104 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

Everythang is evul!!!!

[Schreckstoff]

While I don't agree on cutting it totally out there should be more than a simple investment into the skill tree to become a Templar. There also should be repercussions.

[StrangeStrategy]

no templars are evil and all need to die im gonna enjoy helping mages kill the filthy monsters.

 

I... what... Uh.. lol?

So, you're going to go on a killing spree, killing people like Wesly Vallen who have families and pasts because they're all monsters? You're worse than the cruelest Templar

[Captain Bonecold]

Quoting the wiki proves nothing. The wiki is written by fans and as such can't be taken as gospel. Note that none of the things talking about all Templars being addicted have any source attached to them. However the in game codex CAN be taken as gospel and the codex in the game says SOME Templars become addicted. By definition that means not all of them do. If all the Templars became addicts and suffer the issues shown in your quote the entire Templar order would cease being able to function after a short time. It's not logical to think all Templars are addicted to lyrium is even remotely true at all. It makes no sense.

 

Most of the information and lore says all templars are addicted to lyrium. And the Chantry controls lyrium right? So let put two and two together. Chantry wants addicted templars. That way most knight commanders are addicted. If you don't take lyrium you can't use your temlpar abilities.

 

Oh, big deal if they're addicted. Not like they're ever going to turn to Red Lyrium to get their fix... right?

Seriously though; This is Lyrium, not meth. They remain sane if they take it, and gain abilities to deal with dangerous mages. That is not a bad thing.

Blood Magic doesn't corrupt; it is not inherently evil. Mind controlling people is what makes Blood Magic forbidden, that and the fact you can use someone's life as fuel for spells. Its wrong, and harmful to others. Using Blood Magic to deal with Criminals and fight Darkspawn is fine though.

 

"The effects of lyrium addiction for templars include paranoia, obsession, and dementia.^[9] Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours."

 

 

Do you even know what dementia is?

 

"Dementia is a broad category of brain diseases that cause long term loss of the ability to think and reason clearly that is severe enough to affect a person's daily functioning. For the diagnosis to be present it must be a change from how the person was previously.^[1]

The most common form of dementia is Alzheimer's disease (75%).^[1] Other forms include Lewy body dementia, vascular dementia, frontotemporal dementia, progressive supranuclear palsy, corticobasal degeneration, normal pressure hydrocephalus and Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease.

Except for a few treatable types in most cases there is no cure. Cholinesterase inhibitors are often used early in the disease course; however, benefit appears to be slight.^[2] Cognitive and behavioral interventions may be appropriate. Educating and providing emotional support to the caregiver is of importance. Exercise programs are beneficial with respect to activities of daily living and potentially improving dementia.^[3]

Dementia becomes more common with age. While only 3% of people between the ages of 65–74 have dementia, 47% of people over the age of 85 have some form of dementia.^[1] As more people are living longer, dementia is becoming more common.

In DSM-5 the decision was taken to rename the dementias as neurocognitive disorders, with various degrees of severity."

 

Now that a series thing. And The same data is use in medical books and books explaining dementia. Let see dementia+parnoida+obsession= omfg seriouly mind breaking bad. Meaning this person needs to be lock up and key thrown away or at least the nut house or a nursing home.

[StrangeStrategy]

Most of the information and lore says all templars are addicted to lyrium. And the Chantry controls lyrium right? So let put two and two together. Chantry wants addicted templars. That way most knight commanders are addicted. If you don't take lyrium you can't use your temlpar abilities.

 

 

"The effects of lyrium addiction for templars include paranoia, obsession, and dementia.^[9] Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours."

 

 

Do you even know what dementia is?

 

"Dementia is a broad category of brain diseases that cause long term loss of the ability to think and reason clearly that is severe enough to affect a person's daily functioning. For the diagnosis to be present it must be a change from how the person was previously.^[1]

The most common form of dementia is Alzheimer's disease (75%).^[1] Other forms include Lewy body dementia, vascular dementia, frontotemporal dementia, progressive supranuclear palsy, corticobasal degeneration, normal pressure hydrocephalus and Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease.

Except for a few treatable types in most cases there is no cure. Cholinesterase inhibitors are often used early in the disease course; however, benefit appears to be slight.^[2] Cognitive and behavioral interventions may be appropriate. Educating and providing emotional support to the caregiver is of importance. Exercise programs are beneficial with respect to activities of daily living and potentially improving dementia.^[3]

Dementia becomes more common with age. While only 3% of people between the ages of 65–74 have dementia, 47% of people over the age of 85 have some form of dementia.^[1] As more people are living longer, dementia is becoming more common.

In DSM-5 the decision was taken to rename the dementias as neurocognitive disorders, with various degrees of severity."

 

Now that a series thing. And The same data is use in medical books and books explaining dementia. Let see dementia+parnoida+obsession= omfg seriouly mind breaking bad. Meaning this person needs to be lock up and key thrown away or at least the nut house or a nursing home.

 

Yes yes, a Templar without Lyrium starts to go a bit mad. So what though? When they do start to lose their grips, they basically go to a nice retirement home in Val Royeaux I think.

"Mad" Templars aren't about to summon demons and throw fireballs all over the place. They're more likely to be calmed down and told to go get some rest. So have no fear, they actually do have nursing homes for old Templars

[Leliana-is-dead]

Well at least the mages have never done a terrorist attack killing innocent people that had nothing to...

Oh.

 

Well at least a non controlled mage didn't almost kill everyone in Redcliffe one...

 

Ah

 

Well at least the mage controlled country is a pillar of freedom and equality.. 

 

Wait?

 

Why are we supposed to support mages again?

 

You leave them alone for five minutes and they'll start cutting your dog

[Trikormadenadon]

Most of the information and lore says all templars are addicted to lyrium. And the Chantry controls lyrium right? So let put two and two together. Chantry wants addicted templars. That way most knight commanders are addicted. If you don't take lyrium you can't use your temlpar abilities.

I show you (with a codex example) that the lore says that some, not all,  Templars are addicted to lyrium, and you come back saying (with no codex example) that the lore says all Templars are addicted to lyrium? Sorry, you are starting to sound like a troll to me. I'm done with this topic.

[Vegeta 77]

Templars who protect people and keep mages in line. While blood mages kill people summon demons. Yeah nice try mate. 

[General TSAR]

Actually Templars are far worse. Blood Magic is a tool used in self defence, a type of magic that Templars cannot nullify.

And can spawn demons, control the minds of potentially powerful leaders, and partially responsible for bringing the taint to Thedas. 

[Schreckstoff]

Templars who protect people and keep mages in line. While blood mages kill people summon demons. Yeah nice try mate. 

Many learn blood magic as a weapon against the Templars.

 

The Templars are unecessary as you could easily have Mages govern Mages. There are more mages abiding by the laws set for normal citizens than not, hence Mages could be the ones hunting blood mages and the like.

[General TSAR]

Many learn blood magic as a weapon against the Templars.

Yep like the entire senate of Tevinter........wait.

[Vegeta 77]

Many learn blood magic as a weapon against the Templars.

 

The Templars are unecessary as you could easily have Mages govern Mages. There are more mages abiding by the laws set for normal citizens than not, hence Mages could be the ones hunting blood mages and the like.

You can´t guarente that even good mages keep bad secrets orsino hides the man that kills hawkes mother. Just to make the mages not look bad mages that govern mages will make things easy for them to keep secrets and a easy way to learn blood magic. All it would take is one bad first enchanter if there leaders do it others will to. Templars stop this from happening If there was no templars blood mages like orsino would have kirkwall under his control.

[Schreckstoff]

You can´t guarente that even good mages keep bad secrets orsino hides the man that kills hawkes mother. Just to make the mages not look bad mages that govern mages will make things easy for them to keep secrets and a easy way to learn blood magic. All it would take is one bad first enchanter if there leaders do it others will to. Templars stop this from happening If there was no templars blood mages like orsino would have kirkwall under his control.

What is the difference to Templars then, one bad leader can do just as much, one bad king can be just as devastating, etc. 

 

If Mages are educated like normal citizens instead of being ripped from their families, even their very name and heritage they'd behave like normal citizens. Also govern doesn't mean w/o regulatory body. 

[Silfren]

 I bloody hope not, he actually says it too the players face.

 

Can I have a source?

 

Sorry, but this has been long since settled.  Gaider has been clear on the issue.  That scene in Origins has been explained to be a mistake that was overlooked.  No, I don't have a source to give you, but the fact remains that Gaider has specifically stated that lyrium is necessary, and even if he had not, the point has been WELL made in lore from the games and the books; so Alistair's lines of necessity have to be disregarded.

[TurretSyndrome]

I think they can use the "dragon-blood" power Alistair has to correct what he said in the first game though. At that time, he didn't know he's got dragon blood in him so it's fair for Alistair to be mistaken to assume that Templar skills didn't need Lyrium. It's not like there were any cultists who also practiced Templar skills, so I see no problem in Alistair being the first Reaver-Templar(unless you count the Warden of course).

[Trikormadenadon]

I think they can use the "dragon-blood" power Alistair has to correct what he said in the first game though. At that time, he didn't know he's got dragon blood in him so it's fair for Alistair to be mistaken to assume that Templar skills didn't need Lyrium. It's not like there were any cultists who also practiced Templar skills, so I see no problem in Alistair being the first Reaver-Templar(unless you count the Warden of course).

However the codex says they need it to enhance their abilities. It also says they need it to develop their abilities. But nowhere does it say they need to keep using it in order to use their abilities. It's not just Alistair's conversation pointing to this conclusion.

[KainD]

However the codex says they need it to enhance their abilities. It also says they need it to develop their abilities. But nowhere does it say they need to keep using it in order to use their abilities. It's not just Alistair's conversation pointing to this conclusion.

 

Look, David Gaider came to the forums and said: ''Templars need lyrium for their abilities.'' What else do you need? 

[Trikormadenadon]

Look, David Gaider came to the forums and said: ''Templars need lyrium for their abilities.'' What else do you need? 

If that's true, then link it. If you can't or won't link it then don't state it because it is just rumor until you do.

 

Also, even if what you say is true, until it is actually stated in the game that Templars need lyrium then it remains a falsehood. Codex trumps forum banter every time. Even if that forum banter is coming directly from the lead writer. BioWare writers have said many many things in the forum that turned out to be false when the game came out, so DG saying Templars need lyrium in the forums without putting it into the game means nothing.

[KainD]

Also, even if what you say is true, until it is actually stated in the game that Templars need lyrium then it remains a falsehood. Codex trumps forum banter every time. Even if that forum banter is coming directly from the lead writer. BioWare writers have said many many things in the forum that turned out to be false when the game came out, so DG saying Templars need lyrium in the forums without putting it into the game means nothing.

 

Not even going to search for the quote with that premise you have here. 

 

I just wonder how it makes any sense to you that non-mages can have magical abilities without using magic components. Because templar abilities are straight up anti-magic school from the mage tree in Origins, + a bit of mana alteration.  

[Leliana-is-dead]

Not even going to search for the quote with that premise you have here. 

 

I just wonder how it makes any sense to you that non-mages can have magical abilities without using magic components. Because templar abilities are straight up anti-magic school from the mage tree in Origins, + a bit of mana alteration.  

Perhaps he thinks that Bioware are a better company then to blatantly retcon information that was said to the player by one of the most important characters in the game.

 

Not sure why though

[KainD]

Perhaps he thinks that Bioware are a better company then to blatantly retcon information that was said to the player by one of the most important characters in the game.

 

Not sure why though

 

Well they screwed up, what else are they supposed to do? Mundanes aren't supposed to have magical abilities without lyrium, otherwise there is no difference between mundanes and mages. 

[Trikormadenadon]

Not even going to search for the quote with that premise you have here. 

 

I just wonder how it makes any sense to you that non-mages can have magical abilities without using magic components. Because templar abilities are straight up anti-magic school from the mage tree in Origins, + a bit of mana alteration.  

The codex says they need lyrium to develop the skills, also to enhance the skills. It does not say they need to keep taking it in order to use the skills once they are developed however. It's a fundamentally important distinction.

[Leliana-is-dead]

Well they screwed up, what else are they supposed to do? Mundanes aren't supposed to have magical abilities without lyrium, otherwise there is no difference between mundanes and mages. 

Mundanes can be possessed by demons, mundanes can become reavers, hell, grey wardens can use a form of blood magic.

 

Ain't that much difference

[Trikormadenadon]

Perhaps he thinks that Bioware are a better company then to blatantly retcon information that was said to the player by one of the most important characters in the game.

 

Not sure why though

Yes and no. I know BioWare has retconned things in the past and so be it. But until it is actually in the game and the retcon is done...there is no reason to believe it is true.

[KainD]

The codex says they need lyrium to develop the skills, also to enhance the skills. It does not say they need to keep taking it in order to use the skills once they are developed however. It's a fundamentally important distinction.

 

Lyrium is mana, nothing less nothing more. Mana is used to cast the spells, no mana no spells. Mundanes don't produce natural mana like mages do, so after they use their abilities enough time they need lyrium again, or else they won't have any fuel to cast their abilities.