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My favourite excuses for not having female models!


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#1
Abraham_uk

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Given that Bioware is one of the developers that includes a gender option when creating video games (that tends to be a stable of many western RPG's) what do you make of excuses not to include them?

 

Excuses that some developers make for not including female models and females in video games:

 

  1. New body frame.

    Heck even in Bioware, we rarely see female variants of Turians, Salarians, Elcor, Hanar, Batarians, Volus etc due to to the amount of resources and time it takes to include these female variants. (There are no lore reasons not to).

    That said Bioware does include both gender variants of humans and quarians. There was Omega DLC which has a female Turian (which I won't spoil for you). A female Turian was playable later on in multiplayer. The multiplayer allows gamers to play as both genders for Quarians, Humans and Turians.
     
  2. Need new costumes: Women wear different clothes to men. That said, females in real life can cross dress without the same stigma as men who cross dress. When men cross dress it is mostly for fancy dress, but when females cross dress it is merely one of the diverse fashion options available to women. So it is strange that developers use this excuse. There are many ways round this. You could explain that said universe, women and men have no fashion distinctions. This could lead to some baggy results do to female's different frames.
     
  3. Animations: I don't pay much attention. I am told however that men and women move differently. Yes there are noticeable differences between poses, women tend to cross their legs (especially if they're wearing a skirt) etc. However there are plenty of subtle differences. Some gamers found it off putting that female Shepard had identical animations to male Shepard despite her different frame. In Dragon Age 2, some gamers remarked that the "butt wiggle was offensive".
     
  4. Clipping Issues: In games that give you the option to change the body type of the created character, you run the risk of clipping into objects or even the telekinesis effect (where the character never physically touches anything). I noticed this when I went crazy with this feature in some of the early WWE Smackdown games. The reason being that regardless of the body shape, the invisible body frame is exactly the same, with exactly the same animations.
     
  5. We don't have time: When a developer wants to implement a feature but the 2 years development time isn't enough. Goodness. How does Bioware manage it these days? 2 years is all they get and they manage it for a 20-40 hour game yet it's not doable for a 4 hour game? Oh well. Maybe Bioware has a larger development team.
     
  6. There is no demand: Developers sometimes use this argument. It angers a lot of women understandably. Apparently because most gamers are male and apparently male gamers  will always play as males if given the choice, this invalidates the need for the female option. Developers who use this argument may even quote Bioware's statistics on how many gamers play as female Shepard to back up this argument. I don't agree with this argument, but there you have it. It is frequently said that if you put a female on the front cover, this will hurt sales. People had to fight for female Shepard to get her trailer and cover. People had to fight to have Ellie's face shown on the cover of The Last of Us. People had to fight for Elizabeth to be shown on Bioshock Infinite covers.
     
  7. Mine field: This excuse is used against the inclusion of disabled, ethnic minorities, LGBT and of course women. Yes, it is apparently better to stick to 30-40 something burly white men than step outside the box. With a "burly white man" there is no such thing as an offensive portrayal. You can bombard the player with burly white male stereotypes and not offend anyone. However if you step outside of that box, you must be ultra careful of how you portray such a character, just incase you offend a pressure group. I think this excuse is exaggerated since, video games get away with offending pressure groups all the time without any impact to sales, but hey, a lame excuse can be made compelling by developers.
     
  8. We don't know what a woman is:  The argument is that women are different to men and behave in a different manner to men. Since the development team is all male, that apparently means that they don't have a clue about women. None of the development team had mothers, female teachers, friends who happened to be female, seen any females in their entire life etc. The entire development team grew up in an all male colony in Madeupistan. One developer from Madeupistan's capital "Nonsensia" had this to day. "So what is it that women do exactly? What are their interests? If we cake the female model in makeup, get her to talk exclusively about dating men, fashion and gossip have we created a female character? Do women give you cooties?" Sorry guys. If you're saying you know little about women I can buy that. But nothing at all? Besides, you don't write stereotypes, you write characters. Write an engaging character who happens to be female if you're really that clueless about women. If you're a smart writer you'll be able to make her engaging and include her gender as part of her personality (not the entirety though).
     
  9. Artistic Vision: Actually an exception. Heck I am not sure whether this counts as an excuse. If it is an excuse then it's a good one. There can be lore reasons in game for women not being present (that alien race reproduces asexually or maybe there is a virus that attacks women exclusively). Perhaps the setting is World War 2.
     
  10. We don't want to: Another good excuse in my opinion. Maybe just maybe the developers just don't want to include women and that's that. Okay. If that is excuse then I'm okay with it. You can't debunk the "we don't want to" argument. There is just no counter to this. Whatever reason you can come up with for including women in a game "we don't want to" trumps it every time.  Go on Ubisoft, have to guts to say "we don't want to". It's fine.

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#2
LPPrince

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Depends on the scenario. Ubisoft is catching flak from everyone for this one now.

 


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#3
Elhanan

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Because I do not drive any longer, and getting out is more problematic. But I have dated many tall and/ or athletic women in my past, including models simply because I formed the courage to ask them; many others were too intimidated. Perhaps I should inquire if they have their own vehicle....

Oh! Those models! nevermind....

:D
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#4
Abraham_uk

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Check this out.

 


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#5
Khayness

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Yes, it is apparently better to stick to 30-40 something burly white men than step outside the box. With a "burly white man" there is no such thing as an offensive portrayal. You can bombard the player with burly white male stereotypes and not offend anyone.

 

And with all the bitching about pixels all the time, who can say it's their fault really?



#6
Beerfish

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Don't want to produce male sex conquest cards.



#7
Cyonan

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The first 5 basically amount to female characters requiring additional resources to get into the game, which for a game like Assassin's Creed setting up a female assassin would have been a solid amount of work. There is a lot of interaction with the environment and NPC models in the game and you want to make sure there are no clipping issues or other animation problems.

 

That said, I still think it's a pretty weak excuse to use.

 

For other games, I think that if you're going to have a decent amount of character customization you should just plan to have playable female characters from the start in most cases.

 

In games that have a pre-defined playable character then it's whatever. I wouldn't really see the need to let people play a female Adam Jensen or male Lara Croft.


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#8
Abraham_uk

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I love the Zelda franchise.

 

I just don't like it when people say "Link could be anyone".

 

No, no and no. Never mind the fact that Link is capable of using a variety of weapons in a variety of environments. Never mind the fact he can ride a horse, play an instrument (ocarina, mini-harp etc) engage in sailing and operate a train and swim (things that most human beings cannot do). Never mind the fact that he is a very clever puzzle solver who uses brains over brawns to solve problems.

 

Link can only be a white male. Sometimes he looks like he's 10 years of age, sometimes he looks like he's 18 years of age.

Link can't be any age.

Link can't be either gender.

Link can't be any phenotype.

Link can't be any physical build.

Link can't be physically disabled.

Link can't be any sexuality. (Most Zelda games don't really provide any evidence that Link has a sexuality anyway)

Link can only be... Link.



#9
Heimdall

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#2  That's not how clothes work in this context.  Wouldn't you have to create a new texture to conform to the female model even if you kept the same general design?



#10
Abraham_uk

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#2  That's not how clothes work in this context.  Wouldn't you have to create a new texture to conform to the female model even if you kept the same general design?

Fair enough.



#11
Inquisitor Recon

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Frankly I don't think game developers need an excuse to make their game with whatever characters they want to Include. Making a better game does not mean implementing quotas or pointless exercises in not trying to offend people looking for reasons to be offended. Somebody will always be offended no matter what you do.

I for one don't have a problem with white straight males. From the way they're talked about one would get the idea that they're terrible people.

And can we stop talking like nobody has ever made video games with important female characters before? Or are some people under the impression that game devs in the '90s and such were women hating neanderthals?
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#12
Fast Jimmy

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The OP forgot to include boob jiggle physics. This is a huge, time intensive resource that only Japan has shown themselves to be in touch with the desires of women gamers to replicate.
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#13
LPPrince

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OH MY GOD STARWHAL PLS

 

https://twitter.com/...081717345001472

 

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#14
SlottsMachine

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Games with female leads don't sell, now there are a number of reasons why this is the case but the fact is they just don't sell. 



#15
Mr.House

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I for one don't have a problem with white straight males. From the way they're talked about one would get the idea that they're terrible people.
 

The problem with the white straight protag is it's been so overused now it's hard not to think the writers/devs where being a bit lazy.



#16
Endurium

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Nit: the Omega DLC includes a female turian.

 

I agree with Cyonan. In the early years of gaming if we got gender at all it was male. Female protagonists, as I recall, started appearing in the 90s. Ultima 7 allowed the player to be a female Avatar (Ultima 8 and 9 did away with that), and so on.

 

WoW has boob physics, GW2 has boob physics, Age of Conan has boob physics, so it seems some MMO developers are on top of it. So far it has taken skeleton/mesh mods to add the same to Elder Scrolls games/engines.


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#17
Mr.House

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Games with female leads don't sell, now there are a number of reasons why this is the case but the fact is they just don't sell. 

So is that why Tomb Raider reboot did terrible and it's not getting a sequel? Oh wait.


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#18
Fast Jimmy

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So is that why Tomb Raider reboot did terrible and it's not getting a sequel? Oh wait.


Was this disproved?

http://www.eurogamer...it-expectations

I am not asking sarcastically - did they state the goal was met and that this story that came up last year was incorrect?

#19
Mr.House

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Was this disproved?

http://www.eurogamer...it-expectations

I am not asking sarcastically - did they state the goal was met and that this story that came up last year was incorrect?

SE is well known for having stupidly high expectations along with the fact that they delayed Tomb Raider to put crappy MP in it which raised the cost. TR sold in it's first month what many games wish they could do. TR was never a failure, if it was a failure like SE was trying to claim it would not have gotten a sequel greenlighted.

 

TR sold very well and it was a game with a female lead.


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#20
LPPrince

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What's sad is the idea that 3.4 million sold is a bad thing.


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#21
Abraham_uk

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Nit: the Omega DLC includes a female turian.

Ugh. Major "derp".

 

 

As for the Tomb Raider issue.

Dark Souls had really, really bad sales apparently.

 


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#22
Fast Jimmy

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What's sad is the idea that 3.4 million sold is a bad thing.


I don't disagree, but just wanted to make sure I hadn't imagined that whole thing.

#23
Milan92

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What's sad is the idea that 3.4 million sold is a bad thing.

 

Well, it sounds kinda low when you compare it with the 17.5 million GTA V sold in its first week....

 

But for a game that has a female protagonist, is not a sandbox game and was a reboot from a not overhyped franchise; yeah, its not a bad number. ^_^



#24
LPPrince

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Devs and Pubs need to stop shooting for CoD/GTA numbers with their game sales.


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#25
SlottsMachine

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So is that why Tomb Raider reboot did terrible and it's not getting a sequel? Oh wait.

 

Fair enough. And I would say that most of them fail because they just aren't that good. But the general public seems to soak up generic games with male leads like no tomorrow.