28 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I am really curious as to how much information we are going to be given about a Vashoth Inquisitor or whether it is going to be entirely left up to us to create our own backstory.    I would find this tricky, particularly if playing a Vashoth mage, as there is so little to go on.

 

With the other races we had the opportunity at the beginning of DAO to spend some time exploring our community and getting an idea of what it was like to grow up there.   Then the game and DA2 expanded on this by having to visit different communities and interact with them.   We now have a reasonably good idea of what it is like to be a human noble, a penniless human commoner (Hawke), a city elf, a Dalish elf, a dwarf noble, a dwarf castles, a Circle mage and an apostate living outside the law (Hawke & Bethany), even without the experiences recounted by our companions.

 

We know about the Qunari from Sten and the Arishok and even Tallis, so you know what the Vashoth were escaping from, but not what it is actually like living as one.    I've been told that the Inquisitor is a second generation Vashoth, so has never been part of the Qun, but if that is the case, how did their parents survive?   Was it as mercenaries integrated into society, a bit like Iron Bull, or as bandits, outcasts and preying on others, as many do?    Since we have never seen a qunari female up to now, they have to be pretty rare outside the Qun but clearly you would need both male and female to have a second generation Vashoth.   From what we have been told so far, there is no Vashoth community or culture like you have with the Dalish.

 

Then there are the mages.  Normally those who leave the Qun do so as part of a larger group who still tend to keep them on leashes, presumably because fear of mages is so ingrained.   So a mage would be even less likely to be in contact with other Vashoth.   What are the chances of a mage child being born to a random couple of Vashoth?   If they were living as part of a wider human community, the child would likely be whisked off to the Circle at an early age.   So this suggests, if they are an apostate, they lived much of their life remote from the general populace.    

 

Is there any source, other than game codices and the Wiki, that has information on this or I am right in thinking we are waiting for further information?

[mikeymoonshine]

I did a thread about how A vashoth mage would need some kind of back story to explain how they got training. qunquizy could easily just be a circle mage though. It could be an interesting back story in itself seeing as we have never heard of a qunari circle mage before. 

 

Females are rare because most Tal-Vashoth/Vashoth are from the Antaam and they are all male. They are the only Qunari who openly deal with outsiders so it's just allot easier to leave. Ben-Hassrath spies are more likely to be other races for obvious reasons. Iron Bull isn't though and there could be some female qunari Ben-Hassrath outside of Qunari lands, it's just something that would be very rare. That doesn't mean a female couldn't just leave though, it would be harder to escape but not impossible. 

 

There are actually meant to be qunari communities outside of the Qun but not much is known about the, I assume they would have to have females. 

[LobselVith8]

Is there any source, other than game codices and the Wiki, that has information on this or I am right in thinking we are waiting for further information?

 

I think we need more information. Not much is known about the racial backgrounds. According to LadyInsanity's blog about the Panel Breakdown from PAX, Vashoth "mages will have magic similar to what we see Ferelden/Orlesian-trained mages. The history behind Saarebas magic will be explored, and its culture down the line will be illustrated, but the player’s Inquisitor will not show in this game."

[Gervaise]

Qunari communities outside the Qun or Vashoth?    This is where it would be so much easier if they had kept to a separate name for the grey skinned giants to differentiate from the religion.    There are definitely Qunari communities outside the Qun, if by the Qun you mean their home base of Par Vollen and possibly Seheron.  There are a large number of communities in Rivain and this would appear to be where most of the defections occur and the greatest amount of conflict between Qunari and Tal-Vashoth occurs.    However, the codex in game regarding Tal-Vashoth says that they do not have actual communities or culture to bring them together into a cohesive group.   So there are no qunari communities (generic term for race rather than religion) outside of the Qun.    The nearest you get would be, say, a long standing mercenary or robber band that had females as part of the group that originally broke away. 

 

Now I quite happily stand to be corrected on this but if there are meant to be Vashoth communities, then I'd like the Devs to give us some information about where they are located and the general set up within them.   Do they actively seek out other Vashoth and help them?   What are their relations like with the wider community in the area in which they are located?    But in particular their attitude to mages and the Templars, which is very pertinent to the plot.   Like you say, there has never been any mention of Vashoth mages in the Circles before, including in the novels.    That series with Tallis had a Saarabas escaping the Qun but that is not really the same thing.    Unless the information I have been given is incorrect and the Vashoth is a run away, whatever their class, from the Qun, in which case the mage would be a former Saarabas who managed to free themselves from control and escaped.       Next question: Why are they at the peace conference?

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I imagine they must be very similar to the Dalish.  That is... they're isolationist nomads.  Safest way I can see them retconning these communities existing in the non-Qunari inhabited regions of Thedas without being noticed or mentioned in past games.  If they had set, stable communities someone would have noticed them.  Being that most races don't know the difference between Qunari and Vashoth they would also draw suspiscion and hostility.  It would be in their best interest to stay mobile and low-profile.

[Gervaise]

In which case our Vashoth should have really good training in stealth, scouting and survival.   If there is a community out there somewhere they must be really good at evading the notice of others, not to have made a mention anywhere in the lore of Thedas up to now.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Either that or they just stick to extremely remote environments.  Environments other communties would avoid because they were extraordinarily harsh or had scarce resources.

[Gervaise]

May be they're the Fremen of the Thedas world.   There's this vast expanse of desert (or other wilderness location) where you think no one could possibly live but when you get there you discover it's full of their hideouts.   And they're tougher than even the normal Qunari because their environment has made them that way.  Really useful to get on your side if only you can get them to trust you.

[Han Shot First]

I could see a community of Vashoth existing in the Frostback mountains. It's remote and most of the human settlements are below the foothills. A small village at higher elevation and off the beaten path might be able to remain undetected. Haven for example went mostly undetected for centuries.

[leaguer of one]

This is a big miss understanding.  Vashoth does not mean born outside the qun. It mean qunari who no longer fallows the qun.

 

"When Qunari abandon the teachings of Qun they become known as Vashoth in the Qunari society and eventually they have to leave or risk re-education by the Ben-Hassrath."

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Tal-Vashoth

 

The statement about the qunari be technique Vashoth does not mean they were never qunari. It just means what they are now. Becoming a Tal-Vashoth is a title an individual places on one self. I'm betting only the mage qunari was ever raised or born outside of the qun.

[Han Shot First]

This is a big miss understanding.  Vashoth does not mean born outside the qun. It mean qunari who no longer fallows the qun.

 

"When Qunari abandon the teachings of Qun they become known as Vashoth in the Qunari society and eventually they have to leave or risk re-education by the Ben-Hassrath."

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Tal-Vashoth

 

The statement about the qunari be technique Vashoth does not mean they were never qunari. It just means what they are now. Becoming a Tal-Vashoth is a title an individual places on one self. I'm betting only the mage qunari was ever raised or born outside of the qun.

 

Even so I'd still guess that the Qunari Inquisitor was likely born outside the Qun. Having the Qunari character born a Vashoth gives the character more freedom to adopt pro-Qun views during the course of the game.

 

It would make a lot less sense to have a character who was already exposed to the Qun and said "Nope!", go that route.

[leaguer of one]

Even so I'd still guess that the Qunari Inquisitor was likely born outside the Qun. Having the Qunari character born a Vashoth gives the character more freedom to adopt pro-Qun views during the course of the game.

 

It would make a lot less sense to have a character who was already exposed to the Qun and said "Nope!", go that route.

That's not true at all. Both born in and out have an equal amount of outside view adoption. We have characters like Maraas and Armaas that prove that some one born in the qun and adapt out side of it.

Added, their is nothing stopping a person from being pro qunari. BW never stated a person can be pro qun in DAI.

[Han Shot First]

That's not true at all. Both born in and out have an equal amount of outside view adoption. We have characters like Maraas and Armaas that prove that some one born in the qun and adapt out side of it.

 

It doesn't make as much sense for someone who was once Qunari (in the religious sense) and became Vashoth, to later adopt pro-Qun views during the course of the game. If that character liked the Qun and believed in its teachings, why did he or she reject and flee from its teachings in the first place?

 

Having the character born a Vashoth gives the player more freedom to shape their character. In that scenario it was the parents' choice to leave the Qun, rather than the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor then has a bit more freedom to decide whether or not to follow the same road, or to embrace the Qun his or her parents rejected.

[AresKeith]

That's not true at all. Both born in and out have an equal amount of outside view adoption. We have characters like Maraas and Armaas that prove that some one born in the qun and adapt out side of it.
Added, their is nothing stopping a person from being pro qunari. BW never stated a person can be pro qun in DAI.

I think a Dalish can be anti-Dalish, so it wouldn't make sense if a qunari PC can't be pro-Qun.

Plus we have Iron Bull, so yes it would make more sense if they was born outside the Qun

[mikeymoonshine]

Qunari communities outside the Qun or Vashoth?    This is where it would be so much easier if they had kept to a separate name for the grey skinned giants to differentiate from the religion.    There are definitely Qunari communities outside the Qun, if by the Qun you mean their home base of Par Vollen and possibly Seheron.  There are a large number of communities in Rivain and this would appear to be where most of the defections occur and the greatest amount of conflict between Qunari and Tal-Vashoth occurs.    However, the codex in game regarding Tal-Vashoth says that they do not have actual communities or culture to bring them together into a cohesive group.   So there are no qunari communities (generic term for race rather than religion) outside of the Qun.    The nearest you get would be, say, a long standing mercenary or robber band that had females as part of the group that originally broke away. 

 

Now I quite happily stand to be corrected on this but if there are meant to be Vashoth communities, then I'd like the Devs to give us some information about where they are located and the general set up within them.   Do they actively seek out other Vashoth and help them?   What are their relations like with the wider community in the area in which they are located?    But in particular their attitude to mages and the Templars, which is very pertinent to the plot.   Like you say, there has never been any mention of Vashoth mages in the Circles before, including in the novels.    That series with Tallis had a Saarabas escaping the Qun but that is not really the same thing.    Unless the information I have been given is incorrect and the Vashoth is a run away, whatever their class, from the Qun, in which case the mage would be a former Saarabas who managed to free themselves from control and escaped.       Next question: Why are they at the peace conference?

 

I generally use qunari to describe the race and Qunari to describe the society. What I meant was that there are actually meant to be communities of the grey skinned people who are not part of the Qun and not Tal-Vashoth. Not much is known about them atm though and I think they are all kinda small. 

 

The Tal-Vashoth don't have one singular culture or a singular goals because they all choose to defy the Qun in their own way. I don't think that means Tal-Vashoth can't have communities though. It's just that they aren't a singular group. 

 

There is allot about the lore that is unknown atm, I actually can't remember much about these qunari communities other than they are mentioned somewhere in the lore and that not much is said about them. Maybe this game will explore this though. 

 

As for why they are at the peace conference well we don't know. Seems like allot of people think bodyguard for the Non mage qunari and part of a mage group or faction for the mage qunari. 

[leaguer of one]

It doesn't make as much sense for someone who was once Qunari (in the religious sense) and became Vashoth, to later adopt pro-Qun views during the course of the game. If that character liked the Qun and believed in its teachings, why did he or she reject and flee from its teachings in the first place?

 

Having the character born a Vashoth gives the player more freedom to shape their character. In that scenario it was the parents' choice to leave the Qun, rather than the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor then has a bit more freedom to decide whether or not to follow the same road, or to embrace the Qun his or her parents rejected.

That can be said about a dalish warden allowing a dalish clan to be killed off, a circle mage warden to all a right of annulment, and a dwarven noble to allow their back stabbing brother to be king.(And believe me I did that last one.)

Remember, it a game that allows the player to choose what happen to their character, even choice that may not make sense to other looking on the outside. Just because the choice makes no sense to you does not mean it can't make sense to someone else.

 

A vashoth background born inside and outside the qun has an equal amount of freedom. The limit of what they can do is based on the player, background is not the final say on what a player character will do. We can have a commoner Elf not kill Vaughan ether both time they could do it and it would make sense because the player can make it so.

[leaguer of one]

I think a Dalish can be anti-Dalish, so it wouldn't make sense if a qunari PC can't be pro-Qun.

Plus we have Iron Bull, so yes it would make more sense if they was born outside the Qun

I'm not saying that a qunari can't be pro qunari.

[mikeymoonshine]

That can be said about a dalish warden allowing a dalish clan to be killed off, a circle mage warden to all a right of annulment, and a dwarven noble to allow their back stabbing brother to be king.(And believe me I did that last one.)

Remember, it a game that allows the player to choose what happen to their character, even choice that may not make sense to other looking on the outside. Just because the choice makes no sense to you does not mean it can't make sense to someone else.

 

A vashoth background born inside and outside the qun has an equal amount of freedom. The limit of what they can do is based on the player, background is not the final say on what a player character will do. We can have a commoner Elf not kill Vaughan ether both time they could do it and it would make sense because the player can make it so.

 

My Aeuducan Warden figured it would be better to have an Aeuducan on the throne and she always respected Bhelen for besting her at the political game. The only thing that I can think of is that now she is a paragon she would probably try to kill him and have herself crowned like she originally intended. I doubt the devs will allow for that particular head canon of mine though. 

[leaguer of one]

My Aeuducan Warden figured it would be better to have an Aeuducan on the throne and she always respected him for besting her at the political game. The only thing that I can think of is that now she is a paragon she would probably try to kill him and have herself crowned like she originally intended. I doubt the devs will allow for that particular head canon of mine though. 

You're just proving my point. My point is just because the option make no sense to one person to pick who pick a certain one background does not mean that option won't make sense to another who picked the same background.

[Han Shot First]

That can be said about a dalish warden allowing a dalish clan to be killed off, a circle mage warden to all a right of annulment, and a dwarven noble to allow their back stabbing brother to be king.(And believe me I did that last one.)

Remember, it a game that allows the player to choose what happen to their character, even choice that may not make sense to other looking on the outside. Just because the choice makes no sense to you does not mean it can't make sense to someone else.

 

A vashoth background born inside and outside the qun has an equal amount of freedom. The limit of what they can do is based on the player, background is not the final say on what a player character will do. We can have a commoner Elf not kill Vaughan ether both time they could do it and it would make sense because the player can make it so.

 

Sure and you can also have a human noble Cousland side with Loghain, the main who sanctioned (even if after the fact) your own family's brutal murder. 

 

I'm not saying the option wouldn't be there for a Qunari Inquisitor born within the Qun, just that it makes *more* sense for someone born outside the Qun who didn't personally choose to become an apostate. I think an Inquisitor born an apostate is a better choice for that reason. 

[mikeymoonshine]

You're just proving my point. My point is just because the option make no sense to one person to pick who pick a certain one background does not mean that option won't make sense to another who picked the same background.

 

Oh I know I was just providing a personal example coz it reminded me of that, I wasn't disagreeing with you. 

[The Ascendant]

I think we will encounter a situation similar to Malcolm and Leandra. Here is my theory.
Our father was a warrior/rogue/mage (depending on our class choice) who fell in love with our mother a Tamassaran. Together they fled the Qun and settled in Orlais. Your father became a mercenary to provide for the family and taught you how to fight. Your mother taught you about the Qun in order to fool any Ben-Hassrath. Like your father you become a mercenary in order to make a living. You are hired by your employer to accompany them to the peace talks. And that's why your there.
As a Vasoth who knows about the Qun but was never a part of it you offer a unique insight on your race and culture. Wonder how you will interact with the Iron Bull, a Ben-Hassrath.

[leaguer of one]

Sure and you can also have a human noble Cousland side with Loghain, the main who sanctioned (even if after the fact) your own family's brutal murder. 

 

I'm not saying the option wouldn't be there for a Qunari Inquisitor born within the Qun, just that it makes *more* sense for someone born outside the Qun who didn't personally choose to become an apostate. I think an Inquisitor born an apostate is a better choice for that reason. 

Again, that's up to the player.  A choice not making any sense to you does not mean It's impossible for someone to choose it.  Backgrounds don't limit the players choices, the player does. The player will make it make sense.

[Feybrad]

I personally hope that the Qunari/Vashoth we get to play will not have had much Contact with the Qun. If we are indeed Tal-Vashoth, thus one voluntarily choosing to abandon the Qun-philosophy, that would make serious roleplaying as a Qun-Follower illogical (even if we get the options to do so, we had to make up some Head Canon to why to do so and it's always better to have a "real" Canon explanation for things). It would also add a very nteresting Dynamic with iron Bull - namely, if the Player would want it so - teaching the Vashoth about the Qun to make him a real Qunari.

[Schreckstoff]

I want to use my Qunari to shatter the Qun.