1180 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

It's interesting how Jack, despite being a team member strictly in a DLC, still doesn't measure up to Liara in gameplay.

[themikefest]

Since people are complaining that Liara is useless, the content that was moved from her to Traynor should have stayed with Liara.

Problem solved!

Incorrect. Liara knows nothing about communications. She would've looked  more of an idiot had that content stayed with her.

[DuskWanderer]

I find it funny when most people who say people need to learn how to play Liara themselves have no idea how to play with the others. Considering Liara is useless against the majority of dangerous enemies (and the ones she is useful against  are themselves the least dangerous), it's less a l2p and more of a "stop knocking my waifu"

[wolfhowwl]

Using Liara as an ability dispenser for spamming biotic combos works just fine.

It's not like Mass Effect 3 is particularly challenging on any difficult level anyways.

[KaiserShep]

Incorrect. Liara knows nothing about communications. She would've looked  more of an idiot had that content stayed with her.

I'm not sure I follow. If Liara was the sole quest bringer that did all of Traynor's functions aboard the ship, how would she look like an idiot if the effect is essentially the same? It's obvious that it would only bolster the complaints among those that dislike the character that she's force-fed to the player, but being useless or idiotic would not really be an apt description.

 

I guess it doesn't matter. In the end, it would just turn into "It shoulda been EDI doing everything".

[AlanC9]

Not significantly better than most of the others, and Jacob can successfully lead fire teams.

Doesn't that just mean that they're good at different things? If I want a fireteam leader, that's Jacob. If I want someone to help Shepard kill a bunch of Collectors, that's Thane. Jacob suffers because we need the latter more often than we need the former.

[dreamgazer]

Doesn't that just mean that they're good at different things? If I want a fireteam leader, that's Jacob. If I want someone to help Shepard kill a bunch of Collectors, that's Thane. Jacob suffers because we need the latter more often than we need the former.

To an extent, but every single member of the Dirty Dozen can kill Collectors. You run into redundancy issues with that many squadmates, and Thane's at or near the bottom of the totem pole because of his lack of specialization.

[Oni Changas]

To an extent, but every single member of the Dirty Dozen can kill Collectors. You run into redundancy issues with that many squadmates, and Thane's at or near the bottom of the totem pole because of his lack of specialization.

Thane is the BMF in the galaxy. His specialization is stopping heartbeats and snapping necks. Lack of specialization... man.

[dreamgazer]

Thane is the BMF in the galaxy. His specialization is stopping heartbeats and snapping necks. Lack of specialization... man.

Hey, I'm going by what the SM demands and yields. Under those parameters, he's superfluous.

[KaiserShep]

To an extent, but every single member of the Dirty Dozen can kill Collectors. You run into redundancy issues with that many squadmates, and Thane's at or near the bottom of the totem pole because of his lack of specialization.

 

Yeah, overlap didn't really do the squad any favors. I typically used Garrus and Zaeed more than Thane, both of whom I found to be more useful, and since I played a Vanguard, there was nothing Jacob could do that Jack couldn't do better. I really like Grunt, but he didn't really see much action for me either for the same reason. Miranda was probably one of the best all-rounders for me. I honestly cannot remember what it's like to have Samara in combat, because more often than not she never left the lounge except to kill Morinth. Of course, if we're going by Suicide Mission parameters, she gets a pass since she's the only other squad member that can successfully hold the biotic field.

[themikefest]

I'm not sure I follow. If Liara was the sole quest bringer that did all of Traynor's functions aboard the ship, how would she look like an idiot if the effect is essentially the same? It's obvious that it would only bolster the complaints among those that dislike the character that she's force-fed to the player, but being useless or idiotic would not really be an apt description.

 

I guess it doesn't matter. In the end, it would just turn into "It shoulda been EDI doing everything".

Liara doesn't know how to decrypt the comms that Traynor was able to do for the Grissom mission.  The same with the ex-Cerberus scientists. Traynor was trained for that. And Traynor was the only one able to track Kai Leng. The robot clearly mentions that. So the robot wouldn't of been able to do everything otherwise it wouldn't credit Traynor for tracking Leng.

[KaiserShep]

The point is that if Traynor didn't exist, Liara would simply have been written to do all of these things in conjunction with EDI and the effect would pretty much be the same. That she's trained to do this isn't the point, because without her, someone else would be, because of reasons. Of course, Liara isn't trained by the military, but who knows what she did or learned dicking about in Illium and on Hagalaz for the short period of time before Cerberus "found" her. There's nothing that outright precludes Liara's ability to decrypt things, but then if teamed up with EDI, who knows. Traynor has to be useful, otherwise she's just there to be another friend or love interest for Shepard, and would basically be Kelly 2: British Bugaloo.

[themikefest]

The point is that if Traynor didn't exist, Liara would simply have been written to do all of these things in conjunction with EDI and the effect would pretty much be the same. That she's trained to do this isn't the point, because without her, someone else would be, because of reasons.

And if T'soni was sent to Hackett or her role ended after Mars, Traynor would do all those things and the robot would continue doing whatever its doing because of reasons.

[KaiserShep]

And this is kind of why I don't really take any of this stuff about who's useful and who isn't on the Normandy very seriously. Basically, they all seemed to have a bit more purpose here (as much as people want to insist that Liara is totally useless, her as well), at least more than some of the characters I picked up on the Cerberus grocery list in the previous title.

[themikefest]

I agree that a few in ME2 are useless and not necessary.

[Farangbaa]

Hey, I'm going by what the SM demands and yields. Under those parameters, he's superfluous.

 

 

High weapon damage on class skill, insanely high damage on loyalty skill against organics (--> Collectors, Husks, Scions), the ability to detonate biotic explosions via Warp and a low cooldown way to instakill unprotected Husks with Throw.

 

So, again:

 

 

Liara doesn't know how to decrypt the comms that Traynor was able to do for the Grissom mission.  The same with the ex-Cerberus scientists. Traynor was trained for that. And Traynor was the only one able to track Kai Leng. The robot clearly mentions that. So the robot wouldn't of been able to do everything otherwise it wouldn't credit Traynor for tracking Leng.

 

She's the *bleep* Shadow Broker.

Come on.

[o Ventus]

The short answer is: she is favored by the writers.

This. She overshadows practically everybody else in terms of status, other than Shepard.

[Mordokai]

She's the *bleep* Shadow Broker.

Come on.

 

You really expect that will make Mike change his opinion? I mean, I remember there being something about developers taking content away from Liara and giving it to Traynor, which I can totally believe, since, as Kaiser mentioned, Traynor is otherwise just Kelly number two(just, you know... more annoying), but I bet even if one of developers came out and said as much, the guy would still stick to his opinions like an adhesive.

[Farangbaa]

You really expect that will make Mike change his opinion? I mean, I remember there being something about developers taking content away from Liara and giving it to Traynor, which I can totally believe, since, as Kaiser mentioned, Traynor is otherwise just Kelly number two(just, you know... more annoying), but I bet even if one of developers came out and said as much, the guy would still stick to his opinions like an adhesive.

 

I expect nothing and everything on the internet.

 

It's an attitude that has served me well

[KaiserShep]

You really expect that will make Mike change his opinion? I mean, I remember there being something about developers taking content away from Liara and giving it to Traynor, which I can totally believe, since, as Kaiser mentioned, Traynor is otherwise just Kelly number two(just, you know... more annoying), but I bet even if one of developers came out and said as much, the guy would still stick to his opinions like an adhesive.

If the game had tons more side missions, it would be much easier, since Liara could be more of a quest bringing for a great many more while Traynor would still be able to properly play her role on the ship. In the end though, it doesn't really matter. First and foremost, these characters are there to flesh out the Normandy's cast of companions and have more people for the PC to talk to. We don't need a new soldier character to maintain our armory and we don't need to put a face on the person who flies the shuttle. Honestly I never put much thought into any of this before coming to BSN, because I like both of the characters, and they seemed to serve some kind of purpose even in doing their own thing on the ship, and one is a fellow combatant, while the other, lest we forget, was not officially assigned to the ship in the first place, much like a lot of the other members of the crew.

[DuskWanderer]

Liara's a pretty useless Shadow Broker. All we see her do is talk to Glyph about things that didn't affect the missions a whole lot. There's no reason why the Lessus mission couldn't have come from the asari councilor, considering Liara never had any interaction with Morinth. You could say she did things off screen, but so did a lot of folks, and they didn't have the resources she did.

 

 

Traynor did a very good job decrypting and other things. I replayed the dialogue and I don't think EDI said Traynor was the only one who could do it, just that she did do it (and did it well, they wouldn't have caught her if she didn't). Either way, Traynor did a good job and analyzed intel. Liara just sat around and was a waifu I had to love.

[themikefest]

 

She's the *bleep* Shadow Broker.

Come on.

That means what exactly? Because she is doesn't automatically mean she knows anything about communications

 

Where are we going?

You really expect that will make Mike change his opinion? I mean, I remember there being something about developers taking content away from Liara and giving it to Traynor, which I can totally believe, since, as Kaiser mentioned, Traynor is otherwise just Kelly number two(just, you know... more annoying), but I bet even if one of developers came out and said as much, the guy would still stick to his opinions like an adhesive.

Give me one good reason why I would chnage my opinion?

 

Having Liara know anything about communications isn't supported by her background, nor being the shadow broker doesn't automactically gain you knowledge of comms like Traynor has who's been doing that for years. At least Traynor didn't take armor from a dead body and display it in her apartment like its some kind of trophy.

[DuskWanderer]

Liara taking armor from a dead body doesn't make her good or bad at comms, it just makes her obsessed to the point where there's good reason to believe the reason Ashley/Kaidan distrusts Shepard in the third game is because Liara deliberately fed them bad intel so she could have Shepard all to herself. After all, she did it with Tali, if you romance Liara, and dump her for Tali.

[themikefest]

Liara taking armor from a dead body doesn't make her good or bad at comms, it just makes her obsessed to the point where there's good reason to believe the reason Ashley/Kaidan distrusts Shepard in the third game is because Liara deliberately fed them bad intel so she could have Shepard all to herself. After all, she did it with Tali, if you romance Liara, and dump her for Tali.

True it doesn't make her good at comms, but it makes me not trust or be around her because of it. Why would I trust someone who would do that?  Shepard would always wonder what more she has that we may not know about and if whatever she says is truthful.

[Mordokai]

At least Traynor didn't take armor from a dead body and display it in her apartment like its some kind of trophy.