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Would you be willing to pay extra for mod tools?


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#76
robertthebard

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So? Who cares if someone comes up with nude mods or romance related mods. It's not like they're forcing them down people's throats. Either you use them or you don't, there's no reason to complain about their existence. I'm someone who dislikes the playersexual characters of DA 2 but I didn't have a problem with Alistair being playersexual through a mod, because that is what it is, a mod. Taking that seriously, to me, is just as ridiculous as taking someone's fanfiction seriously. The only time I objected to something related to such mods was when someone was asking the devs to "edit" Alistair so they may preserve their M-M romance with him in DA Keep that they had through the use of the mod. 
 
As for not requiring tools, how do you know? The game seems to be very big and very accessible this time around, and I'd like access to it's assets. If the tool can give me proper editing power over the in-game elements, be it creatures, objects, characters, weather etc, why not? Creating content with officially released tools is always the most efficient and safest.
 
I think your issue is not with allowing access to modders but with what they do with it. If people want to change Sera to include heterosexual romance, let them. What's it to you? Neither is it affecting you in anyway, nor will it ever make it's way to the actual game.
 
In any case, it seems the only reason they were not able to release a mod tool for the game this time is because of the switch to the new engine and the usage of third party tools, and not because they have opinions like "we don't want modders changing the work of our artists because we think it's disrespectful" or "we're afraid of our characters going nude and playersexual".


Wow, that's quite a leap from what I said to what you cherry picked me to have said. However, I'll try to be a bit plainer, so maybe you get it: If that's the sum of what I'd be paying for, it's not worth my money. I'm a 51 year old biker who used to bounce at a strip club; nudity does not offend me. Neither does somebody's sexuality. However, I'm not going to fork over enough money to buy another game just to make nude models and alter NPC sexuality to suit me. Of course, I laid out what would be worth my money in the rest of the post that you quoted. Instead of commenting on the whole of my post, you decided, I guess for the sake of sensationalism, to focus on this?

So, since one of the arguments is "modding allows replay-ability", did you use each of the nude model mods for each different play-through? Just one? I mean, it's not like there's only one mod available that does that. How, exactly, does altering Morrigan's hair color, or facial features add to your ability to replay? Do you use a different one every time you start a new game? Note that since this seems to be such a big deal to you since you chose to ignore everything else I said to focus on this, I'm going to have to assume that you did indeed run each of these mods individually in each playthrough. That's cool, if naked pixels are what you're in to.

For me, as I already said, that's inadequate to demand my cash. I want to build areas, not maps. That means I need to be able to set the ambience, right down to music and lighting. I want tools as robust as what we had for NWN/NWN2, tools that allowed me to build what I wanted to build to tell the stories I wanted to tell, instead of just making nudes, and altering NPC sexuality. I'm sorry if what I'd consider to be worth my money is a lot deeper than what you'd like to be able to do, but hey, that's why it's my money. If, on the other hand, you're going to be giving me your money to spend, then I'll spend it however you think is appropriate. For me, content, or the tools to make content that shallow isn't worth paying for.

#77
Fast Jimmy

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No.  And I'd rather there was no modding at all.  So many of DA:O problems were 'fixed' with mods.  It shouldn't have to be that way.
 
If the new game did not have modding, maybe they'd be incentivised to get it right, or they know what would happen.


Yeah... that's not how things work.

9vzYQwj.jpg

DA2 was shipped with many bugs, in both the base campaign and the DLC, that were never fixed via official patches, let alone sent out right the first time. The absence of a toolkit does not equate better quality.
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#78
Realmzmaster

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The presence or lack thereof has no bearing on the quality of the game or the number of bugs. I would not pay for a toolkit, because I have no interest in creating mods. There has to be a considerable number of gamers who want and are willing to pay for a modkit to be make it viable.

 

Let's say that DAI is a smash hit and sells 1 million copies on the PC. Of those 1 million gamers 2% percent want to mod.That would be 20,000 modders. Let say the modkit will cost $30 that would be $600,000 or if Bioware charges $60 it would be $1.2 million.

Would that be enough to cover the cost of developing a modkit?

 

The assumption is that you can get 20,000 modders which is probably not likely. 

 

 According to VGChartz (I know not the most reliable figures, but they will suffice), DAO sold 480,000 copies on the PC. Awakenings sold 70,000 copies. 

 

DA2 sold 540,000 copies on the PC. The majority of the sales were on the consoles. DAI will no doubt follow that trend. There is basically no return for Bioware in producing a modkit for just PC gamers.

 

The only way for Bioware to release a modkit for DAI would be if they owned all the tools and engine they used like they did for NWN/NWN2. 

Right now that ship has sailed into the night. Frostbite 3 or future versions will be the way forward.

 

I am all for modkits for those who wish to use them, but I do not see one coming for DAI IMHO.

 

What Bioware could do is make DAI mod friendly.


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#79
Fast Jimmy

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What Bioware could do is make DAI mod friendly.


And, given DICE (the creators of the Frostbite engine) and their approach to modding, this seems highly unlikely. Those who have attempted to mod Battlefield games made under Frostbite have said they encountered stiff opposition, both from the system's manner of design to DICE themselves banning gamers who used mods (due to its effect on MP matches).

#80
Zatche

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I use mods pretty sparingly, so I no, I wouldn't pay for it. But all the power to those of you who would. I appreciate the unofficial bug fixes.

#81
Grieving Natashina

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I use mods pretty sparingly, so I no, I wouldn't pay for it. But all the power to those of you who would. I appreciate the unofficial bug fixes.

Me too, thanks for the bug fixes.  Oh and thanks for the gorgeous armor sets to all you hard working modders out there!

 

Mods do add to my replayablity, but mainly due to bug fixes (couldn't get through Awakening without them,) the armor, and the increased CC options.  I'm hoping that the modders will be able to do stuff like this again, but I could certainly live without it.  

 

On topic: While I can understand the desire for a toolkit, frankly I doubt they'll ever release one.  For free or for sale.  I think they mentioned at one point that in order to do that, they'd have to clear it with DICE and get all sorts of permission.  Unlike Origins, which was largely done with in-house software, they are using a lot more third party tools.  I hope the modders can work with it, but I don't think a toolkit for Inquisition is ever going to happen.  :(



#82
AlanC9

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No.  And I'd rather there was no modding at all.  So many of DA:O problems were 'fixed' with mods.  It shouldn't have to be that way.
 
If the new game did not have modding, maybe they'd be incentivised to get it right, or they know what would happen.


We need something besides the "like" button for posts like this.
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#83
addiction21

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I use mods pretty sparingly, so I no, I wouldn't pay for it. But all the power to those of you who would. I appreciate the unofficial bug fixes.

 

Question:

 

If you were to see there was a active modding community and they had fixes and mods you wanted for a game you liked. Would you be willing to chip in a little bit?


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#84
StrangeStrategy

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I don't like how people change what someone spent months or years working on just so they can like it better. That's like approving of someone who gives the Mona Lisa a mustache because they think it'd be better with one. 

 

I guess its a good thing mods are 100% optional then. If you look at the most of the mods on DA Nexus, so many of them are adding new content rather than editing old ones.

Saying you disapprove of someone being creative and talented and uploading their work so that others may enjoy it if they wish is sort of... grinchy...


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#85
Captain Bonecold

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No. I wouldn't buy a modding thing. This is a bad idea. Then what about DLC? Companies need to make more money. Lets say this mod tool was out. And you discover secret DLC material. Then what stopping you from releasing this information to the world? DLC is killed off because someone open there mouth about it in the modding word. Also no. Then loot drops would be max out.  Or what if this game goes online? You make a lv whatever dragon. And it too easy and that it gets kill by 1 hit. Then what?

 

Modding is bad. It not like skyrim with ugly skins. Our skin texture pattern will be amazing. Or at least good.  And what do you need mod tools for. A hardcore gamer doesn't need these tools. That like getting the best item without effort.

 

Here how bad this could be: You kill the high dragon. You gain max money unit and 1000000 exp. You get best armor and weapon in game. And lots of potions and loot. All in one effort. And this high dragon is level 1. That what some people would do if they could mod.

 

You put modding in the game. You take away the challenge in the game.



#86
Shapeshifter777

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No. I wouldn't buy a modding thing. This is a bad idea. Then what about DLC? Companies need to make more money. Lets say this mod tool was out. And you discover secret DLC material. Then what stopping you from releasing this information to the world? DLC is killed off because someone open there mouth about it in the modding word. Also no. Then loot drops would be max out.  Or what if this game goes online? You make a lv whatever dragon. And it too easy and that it gets kill by 1 hit. Then what?

 

Modding is bad. It not like skyrim with ugly skins. Our skin texture pattern will be amazing. Or at least good.  And what do you need mod tools for. A hardcore gamer doesn't need these tools. That like getting the best item without effort.

 

Here how bad this could be: You kill the high dragon. You gain max money unit and 1000000 exp. You get best armor and weapon in game. And lots of potions and loot. All in one effort. And this high dragon is level 1. That what some people would do if they could mod.

 

You put modding in the game. You take away the challenge in the game.

 

Despite having mod tools, Skyrim sold TONS of official DLC. No one used modding to pirate the DLC.  Somehow Bethesda prevented that.  Perhaps somehow Bioware could do the same.

 

Also, I believe you are mistaking ''modding'' with hacking or cheating.  Despite having made plenty of mods for plenty of games, I never felt tempted to use it for cheating as that would take away the entire point of playing the game in the first place.


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#87
Captain Bonecold

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Despite having mod tools, Skyrim sold TONS of official DLC. No one used modding to pirate the DLC.  Somehow Bethesda prevented that.  Perhaps somehow Bioware could do the same.

 

Also, I believe you are mistaking ''modding'' with hacking or cheating.  Despite having made plenty of mods for plenty of games, I never felt tempted to use it for cheating as that would take away the entire point of playing the game in the first place.

It allows a change in the game. And even those mods allow for you to gain lots of gold from repeatable quests that are mod made.

 

The elder scrolls will always have mods. And modding yourself some gold would not be consider cheating to you? You make your own quest. That means you make your own rewards. And your own loot drops. And enemy type. And what enemies you face. What to stop people from making easy gold grinding areas? Not a thing with mods.

 

Also skyrim had to be rebuilt to stop modding from happening on DLC. 



#88
addiction21

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No one used modding to pirate the DLC.  Somehow Bethesda prevented that. 

 

"Modding" is not needed to pirate DLC and no Bethesda did no prevent that.  I am not going further because in breaks the forums rules but you are wrong.



#89
Captain Bonecold

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Modding is like flipping off the creators of the game.  And saying you can do better. Remember these guys have years of training and tolls to fix common mistakes. And the programing. Getting everything to work.  Making sure everything fits in properly. Armor styles and right type of armor. How it looks. How it looks on dwarfs and elfs and humans. There no short cuts to that. Unless you want to make the armor look awful and have glitches.

 

Alot of hard work. And on top of that do you realize all the hard work it would take for modding program that they have to create if they do create one? Money time and effort. Most games aren't worth it. And Dragon Age games don't need your modding tools. I like playing fair in the game.



#90
ShinsFortress

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Yeah... that's not how things work.

9vzYQwj.jpg

DA2 was shipped with many bugs, in both the base campaign and the DLC, that were never fixed via official patches, let alone sent out right the first time. The absence of a toolkit does not equate better quality.

 

Pity.  Ah well, each to their own.  Democracy...  If most people want modding, let it in!



#91
Fast Jimmy

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Modding is like flipping off the creators of the game. And saying you can do better. Remember these guys have years of training and tolls to fix common mistakes. And the programing. Getting everything to work. Making sure everything fits in properly. Armor styles and right type of armor. How it looks. How it looks on dwarfs and elfs and humans. There no short cuts to that. Unless you want to make the armor look awful and have glitches.

Alot of hard work. And on top of that do you realize all the hard work it would take for modding program that they have to create if they do create one? Money time and effort. Most games aren't worth it. And Dragon Age games don't need your modding tools. I like playing fair in the game.

You do realize that in nearly every game, there are console commands that can killallhostiles or cause unlimited gold to drop from the sky, right? Cheating is possible for every game in the world. You can edit your save game, you can use console commands or you can find cheats the developers put into the system... this isn't a valid critique of modkits.
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#92
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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Modding is like flipping off the creators of the game.  

 

Developers work with more constraints. This means they have to allocate a limited number of time to a certain aspects. A developer would rather ship a product with bugs and fix them later than spend all year now fixing them(of course this depends on the critical nature of the bugs). Modders usually concentrate on specific aspects of the system in an attempt to improve them. They might do a better job, but this isn't exactly flipping the developers off. The developers know they have a limited time to concentrate on certain aspects of the game.

 

Modding reminds me of the open source community due to the ability to customize. With the open source community you find that people that usually participate in these communities are really interested in the project and end up taking more care in it. All in order to improve it.


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#93
In Exile

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Modding is like flipping off the creators of the game.  And saying you can do better. Remember these guys have years of training and tolls to fix common mistakes. And the programing. Getting everything to work.  Making sure everything fits in properly. Armor styles and right type of armor. How it looks. How it looks on dwarfs and elfs and humans. There no short cuts to that. Unless you want to make the armor look awful and have glitches.

 

Alot of hard work. And on top of that do you realize all the hard work it would take for modding program that they have to create if they do create one? Money time and effort. Most games aren't worth it. And Dragon Age games don't need your modding tools. I like playing fair in the game.

 

When developers make a mod kid available to you, it's pretty ridiculous to say you're flipping them off by using it. 

It's like saying I'm flipping off lego if I just go off on my own to build whatever I like


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#94
Endurium

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As pointed out this isn't likely to be a factor in DA:I, but if it was: only if the toolset was robust as has been mentioned before. DAO's toolset can't load the larger maps. I'm certainly glad I didn't pay for it.



#95
Zatche

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Question:

If you were to see there was a active modding community and they had fixes and mods you wanted for a game you liked. Would you be willing to chip in a little bit?


So, if the modders have to pay for the toolset, would I pitch in to somehow offset their costs? I'd probably feel guilted into it.

#96
slimgrin

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Modding is like flipping off the creators of the game.  

Then I guess CDPR, Larian, Egosoft and Bethesda like being flipped off.


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#97
AlanC9

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The elder scrolls will always have mods. And modding yourself some gold would not be consider cheating to you? You make your own quest. That means you make your own rewards. And your own loot drops. And enemy type. And what enemies you face. What to stop people from making easy gold grinding areas? Not a thing with mods.


So? Who the hell cares what other players do?
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#98
Captain Bonecold

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You do realize that in nearly every game, there are console commands that can killallhostiles or cause unlimited gold to drop from the sky, right? Cheating is possible for every game in the world. You can edit your save game, you can use console commands or you can find cheats the developers put into the system... this isn't a valid critique of modkits.

I love how people tell me about this kill codes. That are created for test mode. Modding adds an easier access to cheating.



#99
Captain Bonecold

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Then I guess CDPR, Larian, Egosoft and Bethesda like being flipped off.

Yep. They love it for pc. However you every try to mod a game for consoles much more work is need.



#100
Captain Bonecold

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So? Who the hell cares what other players do?

Trophies and achievements aren't important to you? What if there character was to go online. Think about all the cheating they could do if they were to have pvp matches. Unfair. So someone who cheats the game. And Gets the same Trophy as you gets it because they cheat. And you bust your butt off for that trophy is consider fair to you?