I just made a world state which is completely random, just to test the randomise feature. Seems like a nice one to go through at some point with choices I maybe wouldn't have made.
Apparently, my characters were really short on party members in DA2. No Isabela or no Fenris for example. Honestly, I don't think I ever played DA2 without recruiting people...weird that I never considered it wasn't an option.
My current default world state has the most interesting decisions in Origins.
As of now, my human noble warden managed to get a hardened Alistair and Anora to marry, while keeping Loghain alive. While this cost Alistair in Origins, I have a feeling he'll still be sympathetic to the wardens in Inquisition (as you don't ever really "quit" being a warden). My warden also performed the dark ritual with Morrigan and left in the eluvian.
I think Loghain will be a positive force in the next game. Highly likely we'll meet him in Inquisition since he's stationed in Orlais.
In DA II my Hawke was a sympathetic with the mages, but ultimately joined the templars in restoring order after the hordes of blood mages he hacked through changed his mind. Anders is alive however, I didn't want to make a martyr of him.
I think Loghain will be a positive force in the next game. Highly likely we'll meet him in Inquisition since he's stationed in Orlais.
Anders is alive however, I didn't want to make a martyr of him.
Some good choices, although, I'm not so sure on the Loghain thing as default world state he is dead.
On a more personal note, after my first world state where I left him alive, I've killed Anders every time. Martyr or not, what he did was wrong and he betrayed my character and me by being a right dick. It also made me angry that if I didn't help him, he still does it. To me he undid the game and made it obvious my choices mean nothing.
I think Loghain will be a positive force in the next game. Highly likely we'll meet him in Inquisition since he's stationed in Orlais.
(...)
Anders is alive however, I didn't want to make a martyr of him.
Loghain is dead in most people's playthroughs; and even in the comparatively few where he isn't, consider that he was already in his advanced 50s when he contracted the taint, and that was twelve years ago. There's a really really high possibility that he's already dead one way or another, and a good case for tempering expectations about seeing him.
Re. Anders and making him a martyr: pretty much no one sees Anders as one other than himself. Even the mages leading the White Spire rebellion and later the mage war saw Anders in a negative light, his name became no war cry of freedom to anyone. If you don't wanna hear the martyr number even from him, just rival him and instead of the martyrdom speech he'll beg you to kill him out of mercy - but in lore terms, he becomes no martyr either way.
Apparently, my characters were really short on party members in DA2. No Isabela or no Fenris for example. Honestly, I don't think I ever played DA2 without recruiting people...weird that I never considered it wasn't an option.
For some people they accidentally completely miss people or didn't realize you could recruit them. Like for DA:O Leliana more obvious she's a party member but Sten, Zevran and Wyrne seem to be missed often based upon what you pick. Sten if you're focused on the main story and don't realize Lothering can fall, Zevran if you think it's wise to not let your assassin to live, Wyrne since it requires specific choices to make sure she lives/comes with you.
Fenris's recruitment quest wasn't obvious and if you ignore Varric you can miss Isabella.
Loghain is dead in most people's playthroughs; and even in the comparatively few where he isn't, consider that he was already in his advanced 50s when he contracted the taint, and that was twelve years ago. There's a really really high possibility that he's already dead one way or another, and a good case for tempering expectations about seeing him.
Re. Anders and making him a martyr: pretty much no one sees Anders as one other than himself. Even the mages leading the White Spire rebellion and later the mage war saw Anders in a negative light, his name became no war cry of freedom to anyone. If you don't wanna hear the martyr number even from him, just rival him and instead of the martyrdom speech he'll beg you to kill him out of mercy - but in lore terms, he becomes no martyr either way.
Does Anders even think that himself ? With a friend Hawke I get "and if I pay for that with my life, then I pay. Maybe that way Justice will be free" and Anders' just straight-up asks a rival Hawke to kill him on the spot "before there is nothing left of me". I've seen "Anders sees himself as a martyr" often around the forums, so is there some important dialogue that I'm missing somewhere ?
I've seen "Anders sees himself as a martyr" often around the forums, so is there some important dialogue that I'm missing somewhere ?
He does say something about becoming an example, his name living on to encourage other mages, etc. I honestly can't quote the words back to you because I've only done his friendship path once (hated it, never again), but I remember it was in there in the middle of his final speeches. I could be wrong as to the exact terms he uses, in any case, it has been forever since I saw that ending.
The war cry stuff I do know is not from Anders, but from Varric's description at the end if you side with the mages. But Varric's spin doctor tale is one thing, and lore is another. He says Anders and Hawke became war cries for freedom, but that never actually happens in Asunder, for instance. Everyone is pretty quick to condemn Anders for a terrorist and disassociate from his name, so the whole martyrdom angle never realized as told in DA2.
With a friend Hawke I get "and if I pay for that with my life, then I pay. Maybe that way Justice will be free" and Anders' just straight-up asks a rival Hawke to kill him on the spot "before there is nothing left of me". I've seen "Anders sees himself as a martyr" often around the forums, so is there some important dialogue that I'm missing somewhere ?
I don't think you are missing anything, actually.
In the friendship path, Anders is ready to pay for his acts and even discusses this as a theoretical scenario with Isabela in Mark of the Assassin. Isabela's line goes something like: "Let's say you free mages, but in order to do so you kill a bunch of innocent people. Would you too deserve justice for that?". And he flat out answers "Yes".
In the rivalry path he asks for death. You can even convince him to fight with you on the Templar side, to atone for his crime, and he somehow hints that he is going to kill himself after the battle is over (and I mean the 100% rivalry, when Hawke basically has him convinced he is possessed by Vengeance and out of control).
In short, I think the "martyr" accusation is a little too simple down the path of depicting him as someone who has gone crazy. He hasn't. He just made a blood-chilling decision and I always liked the fact that he is ready to accept the consequences of his act. I think his level of awareness is difficoult to find in many of the other companions. But that's just my two cents, of course.
I can't remember where I saw it/read it, but love triangles in BioWare games (with the exception of Jade Empire) are significantly harder to account for from a programming perspective than monogamous relationships. If you managed to successfully engage in romantic relationships with both Lelianna and Morrigan, my understanding is that 'you weren't supposed to.'
Ahh thanks for the answer Goth. I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to represent all the choices done by million of different players. This keep is one tool available to help them and who knows, maybe since alot of us did "exploit" this relationship, they might choose to represent it somehow.
There are two different tiles available for killing Wynne (one during Broken Circle and one during Sacred Ashes), what exactly is the issue you're having setting her as dead?
There is one for the Broken Circle but the panel makes it seem as though she was a casualty of the demons there and not slain by my hand. This is a big choice for me because it separated my World state from most of my friends. And even though I regretted doing it, it made the most sense and ended up influencing how I dealt with the Mages.
Another part of Anders' dialogue if you decide to kill him is "The sooner I die, the sooner my name lives on to inspire generations."
There is one for the Broken Circle but the panel makes it seem as though she was a casualty of the demons there and not slain by my hand. This is a big choice for me because it separated my World state from most of my friends. And even though I regretted doing it, it made the most sense and ended up influencing how I dealt with the Mages.
It's not possible for her to die as a casualty of the quest, the only way for her to die there is by your hand. But send some Feeback if it's the wording of the tile that bothers you, maybe they'll consider changing it.
I don't think you are missing anything, actually.
In the friendship path, Anders is ready to pay for his acts and even discusses this as a theoretical scenario with Isabela in Mark of the Assassin. Isabela's line goes something like: "Let's say you free mages, but in order to do so you kill a bunch of innocent people. Would you too deserve justice for that?". And he flat out answers "Yes".
In the rivalry path he asks for death. You can even convince him to fight with you on the Templar side, to atone for his crime, and he somehow hints that he is going to kill himself after the battle is over (and I mean the 100% rivalry, when Hawke basically has him convinced he is possessed by Vengeance and out of control).
In short, I think the "martyr" accusation is a little too simple down the path of depicting him as someone who has gone crazy. He hasn't. He just made a blood-chilling decision and I always liked the fact that he is ready to accept the consequences of his act. I think his level of awareness is difficoult to find in many of the other companions. But that's just my two cents, of course.
I see where you're coming from but what I didn't like about Anders and Vengeance was the shift in character from Awakening. In Awakening, Anders didn't like the Templars who were guarding him and laughed when the died, but it was light hearted humor, not hatred. While he obviously didn't want to be in the Circle, I never got the impression he hated the Templars or the Chantry itself. He even made his escapes and recaptures sound like a game.
Now with the time that has passed since then, I suppose you could say something has changed. I read some bio somewhere that describes him being sold out to the Templars by a fellow Warden. That was a long time ago so I don't remember where I read it. It wasn't some fan-fic, I know that!
I see where you're coming from but what I didn't like about Anders and Vengeance was the shift in character from Awakening. In Awakening, Anders didn't like the Templars who were guarding him and laughed when the died, but it was light hearted humor, not hatred. While he obviously didn't want to be in the Circle, I never got the impression he hated the Templars or the Chantry itself. He even made his escapes and recaptures sound like a game.
Now with the time that has passed since then, I suppose you could say something has changed. I read some bio somewhere that describes him being sold out to the Templars by a fellow Warden. That was a long time ago so I don't remember where I read it. It wasn't some fan-fic, I know that!
I wonder what that could be...
hair? Nah..
Eyes? Nope
Witty Banter? Nah uh still amusing
Merged with a spirit which the event can alter the personality of a person? Nope seems normal to me @__@
Sir Pounce-a-Lot? THAT'S IT!! That's why he's so different! He's gone!
In all seriousness, people tend to forget that once merged with a spirit personality can change. Anders in act 1 was similar to himself in Awakening and it shifted by the end of the game.
It's not possible for her to die as a casualty of the quest, the only way for her to die there is by your hand. But send some Feeback if it's the wording of the tile that bothers you, maybe they'll consider changing it.
Thanks for clearing this up Nine. I sent in feedback a few days ago but now I'm alright with how it is on my end. I have you to thank.
I wonder what that could be...
hair? Nah..
Eyes? Nope
Witty Banter? Nah uh still amusing
Merged with a spirit which the event can alter the personality of a person? Nope seems normal to me @__@
Sir Pounce-a-Lot? THAT'S IT!! That's why he's so different! He's gone!
In all seriousness, people tend to forget that once merged with a spirit personality can change. Anders in act 1 was similar to himself in Awakening and it shifted by the end of the game.
No because he says that Justice became Vengeance because of his hatred, does he not? This would imply that he had the hatred already. Anders changed Justice first.
I tried to recreate a save where I romanced leliana, but had romance morrigan before, but
did not do the DR, and live by sending loghain to kill the archdemon. Anyway, I had a human
baby with morrigan, but romanced leliana. But the keep doesn't let me do it.
I tried to recreate a save where I romanced leliana, but had romance morrigan before, but
did not do the DR, and live by sending loghain to kill the archdemon. Anyway, I had a human
baby with morrigan, but romanced leliana. But the keep doesn't let me do it.
Did you try picking Leliana as romance and human baby with Morrigan? Where is the conflict showing up?
Another part of Anders' dialogue if you decide to kill him is "The sooner I die, the sooner my name lives on to inspire generations."
Is this in the friend or rival path ?
I see where you're coming from but what I didn't like about Anders and Vengeance was the shift in character from Awakening. In Awakening, Anders didn't like the Templars who were guarding him and laughed when the died, but it was light hearted humor, not hatred. While he obviously didn't want to be in the Circle, I never got the impression he hated the Templars or the Chantry itself. He even made his escapes and recaptures sound like a game.
Now with the time that has passed since then, I suppose you could say something has changed. I read some bio somewhere that describes him being sold out to the Templars by a fellow Warden. That was a long time ago so I don't remember where I read it. It wasn't some fan-fic, I know that!
Awakening Anders is just better at hiding behind his humor. If you replay Awakening with a pro-Templar Warden it becomes pretty clear that Anders already hated the Templars. It's not like he attempted to escape 7 times (including one time where he swam across a lake that takes a hour to cross by boat) just for the fun of it - it actually landed him in solitary confinement for a year. There's also a whole lot of foreshadowing dialogue between him and Justice that I missed until I replayed Awakening after playing DA2.
As for the bio you're talking about, it's the short story that all the DA2 companions have. The Wardens don't really sell him out to the Templars, but an ex-Templar joins the Wardens under the pretense that his chantry was destroyed and basically starts following Anders around.
Is this in the friend or rival path ?
Awakening Anders is just better at hiding behind his humor. If you replay Awakening with a pro-Templar Warden it becomes pretty clear that Anders already hated the Templars. It's not like he attempted to escape 7 times (including one time where he swam across a lake that takes a hour to cross by boat) just for the fun of it - it actually landed him in solitary confinement for a year. There's also a whole lot of foreshadowing dialogue between him and Justice that I missed until I replayed Awakening after playing DA2.
As for the bio you're talking about, it's the short story that all the DA2 companions have. The Wardens don't really sell him out to the Templars, but an ex-Templar joins the Wardens under the pretense that his chantry was destroyed and basically starts following Anders around.
Ah very cool. I don't remember the banter, but now I want to play with it. Though again I'd stress that there is a difference between "doesn't like" and "hates". And I do know Anders legitimately wanted to escape, or he wouldn't have asked for help to get his phylactery. I just never got that level of hatred from him. But maybe I missed some of that stuff you mentioned.
Yeah, that was the short story. It was just that Warden that sold him out, not the whole order. But do you mean the Templar joined the Wardens just to watch Anders or was he there and never really left his devotion to the Templars and therefore never trusted Anders? I saw it as the latter.
Ah very cool. I don't remember the banter, but now I want to play with it. Though again I'd stress that there is a difference between "doesn't like" and "hates". And I do know Anders legitimately wanted to escape, or he wouldn't have asked for help to get his phylactery. I just never got that level of hatred from him. But maybe I missed some of that stuff you mentioned.
Yeah, that was the short story. It was just that Warden that sold him out, not the whole order. But do you mean the Templar joined the Wardens just to watch Anders or was he there and never really left his devotion to the Templars and therefore never trusted Anders? I saw it as the latter.
I think the short story indicates the former because as soon as Rolan joins the Wardens the Chantry stops protesting Anders' presence in the Wardens, and then Rolan 'mysteriously' becomes Anders' go-to partner for all assignments.
Did you try picking Leliana as romance and human baby with Morrigan? Where is the conflict showing up?
Yeah exactly that.
No because he says that Justice became Vengeance because of his hatred, does he not? This would imply that he had the hatred already. Anders changed Justice first.
My point though was that Anders changed either way hence why I question people who wonder why he seems different in DA2
Did you try picking Leliana as romance and human baby with Morrigan? Where is the conflict showing up?
The Tapestry won't let them either way, it see having a normal baby as a romance morrigan exclusive thing.
Loghain is dead in most people's playthroughs
Whilst I'm not surprised by this I wonder what the actual stats are for these decisions. I remember hearing Mike Laidlaw at a panel say the vast majority of people romanced Leliana, but does anyone know if Bioware have released such statistics, just to satiate curiosity if nothing else.
In my world state I tried to keep as many people alive as I could, so Loghain and Anders were both spared, at least that way they could attempt to redeem themselves, at least that's what my Warden and Hawke thought
Whilst I'm not surprised by this I wonder what the actual stats are for these decisions. I remember hearing Mike Laidlaw at a panel say the vast majority of people romanced Leliana, but does anyone know if Bioware have released such statistics, just to satiate curiosity if nothing else.
In my world state I tried to keep as many people alive as I could, so Loghain and Anders were both spared, at least that way they could attempt to redeem themselves, at least that's what my Warden and Hawke thought
I remember that David Gaider said on his tumblr that more than a third of people played as a female character (can't remember if it's for DAO or DA2 or both), and I've seen floating around the statistic that 80% of people played as a human in Origins. I can't find the original quotes though, so my numbers may be a little bit off.
I remember that David Gaider said on his tumblr that more than a third of people played as a female character (can't remember if it's for DAO or DA2 or both), and I've seen floating around the statistic that 80% of people played as a human in Origins. I can't find the original quotes though, so my numbers may be a little bit off.
Is that 'as well as another race' or only humans? I did play as Dwarfs to do the opening stories but didn't really after that, elfs I did though, they are far more interesting.
Bioware did give a stat once about Mass Effect, where they said 2 Thirds of players never played as female Shephard and therefore didn't play the best experience in ME (as female Shep voice acting was so much better, some scenes by male Shep are just dull while female Shep gives it real character).
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