letting him infer a fresh start was on the table for serving his country. What's worse even if he refused best he could hope for was a quick death. Worst case is his family gets tortured to force him to comply. No one would believe his story unless they were actually victims of Loghain's actions because lol Blood Mage. He can't run and hide because the Templars have his blood AND Howe could just show up at his family as claim he thinks they know where Jowan was.

 

This is a horribly screwed up situation we'll never be able to find a real world analogue for. Everything waiting for him was a bad end and that's exactly what Loghain preyed upon. And 1 mistake was all it took to allow it.