79 réponses à ce sujet

[fhs33721]

You are correct, I'm hard pressed to think of a game with as much replayability as a Bioware game, ME3 and DA2 being the exceptions.

 

However, in terms of quality, there are lots of games out there I would put up against even the best of Bioware's titles: Skyrim, Dark Souls, Fallout, Persona (Shin Megami Tensei), Lost Odyssey.

 

 

ME3 actually has quite a lot of replay value. I've played 6 playtroughs or something and still discovered new dialouge and stuff in the last one.

 

Also quality is kind of subjective here. While games like Skyrim and Darksouls may have high quality, it is an entirely different kind of quality. Skyrims strenghts for example lie in the big open world and the freedom for the player to do pretty much anything s/he wants. On the other hand it's story is a joke, there isn't one single memorable character in the entire game and the combat is some of the worst I've ever expierienced. The story of even the worst Bioware game is better than the one of Skyrim.

Dark souls selling point is it's extremely hard but brilliant gameplay but it doesn't offer much else.

 

As someone who plays games mostly for the story and characters  Skyrim is to me ineed of inferior quality to any Bioware game.

[FraQ]

ME3 actually has quite a lot of replay value. I've played 6 playtroughs or something and still discovered new dialouge and stuff in the last one.

Dark souls selling point is it's extremely hard but brilliant gameplay but it doesn't offer much else.

 

As someone who plays games mostly for the story and characters  Skyrim is to me ineed of inferior quality to any Bioware game.

 

ME3's re-playability is subjective. A lot of people on these boards love the game and have played through it multiple times, others played through it once and never touched it again. I Personally thought that it had zero replay value and worse yet, ruined the replay value of ME1 and ME2. To each their own though.

 

Dark Souls can be a difficult game but it's never unfair. When you die in that series it's because of mistakes that you made while playing it, in my case it was usually because of impatience. I do disagree that it's difficulty is it's only selling point though, as my favorite part of that series is it's setting.

 

Everything in Dark Souls has a story behind it: every character, every boss, every location, and every item. These stories are almost always tragic and in a way I find difficult to explain, they are beautiful. Maybe it's the way that the developers slowly dole out the information. *shrug*

 

The difference is that in Bioware's games the characters tell you their stories, whereas in Dark Souls games you have to piece each character's story together slowly over time.

 

No argument on Skyrim. The appeal of that game has nothing to do with it's story or characters.

 

Since the original Baldurs Gate days, I've always said that Bioware makes the best characters and the best stories. However lately I've been realizing that there are plenty of games out there who's characters and stories are just as good if not better than Bioware's.

 

The most jarring example of this is Obsidian Entertainment, a company known for playing second fiddle to Bioware. They made KoTOR 2, a game I now firmly believe has a better story and better characters than KoTOR 1. They also made Neverwinter Nights 2 with the same results.

 

Again this is all subjective.

[fhs33721]

The most jarring example of this is Obsidian Entertainment, a company known for playing second fiddle to Bioware. They made KoTOR 2, a game I now firmly believe has a better story and better characters than KoTOR 1. They also made Neverwinter Nights 2 with the same results.

 

Again this is all subjective.

 

I've never played neverwinter nights so I'll take your word on that one.

 

However KOTOR 2 in the original release form was probably the worst gaming expierence I ever had. It was a barely playable, buggy mess that made me want to punch my PC. I had to restart from a save before Nar Shadda twice because of some game breaking bugs that prevented me from leaving Nar Shadda.

Also it randomly skipped entire cutscenes at times leaving me to wonder what was going on all of a sudden.

The story was a complete mess that in many instances didn't make any sense (The mod that restored some contet made it much better but still Obsidian failed at storytelling if a mod is needed to make sense of their game.)

During the last hour of gameplay the most important question was: "What the hell is happening?" And then the planet just blew with no explanation whatsoever about what happend to G0T0 and that other Droid. Seriously what was there of the story was quite good, but as it was it was way too unfinished and it didn't just feel like there was something missing.

 

I'll agree though that Kreia was a stronger character than anyone from KOTOR. The others however wern't any better in my opinion. Three of them even were from the first game.

[FraQ]

 

Seriously what was there of the story was quite good, but as it was it was way too unfinished and it didn't just feel like there was something missing.

 

I'll agree though that Kreia was a stronger character than anyone from KOTOR. The others however wern't any better in my opinion. Three of them even were from the first game.

 

I've been meaning to play through that game using the mod that adds and or restores all the content that was missing. I haven't gotten around to it as of yet. I'll have to get my hands on a copy of the PC version first, I've only ever played the original xbox version.

 

Really? I thought Atton and Brianna were waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Carth and Bastilla. The only character I liked from the original more than their KoTOR 2 counterpart was Mission Vao and it's REALLY close! Mira probably would have won out if all her content was there.

[fhs33721]

I've been meaning to play through that game using the mod that adds and or restores all the content that was missing. I haven't gotten around to it as of yet. I'll have to get my hands on a copy of the PC version first, I've only ever played the original xbox version.

 

Really? I thought Atton and Brianna were waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Carth and Bastilla. The only character I liked from the original more than their KoTOR 2 counterpart was Mission Vao and it's REALLY close! Mira probably would have won out if all her content was there.

 I played female and didn't get Brianna, but I found Mical boring. Atton is ok I guess but personally didn't strike me as that much better. On the other hand it has been some time since I played the game. I just can't bring myself to risk setting foot on Nar Shadda again.

[Vegeta 77]

Da2, Me3 are great games but if your unsure just wait until it gets a price drop. But if you don´t trust bioware cause of mistakes in the past well you can jog on nobody perfect get over it.

[Helios969]

ME3 is by far my favorite game...and yes, I despise the ending.  I do not know how many playthroughs I have, but I have logged over 1200 hours in the single player.  It's the only game I've mastered enough to play through on insanity and actually did some multiplayer (which I never do.)

 

DA2 I played months after ME3 came out in part because of all the posters who said it was a horrible, irredeemable game.  My first impression was "this isn't a great game, but it's far from terrible."  And the more I play it the more I get out of it...and the combat is also quite fun.  Yeah, ridiculous reuse of dungeons and the inability to affect any sort of change to the numerous tragedies that befall our Hawke's is quite annoying.

 

I can tell just by the small amount of demo footage that I'll be playing DAI nonstop for the next 2 years...right up until the next ME installment gets released.

 

I really wish there were other gaming companies that would give me a VA character, a host of companions to take on missions and control during combat, a story-focused RPG (so I don't end up wandering aimlessly all over the place like Skyrim,) and an intelligent and interesting combat system to explore.

[TheWhitefire]

ME3 is an excellent game with great story telling, voice acting and character development. The endings weren't great, but they weren't any worse than the Deus Ex endings. I think people were just chapped because it was kind of a subpar ending after 90+ hours of gameplay across 3 games.

If you're going to talk about how great ME1 is and how terrible DAII is, check yourself mate. ME1 reused dungeons at least as much and sloppily as DA2 did. The only significant difference is that DA2 made the stupid mistake of reusing dungeons for main story quests, where ME1 didn't. However, consider the time constraints on the DAII team, and take a look at the absolutely fantastic dungeons and settings in the DLCs. If you're worried about the dungeons, those DLCs alone should put you at ease.

ME3 is a fantastic game. Fantastic. It just had the misfortune of having a subpar ending. The game play, the level design, the character development were all amazing, even the way in which they brought in decisions from previous games and let them have major effects on the story of the current game.

DA:I is not the end of a series. It is an installment in an ongoing series that doesn't look to be ending any time soon, so the pressure that people erroneously placed on the end of Mass Effect 3 is not there. DA:I also has had a very, very long time to be much more polished and to have much better level design and more bugs ironed out than DA2 did. So any concerns about the game being buggy or reusing dungeons can be set aside. That's not gonna happen to DA:I.

End of the day, it's your money to spend how you like. But don't judge a game based on two mistakes one (rather small, I might add) company made.

[Deebo305]

I honestly feel like I'm the only guy who has no problem with DA2 and ME3 on BSN. Not saying they were perfect but far from bad but hey if you like DAI now then welcome

[SnakeCode]

I love Bioware, and i've (for the most part) enjoyed everything of theirs that i've played. Jade Empire, ME2 and DA:O being my own personal highlights.

 

That being said, i'm not going to defend them just for the sake of defending them. Imo, DA2 was just an objectively bad game. The graphics varied from mediocre to terrible. The combat was tedious, dull and unfulfilling, re-used textures and areas was overdone to the point that it became laughable (seriously, if it was any company but Bioware the fans wouldn't have let them get away with this.) Even the lauded writing was incredibly patchy. Unlikeable characters, not much in the way of plot, all three acts were completely unrelated. It gave the illusion of choice, in that you could make different choices, but ultimately none of them mattered as they all boiled down to the same conclusion. Not to mention other things, like a lot of the voice acting was terrible (I still can't believe DA2 gets praised for the VA. Seriously, compare it to something like The Last Of Us or Uncharted and it's laughable.) It's STILL broken, It crashes in act 3 ever since I installed the MoTA DLC, and corrupts the save data.

 

Of course it does some things well, for those who are looking to have same sex relationships and/or play as a female protagonist, then the game delivers in full. If that's all you're looking for in a game then DA2 is going to be a very enjoyable, but if you want the actual core gaming experience beyond that to be just as good, then maybe you won't enjoy it quite so much.

 

In short, I think DA2 is by far the worst game Bioware have released, it's kind of ridiculous that this shoddy mess was released as a AAA title. But it's just one bad game amonst many great Bioware titles as far as i'm concerned.

 

Having said that, DA2 is the only Bioware title I didn't really enjoy, I found NWN, Jade Empire, KOTOR and the ME trilogy to be immensely enjoyable. DA:I looks incredible from what we've seen so far. It's probably going to be the first Dragon Age title that I pre-order.

[Xilizhra]

I love Bioware, and i've (for the most part) enjoyed everything of theirs that i've played. Jade Empire, ME2 and DA:O being my own personal highlights.

 

That being said, i'm not going to defend them just for the sake of defending them. Imo, DA2 was just an objectively bad game. The graphics varied from mediocre to terrible. The combat was tedious, dull and unfulfilling, re-used textures and areas was overdone to the point that it became laughable (seriously, if it was any company but Bioware the fans wouldn't have let them get away with this.) Even the lauded writing was incredibly patchy. Unlikeable characters, not much in the way of plot, all three acts were completely unrelated. It gave the illusion of choice, in that you could make different choices, but ultimately none of them mattered as they all boiled down to the same conclusion. Not to mention other things, like a lot of the voice acting was terrible (I still can't believe DA2 gets praised for the VA. Seriously, compare it to something like The Last Of Us or Uncharted and it's laughable.) It's STILL broken, It crashes in act 3 ever since I installed the MoTA DLC, and corrupts the save data.

 

Of course it does some things well, for those who are looking to have same sex relationships and/or play as a female protagonist, then the game delivers in full. If that's all you're looking for in a game then DA2 is going to be a very enjoyable, but if you want the actual core gaming experience beyond that to be just as good, then maybe you won't enjoy it quite so much.

 

In short, I think DA2 is by far the worst game Bioware have released, it's kind of ridiculous that this shoddy mess was released as a AAA title. But it's just one bad game amonst many great Bioware titles as far as i'm concerned.

 

Having said that, DA2 is the only Bioware title I didn't really enjoy, I found NWN, Jade Empire, KOTOR and the ME trilogy to be immensely enjoyable. DA:I looks incredible from what we've seen so far. It's probably going to be the first Dragon Age title that I pre-order.

DA2 did have some issues with choice, but I cannot agree that the characters were unlikeable; for me, the characters are the game's main draw. That, and being able to participate in certain social quandaries to a greater extent than was possible in DAO. I also found the gameplay more fun than in DAO, so there's that.

[SnakeCode]

DA2 did have some issues with choice, but I cannot agree that the characters were unlikeable; for me, the characters are the game's main draw. That, and being able to participate in certain social quandaries to a greater extent than was possible in DAO. I also found the gameplay more fun than in DAO, so there's that.

As I said, it was good in that it allowed the player to do things that aren't usually available in games (like same sex relationships.) Disagree about the gameplay being more fun than Origins though, for me the combat especially, felt like a chore, like I had to grind through it to get to the next conversation. In a game with so much combat, that's not a feeling that I want to have. I didn't feel like that with Origins, though I appreciate that some certainly did.

 

I probably should have stated that I didn't find all of the characters unlikeable, but I did find a good majority to be so, and a good deal more of them I found myself to be completely indifferent towards.

 

I liked- Hawke, Varric, Cassandra, Aveline, Gamlen, Flemeth, Meredith and Cullen.

 

Literally everybody else fits into "unlikeable" or "indifferent about" for me.

[Helios969]

^Snakecode: Yeah, I've never preordered a game before, but definitely will for DAI.  I've played everything you mentioned save Jade Empire (somehow missed that one.)  KOTOR was my first...and I was just enthralled with the game.  It wasn't until Origins that I even became aware that all my favorite games up to that point had been made my the same company.  I think it's a combination of gameplay and storytelling that just blows away the competition.  I find their games incredibly intuitive to play through, unlike so many other games that I end up frustrated with because of the lack of in-game guidance or just having to walk vast distances...yeah, they have 120 hours of gameplay, but half of it is just wandering between destinations fighting random monsters (no thanks).  I like some sidequests if story relevant, but hate games that just load up on pointless fetchquests in order to make a game bigger.  You're probably right that DA2 is the worst of all their releases, although I don't think so highly of the original ME game.  But I'm still playing DA2, with a dozen or so playthroughs completed.  So what...maybe 80-90 bucks for the game and DLCs?  With a few hundred hours of entertainment.  I'd say I got my moneys worth.

 

At the end of the day everyone has their own definition of a great gaming experience.  I cannot really tell anyone whether they should preorder.  I'd say if you're obsessed like me with Bioware games, definitely.  If you're still angry after these past few years about DA2 and ME3 you should hold off.  You do not really sacrifice anything by waiting a few weeks to hear player reviews.

[Xilizhra]

As I said, it was good in that it allowed the player to do things that aren't usually available in games (like same sex relationships.) Disagree about the gameplay being more fun than Origins though, for me the combat especially, felt like a chore, like I had to grind through it to get to the next conversation. In a game with so much combat, that's not a feeling that I want to have. I didn't feel like that with Origins, though I appreciate that some certainly did.

 

I probably should have stated that I didn't find all of the characters unlikeable, but I did find a good majority to be so, and a good deal more of them I found myself to be completely indifferent towards.

 

I liked- Hawke, Varric, Cassandra, Aveline, Gamlen, Flemeth, Meredith and Cullen.

 

Literally everybody else fits into "unlikeable" or "indifferent about" for me.

Oh, I was indifferent towards a fair few people, but I'm fine with that; I almost always feel that way and I only need a few people I like passionately to enjoy the game (which in my case actually was most of the party, with the exceptions of Fenris and Sebastian).

[Elhanan]

I used to not pre-order games much at all (believe it was two or three games in total), but since I chose not to drive any more, this makes shopping more problematic. But DAI has been an easy call for me anyway; have been awaiting the story continuation for some time, and this may be the FRPG I have been anticipating for years: a story driven game with tactical exploration.

That said, I love Skyrim; one of my fave games of this century, but it is lighter on story and dialogue. Also, Bioware may be the only games where I actually utilize followers; normally choose to go it alone. But the witty banter, tactics, AI, and NPC pathing are much better than so many others. IMO, of course.

[Helios969]

Xilizhra:  Are you crazy, Fenris was the greatest!  Just kidding.  I'm the same, a couple I gravitate toward, a few indifferent, and occasionally one or two I just can't stand.  I'd say the only DA2 character I couldn't deal with was Anders...Even when roleplaying 100% for mages and absolute hatred of Templars.  Probably my most deliciously fun playthrough was my mage-hating mage.  Ah, the absolute hypocrisy:)

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I honestly feel like I'm the only guy who has no problem with DA2 and ME3 on BSN. Not saying they were perfect but far from bad but hey if you like DAI now then welcome

I enjoyed ME3 & DA2 alot & the hate they get is way overblown, they might have been rushed but they weren't terrible. ME1 was the worst game from BW imo, alot of bad VO's, bad controls, worst dialogue system in the ME series with usually just 3 versions of saying the exact same thing, the worst inventory ive ever personally used in a game, & the overused mako parts that get incredibly tedious very quickly. It seems sometimes that some people act like ME1 was so awesome just cos it was made before EA took over BW.

[davidselite737]

Pre Ordering next pay period... I will be honest I love Bioware's ability to captivate me every damn time and the universe surrounding Thedas is outstading.. I've went to sleep many times just reading the codex. All the books are amazing and great fill in with the story line. ME3 I cry every damn time I have to pray over Thane... my wife laughs at me till I made a movie of the cutscenes. Now she cries too lol. 

 

Yes, I think this game will have its issues as all of them do. But I believe it will be an epic story just like all Bioware's material always is.

 

Congrats and take my money, I'm sure I'll be happy

[BlazinAces30]

I have pre-order the deluxe edition for xbox one and for the xbox 360

I have also paid both copies in full

I have played both DA games countless times and I like both games equally

I have no problems with the ME series either

 

sure all games have problems 

but I don't have any problems with any of the small issues expect the reuse of maps in DA:2 which I don't let get to me where I won't play the game

 

I know what I like and will continue to buy DA ages down the line 

 

It is totally up to you as the buyer if you will pre-order, buy on day 1, or wait for the price to drop 

 

just as everyone has already stated

[Adanu]

Wait, they've released the full 45 minute demo? I've only managed to find the ones cut down to ten and twenty minutes!

 

This. Someone show me where the OP found this, because I can't find the video anywhere.

[Texhnolyze101]

My opinion is still the same as it was before. I will get DA:I in a year or 2 when its 30 or 20 bucks.

[myahele]

I am going to get it day 1 (or sooner if they ship it early) mainly because I want to experience a bioware game as blind as possible. I already spoiled the overall plot of DAO, DA2 and the Mass Effect series.

 

I have recently bought the Mass Effect Trilogy since its on sale. I am still on the 1st game and have logged over 30 hrs simply doing side missions and I havent touched the main plot yet.

 

For me, DA2 wasn't a terrible rpg...but it certainly was a bad sequel if you compared it to DAO. Makes me think that maybe they planned for Hawke to become the Inquisitor?

[Raikas]

I love Bioware, and i've (for the most part) enjoyed everything of theirs that i've played. Jade Empire, ME2 and DA:O being my own personal highlights.
 
That being said, i'm not going to defend them just for the sake of defending them. Imo, DA2 was just an objectively bad game. The graphics varied from mediocre to terrible. The combat was tedious, dull and unfulfilling, re-used textures and areas was overdone to the point that it became laughable (seriously, if it was any company but Bioware the fans wouldn't have let them get away with this.) Even the lauded writing was incredibly patchy. Unlikeable characters, not much in the way of plot, all three acts were completely unrelated. It gave the illusion of choice, in that you could make different choices, but ultimately none of them mattered as they all boiled down to the same conclusion. Not to mention other things, like a lot of the voice acting was terrible (I still can't believe DA2 gets praised for the VA. Seriously, compare it to something like The Last Of Us or Uncharted and it's laughable.) It's STILL broken, It crashes in act 3 ever since I installed the MoTA DLC, and corrupts the save data.
 

Eh, judgements bat the VA quality or likeability of the characters aren't things that can be measured objectively - just as many people like (or even love) those. Ditto the dullness of the combat - that's about taste. Sure, there are issues with DA2 that are objectively off - the reused environments and textures and bugs - but lumping matters of taste in with those doesn't make the point any stronger.

I'm all for hating what you hate (I liked DA2 despite its issues, and there have been games with great reviews that just don't engage me), so I'm not at all trying to convince you to change your opinion, but I don't see why people want to lump personal preferences in with actual flaws in a game.

[TheWhitefire]

Yeah, I have to say if you think DA2's combat was "tedious and unfulfilling", then I'm not sure how DA:O's is any better, which was the same system minus the excitement factor of DA2's system.

The graphics were bad not because of low res textures (from what I can tell, they weren't any more low res than the textures in DA:O) but beause Kirkwall and pretty much everywhere else you visit is just so... brown. But that's a matte of taste. I mostly found the scenery to be really dull and boring, and the same can be said of pretty much all the scenery in Mass Effect 1, a game people praise as being one of the best Bioware produced, but only ranges from hospital-like and sanitized (the Citadel) to a dull dusty brown (Literally every planet you land on, save Noveria). That game also reused a lot of dungeons, particularly for the side missions, and it did not hide it well. It was even lazier than the reused dungeons in DA:2, which at least let you enter from different directions.

[dragonflight288]

I've never played neverwinter nights so I'll take your word on that one.

 

However KOTOR 2 in the original release form was probably the worst gaming expierence I ever had. It was a barely playable, buggy mess that made me want to punch my PC. I had to restart from a save before Nar Shadda twice because of some game breaking bugs that prevented me from leaving Nar Shadda.

Also it randomly skipped entire cutscenes at times leaving me to wonder what was going on all of a sudden.

The story was a complete mess that in many instances didn't make any sense (The mod that restored some contet made it much better but still Obsidian failed at storytelling if a mod is needed to make sense of their game.)

During the last hour of gameplay the most important question was: "What the hell is happening?" And then the planet just blew with no explanation whatsoever about what happend to G0T0 and that other Droid. Seriously what was there of the story was quite good, but as it was it was way too unfinished and it didn't just feel like there was something missing.

 

I'll agree though that Kreia was a stronger character than anyone from KOTOR. The others however wern't any better in my opinion. Three of them even were from the first game.

 

I found out through research that Obsidian cut a lot of the ending content out, from HK-47 finding the factory on Telos that was producing the HK-50 droids, Kreia manipulating your love interest and the their opposite (Handmaiden/Visas or Disciple/Atton) to fight each other on Malachor, GOTO's content was cut at the end as well, simply because the time for the release date was coming on fast and rather than delay it, they decided to cut content (probably due to a lot of pressure from LucasArts.)

 

That cut content really messed up the ending for me, but I did love the whole track down the Jedi who exiled me and either kill them or gather them together. Although I wish Atris showed up on Dantooine because if you play lightside and use the right dialogue, Atris is the one who tells you to track them down because you offered to help, and then later acts as if you never bothered offering aid, again, likely cut content.