I'll play Devils advocate (Because it's loads of fun)
And present this piece of evidence, since we're all talking Ubisoft,
0.96 Million units.
That's laughably bad, from their standpoint, a female protagonist in an Assassin's Creed Game doesn't sell.
And Publishers are more interested in turning a profit then taking risks. We should all be aware of this by now.
Wasn't it a PS Vita game?
I don't think PS Vita games don't tend to sell as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't Lib start out as a PS Vita only title? How many people would've got it had it been released on the platforms as normal AC titles from its first day of release?
I never played it because it came out on a platform I didn't have.
Didn't Lib start out as a PS Vita only title? How many people would've got it had it been released on the platforms as normal AC titles from its first day of release?
I never played it because it came out on a platform I didn't have.
Wasn't it a PS Vita game?
I don't think PS Vita games don't tend to sell as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It was also released in HD on the 360 and PS3.
But no one really cared.
It was also released in HD on the 360 and PS3.
But no one really cared.
Because it had already been out for quite some time. Had it been released on Vita, 360, and PS3 on the very first day, and not on the same day as AC3, then I imagine it would've sold far more.
Liberation is a bad example.
Because it had already been out for quite some time. Had it been released on Vita, 360, and PS3 on the very first day, and not on the same day as AC3, then I imagine it would've sold far more.
Liberation is a bad example.
Yeah, but I'm using a Ubisoft example in relation to Ubisofts Unity problems. What would speak to them more than their own poor selling game?
Liberation's release was an example less of bad use of female protags and more of terribad timing, if anything.
Liberation's release was an example less of bad use of female protags and more of terribad timing, if anything.
Oh yes. Yes it was.
I'm not denying that. But would Ubisoft if they were smart enough to use my reasoning?
Nope.
The question isn't "do female leads sell well"? Of course they do.
The question is "do male leads sell better?" Well it would seem so.
If the end game is profit maximisation, and you're of the opinion that white 30-40 something males sell better, then you go by that.
This stuff is probably tested in focus groups. They probably show images of people of either gender, various phenotypes ages heights and weights, and ask the focus group to vote.
Focus groups are one way (not the only way) to conduct market research.
This conclusion is probably false.
However, it wouldn't surprise me that sales figures and focus group testing were used to back up these claims.
Maybe Liberation was Ubisoft dipping their toes in the water to test whether or not a female protagonist could sell a game (ignoring the many other variables that make games sell).
As odd as it may sound to some people, a lot of people find a difference in watching a character do something on a screen versus actually playing as them and possibly getting into the role like in a video game.
I'll agree that female leads are plenty marketable in gaming, but it has nothing to do with Frozen pulling in 1.2 billion.
Maybe. I don't deny that it could be different for other people - for me it isn't, because I pretty much always either identify with the protagonist or have 0 interest in a piece of media (book, game, movie, whatever).
But the reality is that the majority of videogames are not RPGs, and there's no role to get into. Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Solid are basically just cutscene movies with gameplay thrown in.
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*
Maybe. I don't deny that it could be different for other people - for me it isn't, because I pretty much always either identify with the protagonist or have 0 interest in a piece of media (book, game, movie, whatever).
But the reality is that the majority of videogames are not RPGs, and there's no role to get into. Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Solid are basically just cutscene movies with gameplay thrown in.
People still feel differently about it, even if it's something like DMC or MGS.
Although a lot of RPGs offer character customization and the option to choose your gender, so I wasn't really considering those types of games in making my statement.
I'm a young, athletic, straight, white guy, but I absolutely can't stand most bulky white guy or stereotypical soldier protagonists. It's because the vast majority of them are boring, predictable, clichéd and more or less use the same template. These characters are also visually extremely bland and obviously unappealing. Sadly the majority of video games love these kind of protagonists, wether it's Duke, Jason Brody or every FPS game protagonist ever. The only example where they managed to create interesting characters from that base imo is the MGS franchise.
A female or at least unique or colored male protagonist makes the game more interesting. That's something even non character creator games(mostly JRPGs) do right. If they can do it, why can't mainstream western companies do it?
Sunset Overdrive seems to share your point of view too.
A character who is basically Deadpool (which is a good thing, since Deadpool is awesome) makes fun of the generic shooter protagonist.
Heck even in Bioware, we rarely see female variants of Turians, Salarians, Elcor, Hanar, Batarians, Volus etc due to to the amount of resources and time it takes to include these female variants. (There are no lore reasons not to).
That said Bioware does include both gender variants of humans and quarians. There was Omega DLC which has a female Turian (which I won't spoil for you). A female Turian was playable later on in multiplayer. The multiplayer allows gamers to play as both genders for Quarians, Humans and Turians.
True but female Shepard's animations are just a recycled version of male Shepard's animations which people complained about. Ubisoft want to give new animations to their female characters so I can respect them on that. Bioware is known for recycling animations and they do it because it requires less work.
Animations: I don't pay much attention. I am told however that men and women move differently. Yes there are noticeable differences between poses, women tend to cross their legs (especially if they're wearing a skirt) etc. However there are plenty of subtle differences. Some gamers found it off putting that female Shepard had identical animations to male Shepard despite her different frame. In Dragon Age 2, some gamers remarked that the "butt wiggle was offensive".
The problem with a female Hawke is that her running animations were poorly done.
On the topic of this "controversy" now:
I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to understand that resources and time is required to create a female character who isn't just a male character with boobs and a wig on. Ubisoft just didn't deem it a necessary feature and focused that development time on gameplay mechanics this time around. People should be calling them out for not being innovative with the series rather than them not including female assassins (something they have previously done so the argument that they're sexist is ridiculous).
This is why gaming and game journalist is going down the drain. There are bigger problems. No one complains when there's a majority male-star cast in a movie with females only being a supporting minor cast just like no one complains where there's a movie with a female protagonist at the focus. If it's a game though then there's a huge outcry.
Double standards if you ask me because last year in Tomb Raider, we were playing as Lara Croft slaughtering men (and only men) on some remote island. Where were the women? Now imagine a role reversal with Lara Croft being replaced with Nathan Drake fighting against a tribe of amazon women and they're the only enemies in the game. We'd get Eurogamer, Kotuku and Pologon screaming sexism stating that the game is some misgonist's dark fantasy because Nathan is going around slaughtering women.
Guys, they're games. Some games will have gender-selection and some games won't. Deal with it.
Want more games with female protagonists? Then get more female developers into the gaming industry. That's the real problem if you ask me. The industry is male dominated so why act surprised when most games are developed with a male and straight audience in mind?
Eternal Phoenix. You make very good points.
Thumbs up to you.
Violence against men in games is standard, given the prevalence of males in games.
Women, not so much. In Titanfall, you can play as a male or female soldier. When your female character gets snuck up on and another player snaps her neck, same as a male character, you're forced to look into her lifeless eyes before she drops. That is wild, but games don't do that too often.
It may not of been have a video game, but "Female leads don't sell" my arse
Sadly, they don't.
So basically what we learned today is that we want better writing in games and well just better games. Having gender options is nice but if its just a re-skin in kinda defeats the point. Man, we should all agree more often.
Tomb Raider? Beyond Two Souls? TT: The Walking Dead?Sadly, they don't.
Guest_OneWomanArmy_*
Tomb Raider? Beyond Two Souls? TT: The Walking Dead?
THIS plus: Resident Evil - Claire Redfield and Jill Valentine.....
This is why gaming and game journalist is going down the drain. There are bigger problems. No one complains when there's a majority male-star cast in a movie with females only being a supporting minor cast just like no one complains where there's a movie with a female protagonist at the focus. If it's a game though then there's a huge outcry.
People absolutely complain about this all the time, and have been complaining about this for decades.
People absolutely complain about this all the time, and have been complaining about this for decades.
Aye, my mom wanted to watch Salt purely because Angelina Jolie was the star, and the sole one.
She enjoyed it very much.
Aye, my mom wanted to watch Salt purely because Angelina Jolie was the star, and the sole one.
She enjoyed it very much.
And we have something like the the Bechdel test for over 30 years. It's a thing that's been around forever.
THIS plus: Resident Evil - Claire Redfield and Jill Valentine.....
Lets not forget the strong female characters in A Song of Ice and Fire(and Game of Thrones the show by association), or the fact that this happened
and Once Upon A Time(with a cast of some popular female characters) is doing pretty well on Facebook
Again, not games. But women are women. The appeal is there.
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