59 réponses à ce sujet

[Kingsy]

Hey guys! Do you think like in previous games it will be ideal to have a rogue and mage in the party at all times? In order to unlock chests and provide a source of healing? I ask this because I plan on using certain party combinations that may or may not include them. To be specific I actually want to do playthroughs where I'm running with an all mage, all warrior and all rogue party lol.

 

     This was pretty prevalent in the last two games where there were tons of juicy locked chests and mages who could heal were invaluable and significantly increased survivability (especially in Origins). So my question is do you get the impression thus far that there will be lot's of locked chests that only rogues can unlock? Will battles be considerably more difficult without a mage healing?

 

     I was hoping just maybe this wouldn't be the case and that perhaps there would be other means of unlocking chests. Maybe through crafting you can create various lockpicks or how about those out-of-battle abilities that were announced? As for healing I'm aware it was announced awhile ago that it is being approached differently so that it is more limited, even for mages. But limited to the extent that running without a healing mage is negligible? Curious.

[katerinafm]

Last time lockpicking was brought up, they said that lockpicking is still a rogue ability. Unfortunately despite it being a great way to give you the option to not have a rogue in your party at all times, bashing locks is not an option (like it was in baldur's gate). Sad because that bashing locks option was in DAO, it just wasn't activated in the end (you can with mods).

 

An ideal for this would be to bring the lock picking skill tree back from origins, but make it available for all classes. Any class that wants to lock pick would be able to do so if they can spare the skill points once they level up.

 

As for mages that provide healing I'm guessing they are going to be very valuable, especially with the limited healing we're going to have this time around. Can't see a way around this unless there is a way around the health potions carry limit that they've said will be in DAI.

[Abraham_uk]

If lock picking was available to all classes, some people might complain.

I'd welcome the idea, but not everyone would be on board.

[Lebanese Dude]

I don't get this request. The game is balanced around having a party comprised of three different classes. If you choose to ignore a class, then you also choose to ignore whatever utility they bring. This is like asking them to implement stronger potions in order to avoid bringing a mage, or allow us always be able to talk out our way out of a situation without Varric around. 

 

No. I don't agree with this. Homogenization is rarely good for gameplay.

 

[Bob from Accounting]

Frankly, unless there's a minigame, I'm not sure lockpicking should be a skill in the first place. And even then, plenty of games have worked fine with a lockpicking minigame without a skill attached to it. 

 

It seems to be a skill based very little on 'gaining' anything positive and very heavily on avoiding an arbitrary frustrating obstacle. I expect to be able to open chests in games by default. There's not a whole lot of satisfaction in being able to open a chest, there's just a lack of frustration. That does not strike me as particularly good design.

 

Also, as someone who knows how to pick locks in real life, it's a fairly trivial skill to learn. At least compared to something like combat. Most people can become proficient enough to pick 95% of locks with a couple of days of practice. So having it barred to two classes is not something I'm incredibly happy with.

[In Exile]

Chest have mostly garbage in them, so I'm not sure that lockpicking ever matter in DA. 

[Bob from Accounting]

Chest have mostly garbage in them, so I'm not sure that lockpicking ever matter in DA. 

 

This is true. Being annoyed at leaving chests behind is much more about satisfying a completionist urge than any real gameplay benefit to the loot, which is generally not particularly worthwhile.

 

Which seems to me as all the more reason to open it to all players.

[Killdren88]

Why tamper with the RPG Formula? Each class has it's own role. Rogues Lockpick and Stab from behind, Warriors cleave, and Mages heal and shoot fire. The exception of course, would be games like Skyrim, where it isn't a party based games where you can do everything. Just leave it alone.

[Lebanese Dude]

This is true. Being annoyed at leaving chests behind is much more about satisfying a completionist urge than any real gameplay benefit to the loot, which is generally not particularly worthwhile.

 

Which seems to me as all the more reason to open it to all players.

 

So bring a rogue.

[Bob from Accounting]

I really don't particularly care about 'the RPG formula.'

 

Yes, you can just bring a rogue. But that frankly seems like a rather silly cost for a trivial benefit. Consider all the costs of this mechanic:

 

You have to bring a rogue. Which will likely prevent the player from playing around with the characters they want in the party. You generally have a lockpicking skill, which is about as boring of a skill as can be. Something players invest in because they feel they have to, not because it's fun or alluring. You have the frustration of players who missed out on the mechanic for whatever reason.

 

And all of this for, as I said, what amounts to a generally petty gameplay reward in the first place. The 'loot' is rarely anything that significant. The real reward is psychological.

 

All of this, and for what? What does this actually add to the game at all? Is opening chests in RPGs really more satisfying than opening chests in a game like Assassin's Creed 3?

[TheTurtle]

I never thought I'd see the day when I agreed with Bob, but I suppose miracles can happen.

[TurretSyndrome]

I agree. I think lockpicking is very overrated to be a "class skill". It's definitely not as valuable as healing for a Mage, when the loot is simply a collection of very common items. Honestly, if anything Stealth/scouting needs to be more a priority to be improved as a class skill for Rogues. 

 

Stealth for Rogues

Healing for Mages

 

Can't find a worthy one for Warrior as I think gate bashing is just as stupid as lock picking.

[Feybrad]

I think, DA2 handled at least lockpicking better than DA:O. That it was tied to a Skill instead something we would even waste Skill Points on. But honestly, I agree with most of the Others - those locked Chests are just a Liability, since they can NEVER have something important in them (because, as a Gemadesigner, you have to take those players into account, who don't bring anyone with a lockpicking skill or are too bad to beat a Minigame - so they can't put anything important into locked Chests). We don't know anything about lockpicking in Inquisition, though.

 

Healing, on the other Hand, was said to be severely nerfed and I think that's kind of a Hope Spot. Additionally, the Spirit Healer Specialization is gone, which means that we most likely won't have a dedicated Healer among our Mages - allowing for more Flexibility. I had to spare Anders in DA2 not because it was in character for my Hawke, but because he was my Healer and I wouldn't have had a Chance beating anything without him. In my second Plytrough, I was the Healer myself.

 

Here, on the other Hand, we will probably be able to make all of our Mages a Healer, which at least doesn't lock us in on one Companion (I dread the Thought of trying to play Origins without Wynne...). I can live with that, since Mages are plotwise the most significant Class and provide mostly another Viewpoint I wouldn#t want to miss.

[In Exile]

This is true. Being annoyed at leaving chests behind is much more about satisfying a completionist urge than any real gameplay benefit to the loot, which is generally not particularly worthwhile.

 

Which seems to me as all the more reason to open it to all players.

 

It just bothers me that - in DA games - I leave XP on the table by not picking locks, etc. In DA:O rogues sucked hard enough that it wasn't worth it even for the XP, but by DA2 Varric was quite powerful and made it a no-brainer to have a rogue with me (unless I had a rogue Hawke, who was comically OP). 

[Lebanese Dude]

I agree. I think lockpicking is very overrated to be a "class skill". It's definitely not as valuable as healing for a Mage, when the loot is simply a collection of very common items. Honestly, if anything Stealth/scouting needs to be more a priority to be improved as a class skill for Rogues. 

 

Stealth for Rogues

Healing for Mages

 

Can't find a worthy one for Warrior as I think gate bashing is just as stupid as lock picking.

 

Tanking.

[Lebanese Dude]

I think, DA2 handled at least lockpicking better than DA:O. That it was tied to a Skill instead something we would even waste Skill Points on. But honestly, I agree with most of the Others - those locked Chests are just a Liability, since they can NEVER have something important in them (because, as a Gemadesigner, you have to take those players into account, who don't bring anyone with a lockpicking skill or are too bad to beat a Minigame - so they can't put anything important into locked Chests). We don't know anything about lockpicking in Inquisition, though.

 

Healing, on the other Hand, was said to be severely nerfed and I think that's kind of a Hope Spot. Additionally, the Spirit Healer Specialization is gone, which means that we most likely won't have a dedicated Healer among our Mages - allowing for more Flexibility. I had to spare Anders in DA2 not because it was in character for my Hawke, but because he was my Healer and I wouldn't have had a Chance beating anything without him. In my second Plytrough, I was the Healer myself.

 

Here, on the other Hand, we will probably be able to make all of our Mages a Healer, which at least doesn't lock us in on one Companion (I dread the Thought of trying to play Origins without Wynne...). I can live with that, since Mages are plotwise the most significant Class and provide mostly another Viewpoint I wouldn#t want to miss.

 

They said they are making lockpicking "more worthwhile".

 

So don't expect ripped pantaloons or whatever that stuff in DA2 was lol

[NoForgiveness]

/shrug Im fine with bringing a rogue. the 2 are awesome and the other one looks like she might be awesome. Whatevs. 

[Daerog]

Healing and lockpicking were never mandatory... from what I remember. It is also not necessary to play on the most difficult setting if you really want to make a party for fun rather than survivability.

 

I like that they are making the classes more separated in what they do.

 

Although, I personally don't care that lockpicking is limited to rogues, they can give it to all the classes and just have the rogues be special in ambushing, traps, disorienting, and ignore armor or something.

[ladyoflate]

I agree. I think lockpicking is very overrated to be a "class skill". It's definitely not as valuable as healing for a Mage, when the loot is simply a collection of very common items. Honestly, if anything Stealth/scouting needs to be more a priority to be improved as a class skill for Rogues. 

 

Stealth for Rogues

Healing for Mages

 

Can't find a worthy one for Warrior as I think gate bashing is just as stupid as lock picking.

 

The way they nerfed stealth in DA2 made it pretty much completely useless to me. I don't use it to randomly disappear in combat for bonuses that are already tied to other skills, I use it for scouting. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense.

[The Elder King]

Well, it was stated classes will have more exploration skills (including lockpicking for rogues) this time. Vivienne was shown restoring a bridge in the offscreen demo.

[ladyoflate]

Hopefully that means stealth makes actual sense again. If they want you to disappear a lot during combat, have some sort of smokescreen skill or something. But keep it separate from something that should be able to be used for scouting.

[In Exile]

The way they nerfed stealth in DA2 made it pretty much completely useless to me. I don't use it to randomly disappear in combat for bonuses that are already tied to other skills, I use it for scouting. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense.

I didn't really see a purpose to scouting in DA:O, so I never felt stealth was nerfed (but only because I never felt it was useful). 

[ladyoflate]

Planning, I am probably somewhat obsessed with it.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I really did hate to have to cart around a rogue in DAO, at least if you're not playing one.

 

1) Leliana's nice enough and all, but sometimes you want to try taking different party lineups.

2) Zevran comes around too damn late, and unless you pull some screwy stuff (or have the PC version with a mod) you get the problem where it takes several levels to get his lockpick up to snuff.

[ladyoflate]

Yeah, one reason I was glad I tend to play rogues was that while I liked both of them, neither really charmed the pants off me as much as, say, Shale.