302 réponses à ce sujet

[Mukora]

This also isn't the place to dredge up the ME3 debate again.

[The Elder King]

Lol @ people putting ME3 so low.
ME3 had the best gameplay and customization from the three and a story just as good as the first two. The last ten minutes from pre-EC don't define the whole game. Get over it already...

While i agree with some of your points, that's not an objective fact. People might not have liked the story/parts of the story , or the gameplay. There were plently of people that stated multiple reasons to dislike the game other then the endings.
For example, I really disliked how much autodialogue was present in ME3.

[Lebanese Dude]

While i agree with some of your points, that's not an objective fact. People might not have liked the story/parts of the story , or the gameplay. There were plently of people that stated multiple reasons to dislike the game other then the endings.
For example, I really disliked how much autodialogue was present in ME3.

The gameplay is a spitting image of ME2 with MORE combat options to make it less rigid. That is a markd improvement. The character and equipment customization options merged the ME2 and ME1 systems, again an improvement. If you liked those systems in the first two, you'll like the third.

Ill agree on the story though, as that is entirely subjective, but I didn't see a significant change in the way the story unfolded compared to the first two.

And as I said, no game is perfect. I didn't say ME3 was. It's just that people call it e worst game ever made, when that is very untrue, no matter how you look at the game. It was great, assuming you liked the previous Me games and RPGs in general.

[Mathias]

Well they fixed the ending, so that part is moot.

What else? Every game has its faults, but the amount of vitriol against ME3 is grossly disproportionate. It's an amazing game in its genre.

 

No it's not. It got fixed for some people including yourself, but the fundamental problems with the ending were still present. To me and many others, all Bioware did was make the endings less crappy.

 

The other problems people had with ME3 are as follows:

 

Overall drop in quality with the writing, with few exceptions.

Vast majority of choices that Bioware hyped up would make a big difference in ME3, ended up being nothing but numbers that added to your score.

War Asset system was a sound idea but the execution was not.

Kai Leng.

Harbinger, the one who antagonized you throughout ME2 and the most ancient Reaper, was reduced to nothing but a cameo.

Dialogue system was gutted like a fish.

Exploration was gutted like a fish.

Day 1 DLC with a Prothean.

Mistreatment of characters. Ash's extreme makeover and Jacob cheating on you, are examples.

Underwhelming final mission.

The introduction.

Eavesdropping scanning fetch quests.

Poorly designed Journal system.

Tali's face.

 

Those are the most notable. ME3 was a good game, but it had a lot of problems and didn't nearly live up to the hype or potential it had.

[Maraas]

For example, I really disliked how much autodialogue was present in ME3.

Because, as Mordin puts it, too many variables. Most of ME3 dialogue, interactive or not, is lines with differernt possible scenarios. For example:

Spoiler

Upon completing Ardat-Yakshi mission, when Shepard calls Cortez to bring the shuttle around, there are four or five different lines in play, depending on what happened to Samara (if she was present at all) and Falere. When Shepard reports back to the asari councillor, there are at least three different lines:
1) (Irissa, before Thessia) Should I assume you're our source within asari High Command?
2) (Tevos, before Thessia) That's why I've set off the bomb. There were no Ardat-Yakshi left.
3) (after Thessia): They won't be a problem anymore. [...] How's Thessia evacuation going?

So it's not really autodialogue, because it's your actions that determine how it plays out. Funny, but ME probably has more autodialogue disguised as full-fledged conversations. Just look at this:

Spoiler

Squadmate: I get the feeling something bad is about to happen.
Sovereign: You are not Saren.
Squadmate: Is this some kind of a VI?
Sovereign: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Squadmate: I do not think this is a VI.
Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): Sovereign isn't just some Reaper ship Saren found. It's an actual Reaper!
Sovereign: Reaper. A label created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, what they chose to call us is irrelevant. We simply are.
Squadmate: The Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago, you couldn't have been there, it's impossible!
Sovereign: Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation. An accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.
Shepard (paragon): There's an entire galaxy of races, united and ready to face you!
Shepard (neutral/renegade): Whatever your plan is it's going to fail. I'll make sure of that.
Sovereign: Confidence born of ignorance. The cycle cannot be broken.
Squadmate: Cycle? What cycle?
Sovereign: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they're extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. The did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They merely found them, the legacy of my kind.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): Why would you construct the mass relays, then leave them for someone else to find?
Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Squadmate: They're harvesting us! Letting us advance to the level they need, then wiping us out!
Shepard (investigative): What do you want from us? Slaves, resources?
Sovereign: My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation—independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.
Shepard (investigative): Where did you come from? Who built you?
Sovereign: We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure.
Shepard (investigative): Where are the rest of the Reapers? Are you the last of your kind?
Sovereign: We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): You're not even alive! Not really. You're just a machine, and machines can be broken!
Sovereign: Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction. Sovereign out. This exchange is over.

[Mathias]

Just a reminder, everyone - this is the Dragon Age forum. If you want to discuss other Bioware products (e.g. Mass Effect), please do so in the approriate venue. 

 

Well when someone makes a bold statement regarding another issue, I'm gonna respond. I have no interest in continuing the discussion and will stick the topic at hand, but Lebanese Dude's comment is something that I've heard many times before that irritates me to no end, and seeing how it's a topic I'm really passionate about, I have to make a comment.

[Maraas]

The other problems people had with ME3 are as follows

You see, the problem with those "problems" is they are actually mere statements without any basis whatsoever to prove the points in question. I understand it's easier to just blurt out something like that dialogue system was gutted or something. But if you're not backing up your words with the actual evidence, they ring a bit hollow, you know?

[The Elder King]

Because, as Mordin puts it, too many variables. Most of ME3 dialogue, interactive or not, is lines with differernt possible scenarios. For example:

Spoiler

Upon completing Ardat-Yakshi mission, when Shepard calls Cortez to bring the shuttle around, there are four or five different lines in play, depending on what happened to Samara (if she was present at all) and Falere. When Shepard reports back to the asari councillor, there are at least three different lines:
1) (Irissa, before Thessia) Should I assume you're our source within asari High Command?
2) (Tevos, before Thessia) That's why I've set off the bomb. There were no Ardat-Yakshi left.
3) (after Thessia): They won't be a problem anymore. [...] How's Thessia evacuation going?

So it's not really autodialogue, because it's your actions that determine how it plays out. Funny, but ME probably has more autodialogue disguised as full-fledged conversations. Just look at this:

Spoiler

Squadmate: I get the feeling something bad is about to happen.
Sovereign: You are not Saren.
Squadmate: Is this some kind of a VI?
Sovereign: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Squadmate: I do not think this is a VI.
Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): Sovereign isn't just some Reaper ship Saren found. It's an actual Reaper!
Sovereign: Reaper. A label created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, what they chose to call us is irrelevant. We simply are.
Squadmate: The Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago, you couldn't have been there, it's impossible!
Sovereign: Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation. An accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.Shepard (paragon): There's an entire galaxy of races, united and ready to face you!Shepard (neutral/renegade): Whatever your plan is it's going to fail. I'll make sure of that.
Sovereign: Confidence born of ignorance. The cycle cannot be broken.
Squadmate: Cycle? What cycle?
Sovereign: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they're extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. The did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They merely found them, the legacy of my kind.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): Why would you construct the mass relays, then leave them for someone else to find?
Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Squadmate: They're harvesting us! Letting us advance to the level they need, then wiping us out!
Shepard (investigative): What do you want from us? Slaves, resources?
Sovereign: My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation—independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.
Shepard (investigative): Where did you come from? Who built you?
Sovereign: We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure.
Shepard (investigative): Where are the rest of the Reapers? Are you the last of your kind?
Sovereign: We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom.
Shepard (paragon/neutral/renegade): You're not even alive! Not really. You're just a machine, and machines can be broken!
Sovereign: Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction. Sovereign out. This exchange is over.

Youre assuming I liked ME system. And no, ME3 still had a lot of autodialogue. There were plently of dialogues were what Shepard said didn't change based on your choices.

[Lebanese Dude]

I guys lets drop this in favor of talking about the interview.

Agree to disagree.

[Mathias]

You see, the problem with those "problems" is they are actually mere statements without any basis whatsoever to prove the points in question. I understand it's easier to just blurt out something like that dialogue system was gutted or something. But if you're not backing up your words with the actual evidence, they ring a bit hollow, you know?

 

So you wanted me to provide a detailed case for each one of those 14 points, in a thread that isn't Mass Effect related? Yeah, not gonna happen.

[KC_Prototype]

So....how about that interview on Dragon Age Inquisition?

[Aran Linvail]

So this topic its about the interview , turn into a Witcher VS Dragon Age and now go for Mass Effect 3 ? You guys know how to keep on topic , i give you that ...

[TheViper8234]

So this topic its about the interview , turn into a Witcher VS Dragon Age and now go for Mass Effect 3 ? You guys know how to keep on topic , i give you that ...

classic BSN 

[Maraas]

So....how about that interview on Dragon Age Inquisition?

About what now? How does this even...

 

Nevermind.

[KC_Prototype]

I guess we can say that Angry Joe is one of the better interviewers because he gets results from the guy he's asking questions. He asked the good and hard questions! 

[Lebanese Dude]

I guess we can say that Angry Joe is one of the better interviewers because he gets results from the guy he's asking questions. He asked the good and hard questions! 

 

He didn't seem that angry to me though

[deuce985]

I just hope we hear a lot more about the crafting and character creator soon. Me thinks Bioware is holding back on that to reveal at a later event. Story and characters are obviously the biggest thing for me but it was always my dream to see a modern Bioware game molded into an open-world with great customization options. This game is turning into exactly that based on everything I've seen. Playing their games for half my life has brought a lot of happiness to me so I can't wait to see what DAI does. Let's just hope I do not end up locked into my house and my personal life suffers because it's so good.

 

Oh hell, who I am kidding...I'm definitely locking myself in for a week to play this game. These experiences only happen once every few years so why not.

[deuce985]

I like this post. Kudos for using "me thinks" as well. Glad to know I'm not the only one who does that hehe.

 

I might break with tradition and get heavily involved in crafting this time around. The Frostbite 3 engine is so gorgeous, it's pretty hard to resist whiling away the hours creating intricate robes and armor.

 

I know this is looking really far ahead, but I wonder what kind of DLC  or expansions we are going to get. Origins had some great addons. I appreciated the way Awakening forced you to reflect on how politicking impinges upon the duties of a Grey Warden. And Golems of Amgarrak had immense appeal since I'm a fan of dungeon crawlers.

 

Any thoughts on multiplayer? I know that's a sensitive issue for a lot of people, myself included. If it means compromising the integrity of the main game, I'd rather that Bioware not include a multiplayer component. If they have time, however, something along the lines of Neverwinter Nights would be amazing. I would die for a toolset, but I know that's probably not going to happen.

 

I honestly don't think we're getting MP at this point. The online element will probably be Dragon's Keep and that's it. I'm fine by that. I don't mind MP if it doesn't compromise the SP game. I wouldn't mind Bioware finding some way in the future to create co-op experiences outside the main story so I can share my world with friends. I think that's something they might want to examine down the road and might be easier for them to do since they'll have all the main hard work done on the engine in this game. I don't think MP is necessary but I wouldn't mind it either. RPGs seem like the most anti-social genre when it comes to co-op.

[Sjpelke]

It's not really that surprising. DA:O and DA2, on PC at least, are different in 'feel', particularly in the low to medium difficulty settings. The first one does more or less enforce a tactical approach a lot of the time, the second only occasionally. I 'hacked & slashed' my way through most of DA2.

I can't comment on the console versions.

This is probably also the main worry of many players who like things to be 'tactical'; that the presence or absence of the camera is just an extra but not really necessary, meaning DA:I is effectively an action game. That you can play the game tactically is of relatively little value if it turns out to be mostly 'unnecessary extra effort for no extra gain'.

 

But this is something we'll only find out once people have played the game extensively.

 

I have enjoyed DA2 but loved DAO.

 

Quoting the above post because of the tactical view that is mentioned there.

DA2 did not need it, except for two big fights during the endgame if I remember correctly. Overall DA2 was more hack and slash without having any need for tactical view.

 

If DAI is going back to the roots of DAO, being more slow paced, as in actually having to need some sort of strategy when it comes to the fights, I would be thrilled. RPG is a general term which has overlap with action games but....I hope BW will stay in the corner of the RPG since there really are not made that many.

 

For me a good game has replay value. The fact that DAI will have choices that matter and will really make a different ending, is something that is a BIG plus for me.

[Saberchic]

That was a pretty good interview. I like that they are meshing the combat systems of DAO and DA2. I also like the way it seems like they are implementing the open world concept, but I think I'll have to actually get my hands on the game to see how well that pans out.

 

I hope someone does an interview soon with crafting and such. I'd like to see if it's going to be a good component of the game.