59 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

I prefer lock picking to depend on the rogues stats rather than being a skill. I still like it being rogues only tho


You don't have to open every chest

[Travie]

Varric is a pretty fun rogue to have around. I won't mind taking him, but it would be nice if there were other options. 

[ShaggyWolf]

I didn't really see a purpose to scouting in DA:O, so I never felt stealth was nerfed (but only because I never felt it was useful). 

 

Awww you missed out on a lot of joy, then. A rogue with maxed stealth could go into a room, fill it with traps, leave, and then you switch to Alistair (Or anyone, really) and run into that room to aggro all the enemies in the room and they kill themselves running through the traps.

 

I am hoping they bring back DA:O's conventional stealth too, ladyoflate. I think the reason they removed that in DA2 was because that stealth+traps combo could be pretty OP. It seems like this time though, traps will be tied to the rogue's artificer specialization, which implies they'd be used through active abilities which the devs have much more control over, so the playstyle could exist but in a balanced manner. Then DA:O stealth could exist with its old scouting utility, but without all the exploit potential. Fingers crossed, anyway!

[ladyoflate]

Even without traps, it was nice to be able to go through and get rid of all the enemy's traps before a warrior accidentally bungled into them, or even just appear suddenly in middle of a group of low-level enemies and stab one in the face and then have my party come roaring around the corner. Many laughs were had.

[In Exile]

Awww you missed out on a lot of joy, then. A rogue with maxed stealth could go into a room, fill it with traps, leave, and then you switch to Alistair (Or anyone, really) and run into that room to aggro all the enemies in the room and they kill themselves running through the traps.

 

Or I could fireball them once, then fireball them again, then fireball them a third time, and anything that survived can just get cone of cold and lightning... whatever to death when they're running on fire towards me. That just sounds like way too much work, franky.

It's why I think stealth is generally useless. 

[ladyoflate]

I suppose it's the difference between Buster Keaton and the Three Stooges. Both physical comedy, one just requires a lot more prep.

[Mr.House]

There should be lock bashing imo.

[BlazinAces30]

nothing about having a rouge or a mage in your party is mandatory 

the game will allow you to have 3 mage party member or any combination of classes

 

until this year of replaying both games, I never had a mage in my party for just healing

I always took Morrigan and she never had any healing spells in DA:O

 

in DA:2 when not playing as a mage I had Bettany and she was all fire and ice until she died in the deep roads

 

A rouge to me is meant to be the thief, scout, so on so on

 

I like having the rouge as only as the one that can pick locks

 

but that is just me

 

don't mind me care on 

[Wintersbreath]

nothing about having a rouge or a mage in your party is mandatory
the game will allow you to have 3 mage party member or any combination of classes

*rogue
Anyway, OP meant whether rogues' lock-picking ability is important enough to keep one in the party, which translates to whether the loot is good enough to always bring a rogue along. And for mages, whether battles are hard enough, or if the occasional bridge-restoring is rewarding enough.

I didn't know about the devs trying to make lock picking more worthwhile but the only problem I have with it is that lore-wise, locks should be easy to break with magic or a shield bash. Unless of course it is made by the dwarves in which case rogues shouldn't be able to successfully lock pick either.

I don't think you'd need to bring a mage for their healing outside of battle but I'm not sure about in-battle. That depends on the difficulty setting. However, seeing that magic now has more uses outside of battle, I'd think the rewards will be good enough in those instances.

[Al Foley]

No, you do not have to bring them, just you can't open up locks and heal characters with mages.  

 

Though in all seriousness this is something that it pains me at first and kind of makes my eye twitch a bit but in the end I just sort of shrug.  I bring up I want.  Why I play at lower difficulties (one of the reasons) in DA anyways.  Sure usually I bring along one healing mage but there are other ways to heal, and the lock picking is...kind of whatever.  But that is why in my last playthrough of DA O, I knew I was going to leave quests in some areas (like the Brecillian forest) where I would go through and do the main quest with my chosen party and then come back with my lockpicking specialized rogue and then did the other quests I 'missed' and looted all the things.  So that is what I suggest, if a rogue is not your preferred party member or you want to do all mages, just come back later. 

[Deebo305]

Considering the new constraints on health I'd definitely on the 1st playthrough but after that, most players are familiar with the system and its cake and lulz after

As for Rouges and lockpicking, its nevee been mandatory or largely needed so your choice really

[BubbleDncr]

I never had a rogue with me my entire first playthrough of DA2, and I don't feel like I missed much in terms of loot - that said, in my current DA:O playthrough, I always bring Lelianna with me cos despite not needing what's in the chests, my OCD twinges a little bit every time I leave a chest unopened. 

 

My biggest gripe about lockpicking is that logically, it makes no sense. My ridiculously strong warriors can't break open a wooden box? Does crushing prison not work on treasure chests? If I was trying to be stealthy about it, then yea, lock picking makes sense. But for the most part, we aren't. 

 

Seems to me like they should be focusing on other reasons for what rogues bring to the party - stealth, detecting traps/hidden passages, massive damage...things that actually make a bit of sense as things mages and warriors can't do. 

[DavoRaydn]

i agree that other classes should have some way to open locked chests. 

 

I don't even care about the content, but you miss out on quite a lot of xp not being able to unlock the chests.

[Mes]

MEEEEEEEEEEEH.

 

Not being able to pick each and every lock as a non-rogue has been frustrating in past games, BUT it's not like any of the chests have historically contained anything of extraordinary value anyway.

 

As for healers? I'm sure that with refined combat tactics, players will be able to go without using healers if they REALLY wanted to. I've always considered healers to be like buffers for bad or inexperienced tactical moves anyway. Like once I've become really comfortable with my tactics, I tend to just use healing potions if I'm really desperate as opposed to healers. And this is coming from someone who very nervously plays anything above "easy".

[Lebanese Dude]

MEEEEEEEEEEEH.

 

Not being able to pick each and every lock as a non-rogue has been frustrating in past games, BUT it's not like any of the chests have historically contained anything of extraordinary value anyway.

 

As for healers? I'm sure that with refined combat tactics, players will be able to go without using healers if they REALLY wanted to. I've always considered healers to be like buffers for bad or inexperienced tactical moves anyway. Like once I've become really comfortable with my tactics, I tend to just use healing potions if I'm really desperate as opposed to healers. And this is coming from someone who very nervously plays anything above "easy".

 

I'm currently roleplaying a Dead-Is-Dead DA:O Nightmare playthrough without Wynne and keeping Morrigan in character by not giving her healing abilities.

I'm loving it

[Gtdef]

Just to clarify, what do you mean by "healers". The only thing that is "mandatory" in both games is the spell "Heal" and that because it allows you to stay on the target and do more damage rather than kiting around. Plus it's good against archers. If you feel that specialized healers are mandatory then you probably do something wrong. Anything without a ranged attack is prone to kiting. 

 

I don't mind lock picking to be rogue only but I'd like to bring classes because they are well designed, not because they have a niche that can't be filled by another. Varric in DA2 was a nice touch. Both well written and one of the stronger characters. Let's see what they will do in DAI.

[JEMEDAOME2]

Personally I always roll with a healer mage anyway I would like  some consumable lockpicks that non rouge classes could use these similar to the ones say in Deus Ex where the complexity of the lock would require more picks  tie effectiveness of these picks into cunning and you have a way all classes could lockpick without always having the need for a rogue in party  I would always run with one locked doors are one thing traps are another

[In Exile]

I suppose it's the difference between Buster Keaton and the Three Stooges. Both physical comedy, one just requires a lot more prep.

 

Yeah, I'm not a fun of prep. I'm like... anti-prep. 

[Deflagratio]

Summarizing this thread:

 

I want what I want because I want it.

 

 

I'm okay with a bashing lock/crate/door option, but there has to be some kind of penalty (That can occasionally be used as a bonus to the clever).

 

Bashing loot containers breaks objects that are flagged as "Fragile." Accessories and potions namely, armor and weapons would survive, with the exception maybe of staves since wood yo.

 

Bashing gates and doors lures everyone within a 6,000KM radius because of the noise. (Which could be used to lure enemies into traps as well)

 

 

 

As for Healing? It was never mandatory, but I define "Mandatory" as what can be accomplished on the easiest difficulty. You can pretty much solo potion-pound the entire Dragon Age: Origins game on casual. Since difficulty is optional, there is no ground to say "Yeah, but what if I don't want a healer and want to play on Nightmare????" What if I want a solid gold toilet seat?

[BlazinAces30]

*rogue
Anyway, OP meant whether rogues' lock-picking ability is important enough to keep one in the party, which translates to whether the loot is good enough to always bring a rogue along. And for mages, whether battles are hard enough, or if the occasional bridge-restoring is rewarding enough.

I didn't know about the devs trying to make lock picking more worthwhile but the only problem I have with it is that lore-wise, locks should be easy to break with magic or a shield bash. Unless of course it is made by the dwarves in which case rogues shouldn't be able to successfully lock pick either.

I don't think you'd need to bring a mage for their healing outside of battle but I'm not sure about in-battle. That depends on the difficulty setting. However, seeing that magic now has more uses outside of battle, I'd think the rewards will be good enough in those instances.

thanks my fault 

that's what I for trying to reply to a forum while working in a call center at the same time

[Elhanan]

lol - Thought the title was lockpickers and haters; illustrates well what these forums have become since the earlier days of NWN1.

[Wintersbreath]

Why be a rogue if you can be a mage? lol Need stealth? Cloaking spell. Noise-canceling spell. Need to stealthily pick a lock? Lock-picking spell. Really, if Finn could de-wrinkle his robes, there should be rogue-replacing spells. Breaks gameplay tho. The inquisition should spend more time gathering more useful spells for the mage!Inquisitor.

[LinksOcarina]

They always are, but shouldn't be. This is a flaw in a lot of games, actually, they tend to optimize there scenarios with the presumption you have both a lockpicker and a healer in the party. It really should be diverse enough to allow you to solve the same problem different ways, be it finding a key hidden near the door to using medical knowledge to heal wounds over magic. Stuff like that would give us more options mechanically, instead of the cookie cutter, DnD-style game people are accustomed to.