51 réponses à ce sujet

[EddyCosta]

Is it just me that thinks that enemies in DA:Inquisition are too damn slow and clumsy? I mean, in the video clips that i've watched of the game (including the ones of e3 2014) while a main character wielding a sword and shield makes 3 or 4 moves, an equally equipped enemy makes 1 or 2 moves, AND, looks like a drunk compared to the main chars. This was even worse in DA:II, but is still present in DA: Inquisition, and, for me at least, is very annoying, because it looks like i'm a superpowered killing machine battling against amateurs. In my opinion this is something that the developers should look into. I would be very grateful if they did.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would very much hope that the PC and his enemies would move at similar speeds, and have access to similar combat abilities.

 

Symmetrical combat is good.  Asymmetrical combat is not.

[Deflagratio]

Technically you are a "Superpowered killing machine battling against amateurs" that's the whole idea of the "Protagonist" in a game setting. Origins only seemed different because basic attacks were on a very definite timer, and even then the player could typically optimize special ability timing in a way the AI couldn't.

 

 

Honestly, attack frequency may be tied to difficulty setting. I know in Origins, Nightmare difficulty had enemies utilize abilities much more often, and even more often they were dangerous ones. Perhaps the demos are just run on an easy setting? That's fairly typical.

[Provi-dance]

I find this asymmetry very annoying and pointless.

 

It's not just the immense attack speed difference that bothers me, but also the huge discrepancy in HP/damage between party members and enemies.

 

[Deflagratio]

I find this asymmetry very annoying and pointless.

 

It's not just the immense attack speed difference that bothers me, but also the huge discrepancy in HP/damage between party members and enemies.

 

 

Alexius I assume is the primary target of your ire, with his 10,000HP right? I'd point out that he's obviously a boss enemy. The Templar Defender or w/e the enemy with the shield that had 2,000HP was classified as an "Elite" enemy, probably on the same order (And by the looks of it, same AI package) as a Venatori Guard. (The Towershield Enemy from PAX)

 

Does this excuse the asymmetry? No, but I think more than making sure everything "Looks right" from a perspective that really just boils down to a presentation complaint, the game's combat needs to play well first.

[Nyeredzi]

Same paced movements are what made dao's combat good to me

[Provi-dance]

Alexius I assume is the primary target of your ire, with his 10,000HP right? I'd point out that he's obviously a boss enemy. The Templar Defender or w/e the enemy with the shield that had 2,000HP was classified as an "Elite" enemy, probably on the same order (And by the looks of it, same AI package) as a Venatori Guard. (The Towershield Enemy from PAX)

 

Does this excuse the asymmetry? No, but I think more than making sure everything "Looks right" from a perspective that really just boils down to a presentation complaint, the game's combat needs to play well first.

 

I assure you there's no "ire", sweetheart, you don't have to be scared. The T.D. is close to 3000 HP, actually. The classification of enemies in categories with completely different mechanics is a problem in itself too.

 

This is not about "looking right". Saying "combat needs to play well" is useless feedback (and I'm not sure I'd call it feedback at alI).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Same paced movements are what made dao's combat good to me

Exactly. Imagine if DA2's enemies had moved at the same speed and had access to the same abilities as Hawke. That combat would have been impossibly chaotic and hard to follow. But the symmetry is important, so the only way to fix that is to slow everyone down.

[Boss Fog]

I've been blowing the horn for a more even and symmetrical combat state for awhile now.  This ridiculous fad that RPGs have picked up needs to die quickly.  No more footsoldiers with 3000 hp!

[In Exile]

Exactly. Imagine if DA2's enemies had moved at the same speed and had access to the same abilities as Hawke. That combat would have been impossibly chaotic and hard to follow. But the symmetry is important, so the only way to fix that is to slow everyone down.

 

With a pause button, I don't think it would have been just as manageable as DA2 was; honestly, giving enemies the ability to close in as fast as the player could in melee would have made the combat more interesting. 

[Araceil]

That was one of the things I really liked about Orgins combat is that the enemy would use the same abilities as the player could same with Mass effect 1. It spiced the combat up a lot more than increasing the animation speed and giving enemies 300000 hp ever did.   

[EddyCosta]

Wow, i didn't know there were so many people that felt the same way i do about that. I wonder how the developers don't realize how ridiculous the combat gets with this asymmetry. I mean, they don't need to give to the enemies the same moveset of the main characters, i think that is cool to have a difference, but not so big as it is now. The problem is that i think the game is at a too late development stage to do any changes to the combat mecanics =/. What do you guys think? Is it possible to do any alteration in the combat system until game release?

[Mes]

... And here I am, worried that the combat is too difficult!! Okay fine, I guess I'll be the only one dying within the first five minutes. The rest of you pro/nerd gamers go on ahead. It's fine. Leave me be.

 

Is it just me that thinks that enemies in DA:Inquisition are too damn slow and clumsy? I mean, in the video clips that i've watched of the game (including the ones of e3 2014) while a main character wielding a sword and shield makes 3 or 4 moves, an equally equipped enemy makes 1 or 2 moves, AND, looks like a drunk compared to the main chars. This was even worse in DA:II, but is still present in DA: Inquisition, and, for me at least, is very annoying, because it looks like i'm a superpowered killing machine battling against amateurs. In my opinion this is something that the developers should look into. I would be very grateful if they did.

 

I wonder if the demos just showed easy/casual difficulties???

[Boss Fog]

I wonder if the demos just showed easy/casual difficulties???

Doubtful, DA2 followed the same formula no matter what difficulty it was played on.

[AkiKishi]

The two sides rarely fight by the same rules regardless of the game. Fire Emblem is fairly close, although you can butcher the latest one by giving all of your second generation the second wind skill.

One of the easiest ways to make the game more difficult is to make stuff harder to kill, this in turn means that characters controlled by the player become offensive builds since dead stuff won't hit back and tanking will only get you so far unless you want to spend a very long time fighting. Waves were another consequence of this miss-match in DA2.

 

Something like BG was very balanced in the lower levels as one hit could kill either you or the enemy. Something like that would not go down well today, especially with the hassles that death involved (the dead did not just simply pop up after combat).

[Zatche]

... And here I am, worried that the combat is too difficult!! Okay fine, I guess I'll be the only one dying within the first five minutes. The rest of you pro/nerd gamers go on ahead. It's fine. Leave me be.

I wonder if the demos just showed easy/casual difficulties???

The demo was certainly made to be easier than easy, so the drivers could get through and show everything. The mage boss could hardly make a move because the protagonist's attacks kept knocking him back. I doubt that has anything to with what the OP is referring to with regards to slower enemies and I haven't seen anything to indicate that enemies will be more responsive at higher difficulties (though I would prefer that).

And I'm sure you'll do fine with the lower difficulties.

[Mes]

And I'm sure you'll do fine with the lower difficulties.

 

I typically play on normal these days, especially Bioware games. Though if the combat is really entertaining I might give something higher a go.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The two sides rarely fight by the same rules regardless of the game.

This is something that needs to be fixed.

[In Exile]

This is something that needs to be fixed.

 

There's no real good way to do that, because the AI can't use the rules well without cheating. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

There's no real good way to do that, because the AI can't use the rules well without cheating.

The encounters can be designed to give them.an advantage.

And again, you assume that challenge or difficulty is somehow relevant.

[In Exile]

The encounters can be designed to give them.an advantage.

And again, you assume that challenge or difficulty is somehow relevant.

 

I wasn't focusing on the challenge - just on the goal: that the player and the CPU be on the same footing. The aim behind a ruleset is to achieve that, no? But because the player and the CPU are different in kind, having the sale rules applied to both, when factoring in their abilities, actually means different effective rules applied to each. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I wasn't focusing on the challenge - just on the goal: that the player and the CPU be on the same footing. The aim behind a ruleset is to achieve that, no? But because the player and the CPU are different in kind, having the sale rules applied to both, when factoring in their abilities, actually means different effective rules applied to each. 

My goal is that the game world makes sense.  That's the equal footing I seek.

 

That I am better able to exploit the game world when compared to my enemies surprises me not at all.

[The Hierophant]

I'd also like it if the humanoid enemies used equipable armor and weapons that alters their stats, like the pc.

[xXxshemlifexXx]

Level scaling's been done away with at least, so all I have to hope for now is that they learned how encounter design works outside of teleporting sky thugs and ANOTHER WAVE!!

[Loc'n'lol]

Is it using an asymetrical ruleset like DA2 where enemies have a bajillion HP and you a hundred-something ?...

ughk.

Hope the numbers can be hidden, then.