Lol, sounds like the 20's I always wanted in university. So far very interesting. I've never been great at specing even going back to Diablo II. Still getting creds for Prem. Spectre packs, but the Talon Merc never shows up. Last pack gave me a human female adapt :/
Human Female Adept > Talon Merc. And now you can make her stand out from the crowd with a fancy new paint job.
You know.. the no Cain Mines build may in fact be the most sub optimal way to play the kit there is. Even if you only have 3 ranks in Cain Mines, you still have the ability to nuke an area similar to a Cobra missile.. and all the utility that comes from a Cobra missile, which is significant. You also have a way to cover your squishy flank and give yourself an alarm that there are enemies flanking. Just those qualities alone are worth more than anything you get at rank 6 of his other powers except possibly 6a in the passives.
So.. if we're speaking in an 'optimal/min/max' type conversation.. the no Cain Mines build is actually the weakest Talon Merc build there is.
No one's actually knocking her, she's a hipster and we know that, we also don't care. And you really shouldn't speak for others, I'm sure Argent is fine saying what she means.
Ok let me attempt to give some insight on my thoughts from my perspective of the talon.
Theres a very common misconception that a player have to spec their skill tree into the bow for the "robin hood" build. Which is false. ill explain later.
Lets talk about "Optimal" for the talon merc.. aswell as most kits, true optimal means being able to use EVERY ability with said kit that does the most damage when used in tandom with each other...
This includes YOUR weapon AND ammo.
Personal opinion i honestly feel the most "optimal" way to play the talon is 66660 WITH harrier OR Venom or talon and ill tell u why.
When i play talon ASSUMING Plat with 2 or 3 randoms as it relates to most of us. Heres my ingame plan.
1. Primary source of damage always the weapon
harrier for being more greedy with faster kills/score. Or the safer venom because venom makes any kit borderline OP (best overall weapon in game for decent damage + supreme utility)
2. I ALWAYS use my bow every friggin chance i get. i spec into both debuff evos... it makes my harrier OR venom hits that much harder...
the bow STAGGERS even without concussive to smaller enemies, conc shot for phantoms bombers. the bow can INTENTIONALLY force a bubble for teamates deep drill penetration for certain bosses.
3. I only nuke spawns hardcore if im playing with friends for lulz and the trolling. But if im puggin with puglets im unsure about, cain mine spams are saved to bail them out IF necessary.
4. Heres a big tip for everyone, the talon is BETTER 100% as a defensive stronghold specialist as opposed to a spawn nuker... its almost ALWAYS better to corral your team into anytype of corridor or room with 3 mines placed and let enemies come to u and get face rolled.
5. For any wave you havent used am ammo pack only means ur later waves u potentially get stronger as u have more free will to completely "Delete" the entire wave budget if needed for whatever reason.
Harrier u need ammo boxes often, but so does cain mines its hittin two birds 1 stone. but venom is awesome aswell.
DPS = Weapon with ammo like inciendiery or disruptor detonate with cain mine explosion.
Utility = Cleverly placed trip mine traps AND the bow that staggers so i can gundown enemies with less resistance.
Debuff = conc or armor shot before u nuke a big boss (conc arrow) or gun an enemy down (armor arrow debuff)
SPIKE DAMAGE = Cain mines
Defense = Camp with 3 mines triggering as enemies draw near.
Thats optimal.. u use EVERY SINGLE aspect of his kit for success, without leaving out anything he was born with.
FYI... THE TALON DOES NOT HAVE HIGHEST DPS (nooklear tekken) He has the highest SPIKE DAMAGE. ALL infiltrators have more "DPS" Then the talon merc and just about 80% of adepts have more "DPS" and anykit capable of abusing inciendiery have more "DPS". The harrier or venom or talon pistol helps fill that gap.
also another FYI Talon pistol is wayyy better then arc pistol.
also i dont wanna hear "boring" because thats completely subjective whats fun for one is different from another... but if ur talkin optional AKA min/maxing its hars to beat 66660, because 12 cain mines WILL ALLOW YOU to go either geth scanner or assault loadout which gives much more options then if u were forced to go grenade capacity.
apologies for such a long post
You put a Talon on your Talon, so you can Talon while you Talon?
I never Talon, and I never Talon. I especially don't Talon while I Talon, which I never do, so I have little reason to put Talon on my Talon.
for us to understand the talon with a talon, we must.. go... deeper
for us to understand the talon with a talon, we must.. go... deeper
Just how low can you go?
I agree with what Zae said.
Cain Mines don't have to be spammed, they can be set as booby traps (the way they're meant to be used), you can drop the 6th rank in concussive arrows (since it's capacity and you get that capacity from Cain Mines). or you can just put 3 points in concussive arrows because you only need 3 points to send phantoms flying.
skipping passives is ok too I guess. You miss out on the weapon damage that would be replaced by a Strength Enhancer though.
If you still want to try the Robin Hood build though, then that's awesome!
- more like the Friar Tuck build when I play it. I think I hit things with my Graal (lvl 3) more by accident. Still, going to adjust the weapons, maybe use a Talon (which I can hit things with, oddly enough) with an SMG back up. I'll try the Graal again later on.
Guest_DisturbedDiesel_*
also another FYI Talon pistol is wayyy better then arc pistol.
Can you please elaborate? I've played a bow build with Talon Merc quite a lot, and i always use arc pistol. In my opinion it synergises perfectly with the character because you can use the auto aim from the bow to release your arc pistol shot.
There is no doubt that the Talon pistol is a beast of a weapon when you have an accuracy boosting power such as Hunter Mode, but the Talon Merc has no such powers, so i always find that using the Talon pistol on the Talon Merc is only really useful at close range.
Am i missing something really obvious here?
Best Talon merc build utilises Skill Mines and Skill-bow with AP arrows. Then you post on BSN that he is "squishy" to justify the fact that you can mash a single button with your eyes closed and get a killstreak.
Just remember: HE IS SO SQUISHY!!! Conveniently ignore the fact that when there's nothing around to kill you there's no such thing as squishiness.
Skill bow is best used against Dragoons and Ravagers.
@zae
you know I have tried to find a play style with him that enjoy without any success as we have discussed it in previous threads. Since I don't really play this game much anymore, most of my opinions come from the large amount of time I put into it trying to find unique ways to play each kit. My final conclusion on the Talon is that I wish the trip mines were actually only usable as true traps. I also wish they would have given us the ability to place more than 3 on the map at a time and changed the way that they mines worked when deploying more than the maximum. It would have fit a nice niche for me as a defensive character with the ability to mix in his bow attacks.
One of the big head scratchers to me is why they gave cain mines a 150% bonus against all defenses. With their high damage, the bonus seems a bit overkill. I think the mines would actually be much better balance wise without this.
As for my "boring" comment. It is boring to me, which leads to that statement of my opinion, but I know others enjoy the kit. I do appreciate that Bioware tried to make something unique, but it just isn't for me.
@zae
you know I have tried to find a play style with him that enjoy without any success as we have discussed it in previous threads. Since I don't really play this game much anymore, most of my opinions come from the large amount of time I put into it trying to find unique ways to play each kit. My final conclusion on the Talon is that I wish the trip mines were actually only usable as true traps. I also wish they would have given us the ability to place more than 3 on the map at a time and changed the way that they mines worked when deploying more than the maximum. It would have fit a nice niche for me as a defensive character with the ability to mix in his bow attacks.
One of the big head scratchers to me is why they gave cain mines a 150% bonus against all defenses. With their high damage, the bonus seems a bit overkill. I think the mines would actually be much better balance wise without this.
As for my "boring" comment. It is boring to me, which leads to that statement of my opinion, but I know others enjoy the kit. I do appreciate that Bioware tried to make something unique, but it just isn't for me.
Spam cain mines... That's the only way I even remotely enjoyed this character.
This. Once in a while I use the Cain mine spam build, but generally, I find the Talon one of the most boring characters.
Someone missed their calling as a sleezebag politician.
huh?
@papa smurf.... talons dps vs shield barriers makes it a great choice as u can not only chew up boss defenses, but u can allocate an armor ammo to ur talon, the talon weapon is just an overall powerhouse only matched by harrier and venom for the talon merc, arc pistol is excellent too. if ur honestly MORE comfortable with arc pistol then by all means go for it... the only reason i highly suggest harrier is because the harrier raw dps can help fill the damage gap inbetween spawn nukes so u can be offensively useful after u done went cowbow on a spawn
Yeah i think i'll stick with Arc Pistol - i totally agree that the Talon Pistol is an awesome gun, but i can't use it as effectively as i can the Arc Pistol on the Talon Merc.
I can easily oneshot most mooks with that setup, but it doesn't work when i try it with Talon pistol.
Maybe i just have **** aim...
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