30 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

Obviously transfers wont work cross-gen but there's always the Mass Effect way, later on down the line, of giving you the option of choosing how big choices were resolved.

 

Such as the fate of Anders in DA2 would be pretty important, no?

[Elhanan]

As The Keep will allow one to create and/ or re-create those decisions, the answer is Yes. If you are speaking of installing past saves, this is probably not; maybe at best.

[AlanC9]

Even if they read the saves, you'd still have to manually review the decisions because several important decisions were not stored correctly. Given that, and the console generation shift, I wouldn't be surprised if Bio doesn't bother trying to read the save files.

[Leliana-is-dead]

I've heard some Troubling news on this front, which is actually the reason for my name.

 

Basically, David Gaider, my least favourite writer in Bioware, said that it doesn't matter if you kill Lellana in Dragon Age origins. Even if she is killed directly by the Warden at the ashes, even if you decapitate her, she, apparently, totally prepared for this and fakes her death exquisitely.

 

So, it seems that any choices that interfere with some popular characters my be ignored.

 

Including if you kill that terrorist SOB.

[Deflagratio]

I've heard some Troubling news on this front, which is actually the reason for my name.

 

 

You need a forum avatar that has a headless Leliana (preferably in-game capture) before I take anything you say seriously. Hop to it!

[Leliana-is-dead]

You need a forum avatar that has a headless Leliana (preferably in-game capture) before I take anything you say seriously. Hop to it!

Nah, I like Hargreave. He's a better illusive man then the illusive man

 

oh and here:

 

If you were wondering

[xXxshemlifexXx]

I liked Gaider's twitter tantrums better.

 the "all criticism of my writing makes you an entitled dummyhead" ones with the internet definitions

 

comedy gold

[Leliana-is-dead]

I liked Gaider's twitter tantrums better.

 the "all criticism of my writing makes you an entitled dummyhead" ones with the internet definitions

 

comedy gold

Oh god yeah those are funny.

 

And his self made definitions of stuff like Retcon etc

[AkiKishi]

I saw the parody that RPGCodex made of the character reveals, that was hysterical. 

[wolfhowwl]

I liked Gaider's twitter tantrums better.

 the "all criticism of my writing makes you an entitled dummyhead" ones with the internet definitions

 

comedy gold

 

Yeah, time for PR to get a muzzle.

[In Exile]

I've heard some Troubling news on this front, which is actually the reason for my name.

 

Basically, David Gaider, my least favourite writer in Bioware, said that it doesn't matter if you kill Lellana in Dragon Age origins. Even if she is killed directly by the Warden at the ashes, even if you decapitate her, she, apparently, totally prepared for this and fakes her death exquisitely.

 

So, it seems that any choices that interfere with some popular characters my be ignored.

 

Including if you kill that terrorist SOB.

 

Man, if only something like that also happened in DA:O directly. Like, say, maybe decapitating Zevran in your first meeting and then having him attach it back for the cutscene. Or decapitating Howe. Or decapitating Loghain. That would mean this combat animation is totally irrelevant. But obviously something like that couldn't happen. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Man, if only something like that also happened in DA:O directly. Like, say, maybe decapitating Zevran in your first meeting and then having him attach it back for the cutscene. Or decapitating Howe. Or decapitating Loghain. That would mean this combat animation is totally irrelevant. But obviously something like that couldn't happen.

It would mean that combat animation was at least occasionally irrelevant, which would make in-character combat decision-making extremely difficult.

Or maybe it would mean that these games shouldn't have cutscenes.

[In Exile]

It would mean that combat animation was at least occasionally irrelevant, which would make in-character combat decision-making extremely difficult.

Or maybe it would mean that these games shouldn't have cutscenes.

 

We have lots of proof combat animations are often irrelevant, cf. the cutscene death for Duncan and Cailan vs. fighting an ogre in regular gameplay. 

 

I agree with you that the game's cutscenes (if they exist) should correspond closely to what you can otherwise do in the game, but RPGs have serious problems with that because they either need to jettison their ruleset for something closely approaching reality or otherwise adapt their world to basically be like the world from Order of the Stick. 

[Leliana-is-dead]

We have lots of proof combat animations are often irrelevant, cf. the cutscene death for Duncan and Cailan vs. fighting an ogre in regular gameplay. 

 

I agree with you that the game's cutscenes (if they exist) should correspond closely to what you can otherwise do in the game, but RPGs have serious problems with that because they either need to jettison their ruleset for something closely approaching reality or otherwise adapt their world to basically be like the world from Order of the Stick. 

 

A D&D video game set in the Stick universe would be great

[Sylvius the Mad]

We have lots of proof combat animations are often irrelevant, cf. the cutscene death for Duncan and Cailan vs. fighting an ogre in regular gameplay. 

 

I agree with you that the game's cutscenes (if they exist) should correspond closely to what you can otherwise do in the game, but RPGs have serious problems with that because they either need to jettison their ruleset for something closely approaching reality or otherwise adapt their world to basically be like the world from Order of the Stick. 

OotS would be a wonderful model.  The sequence where Roy dies, spends some time dead, and then is Raised does this brilliantly.  Death is an inconvenience for people with means.

 

And the DAO deathblows were a terrible idea overall.  In addition to creating these narrative inconsistencies, they badly interfered with the timing of attacks in combat.

[In Exile]

OotS would be a wonderful model.  The sequence where Roy dies, spends some time dead, and then is Raised does this brilliantly.  Death is an inconvenience for people with means.

 

And the DAO deathblows were a terrible idea overall.  In addition to creating these narrative inconsistencies, they badly interfered with the timing of attacks in combat.

 

Order of the Stick is the example I always use to point out how a well-executed RPG world actually aware of its own rules would function. Regardless of whatever else it does, the series has to be praised for the excellent way in which the ruleset is executed. 

 

While I agree with you on the problem with deathblows narrative wise, I actually think the timing aspect was an unintentional highlight of realism. The problem with melee combat IRL is grappling - this is especially the case when outnumbered. Frequently triggered deathblows in DA:O made mobs dangerous again, because characters couldn't engage them on equal terms. 

[Steelcan]

yes, the Keep will in someway alow us to shape the state of the world, how detailed it is and what decisions will be important remains to be seen

[9TailsFox]

I've heard some Troubling news on this front, which is actually the reason for my name.

 

Basically, David Gaider, my least favourite writer in Bioware, said that it doesn't matter if you kill Lellana in Dragon Age origins. Even if she is killed directly by the Warden at the ashes, even if you decapitate her, she, apparently, totally prepared for this and fakes her death exquisitely.

 

So, it seems that any choices that interfere with some popular characters my be ignored.

 

Including if you kill that terrorist SOB.

You didn't kill Leliana. Kill animations not equal story. After Alistair cut off Zevran head, Zevran begged me not to kill him.

[xXxshemlifexXx]

You didn't kill Leliana. Kill animations not equal story. After Alistair cut off Zevran head, Zevran begged me not to kill him.

It's hard to say exactly what is and isn't story since the writers disregard in-game events such as killing lelly or turning Anders over without recruiting him in Awakening, as well as epilogue events like Anders being either dead/considering the wardens his true home or Cullen snapping and killing a bunch of apprentices

 

So safe to say, nothing in the game equals story \(`~`)

[wolfhowwl]

Sometimes it makes me wonder why they bother with save importing at all.

[TurretSyndrome]

So safe to say, nothing in the game equals story \(`~`)

 

Story in the game equals story, no more no less. The death of Leliana was actually acknowledged, just not in the way people expected it to. It's just combat mechanics =/ = story. For example, Loghain's beheading was not a combat mechanic, it's story-made based on your choice to behead him. So if Loghain was brought back from that, it would be a retcon, but as far as Leliana goes, it's only "you think you killed her" not "you killed her for sure". 

 

The biggest inconsistency in the game to me, something I am curious how it will be handled, is events in Asunder vs the characters who existed in both the book and Origins. 

 

*Asunder Spoilers*

 

In Asunder, Wynne knows the Warden, and as a result, Shale, who she could have only met if the Warden spared and recruited her. If the Warden did not recruit her and killed her the first time he/she met Wynne at the tower, then how would Asunder's events have taken place? If we assume Wynne survived her death at the tower(which would be a second time), it still doesn't explain how she knows Shale. Not to mention, what if Shale was killed in the game as well or never met the Warden and was never activated? Even if both survived, there's still the matter of Shale being acquainted with Wynne. 

 

Should we assume that both Wynne and Shale rise from the dead like Anders and Leliana as well or should we just take Asunder characters' appearance and role as a direct consequence of Bioware's default Warden and no one else's? If it's Bioware's default Warden's choices only, then what about the events that took place at the White Spire? How did they turn out for people who killed all or some of the characters? I have to say I'm surprised that people are more concerned about Leliana's death than the inconsistencies in the timeline created by player choices in Origins and Asunder.

[Sylvius the Mad]

While I agree with you on the problem with deathblows narrative wise, I actually think the timing aspect was an unintentional highlight of realism. The problem with melee combat IRL is grappling - this is especially the case when outnumbered. Frequently triggered deathblows in DA:O made mobs dangerous again, because characters couldn't engage them on equal terms. 

In theory I would agree (after all, I really liked the dance of death in NWN combat because it simulated a combatant's inability to control his position precisely while also being an effective fighter), but it too often took place in such an obviously bad moment.  I would make decisions based on how long things took, and then they would take longer, and I would die.

 

DAO has a similar problem in how it cancels ongoing actions (like spell casting) when combat starts, so if you start pre-casting Inferno you can lose the spell without actually casting it because you entered the metaphysical state of combat, even though nothing else changed.

 

The NWN dance worked for me because it was constant and predictable.  I knew what the parameters of character behaviour were.  The DAO deathblows annoyed me because my character would do them when there was no mechanical need for them, and there was significant tactical cost.

[Leliana-is-dead]

Story in the game equals story, no more no less. The death of Leliana was actually acknowledged, just not in the way people expected it to. It's just combat mechanics =/ = story. For example, Loghain's beheading was not a combat mechanic, it's story-made based on your choice to behead him. So if Loghain was brought back from that, it would be a retcon, but as far as Leliana goes, it's only "you think you killed her" not "you killed her for sure". 

 

The biggest inconsistency in the game to me, something I am curious how it will be handled, is events in Asunder vs the characters who existed in both the book and Origins. 

 

*Asunder Spoilers*

 

In Asunder, Wynne knows the Warden, and as a result, Shale, who she could have only met if the Warden spared and recruited her. If the Warden did not recruit her and killed her the first time he/she met Wynne at the tower, then how would Asunder's events have taken place? If we assume Wynne survived her death at the tower(which would be a second time), it still doesn't explain how she knows Shale. Not to mention, what if Shale was killed in the game as well or never met the Warden and was never activated? Even if both survived, there's still the matter of Shale being acquainted with Wynne. 

 

Should we assume that both Wynne and Shale rise from the dead like Anders and Leliana as well or should we just take Asunder characters' appearance and role as a direct consequence of Bioware's default Warden and no one else's? If it's Bioware's default Warden's choices only, then what about the events that took place at the White Spire? How did they turn out for people who killed all or some of the characters? I have to say I'm surprised that people are more concerned about Leliana's death than the inconsistencies in the timeline created by player choices in Origins and Asunder.

 

Is this the same book that gave Allister magical dragon blood that meant he didn't have to go on his calling and anyone he had sex with didn't have to either?

 

God damn, you remove the one greatest downside to being a warden, what's the point? 

 

It's almost as bad as deception

[TurretSyndrome]

Is this the same book that gave Allister magical dragon blood that meant he didn't have to go on his calling and anyone he had sex with didn't have to either?

 

God damn, you remove the one greatest downside to being a warden, what's the point? 

 

It's almost as bad as deception

 

The one where Alistair is revealed to have dragon blood is a comic book. Asunder doesn't mention Alistair, only Wynne, Shale and Leliana from Origins.