So what you're saying it would have been better to raise someone's hope about a project that probably wasn't even sure to work?
It would save their life for starters to tell my mother.
All Liara had to say is she gave the body to Cerberus that said its possible to bring her son/daughter back to life and that its not guaranteed it would work. And if the project fails its possible she may never know what became of her son/daughter.
Whether or not Liara has the right doesn't really matter. It's still in her hands, and entirely at her discretion. In this position, it would not be a consideration at all, because whether or not I have the right to keep it to myself has no effect whatsoever on what it may do to the person that I'd be informing of this. Basically, I'd likely freak this person out for the sole purpose of making myself feel better, which doesn't sound like a very good plan to me.
As for violent encounters, the lack of any obligation to relay any information in person kind of makes that a moot point. Why bother flying possibly lightyears to speak to someone, when you can send a message? For courtesy? Not likely.
It would save their life for starters to tell my mother.
All Liara had to say is she gave the body to Cerberus that said its possible to bring her son/daughter back to life and that its not guaranteed it would work. And if the project fails its possible she may never know what became of her son/daughter.
How would that make it better? just by associating with Cerberus the council said it was and act of treason and you wanted her to casually tell an alliance admiral that she gave her son/daughter to the enemies O.o?
For you maybe.
I asked my mother what she would do. She told me she would ask why she wasn't told and then use the shotgun that I bought her last year to kill that person
This is the question I asked her.
If someone I was close to or in a relationship with and that individual gave my body to a group that might be able to bring me back to life without telling you, what would you do?
Well, that'd be awkward, as Liara would have to kill my own mother... and I wouldn't blame her for it.
Well, that'd be awkward, as Liara would have to kill my own mother... and I wouldn't blame her for it.
Why not? If Liara is putting herself in such a precarious position and is risking the temporary insanity of a grieving mother, then it's kind of her fault.
Why not? If Liara is putting herself in such a precarious position and is risking the temporary insanity of a grieving mother, then it's kind of her fault.
Well, I wouldn't think "We just resurrected your daughter" would be a worse message than "we have your daughter's corpse which we may or may not be able to resurrect," but I never claimed to get themikefest or his family.
How would that make it better? just by associating with Cerberus the council said it was and act of treason and you wanted her to casually tell an alliance admiral that she gave her son/daughter to the enemies O.o?
Why can't she ask to see her in private to talk about her child?
Well, I wouldn't think "We just resurrected your daughter" would be a worse message than "we have your daughter's corpse which we may or may not be able to resurrect," but I never claimed to get themikefest or his family.
And what do I have to do with this post that you had to mention me or my family?
And what do I have to do with this post that you had to mention me or my family?
Didn't this whole thing start because you said your mom would kill anyone who told her that her kid had been resurrected after the fact, instead of telling her about the potential of resurrection beforehand?
Didn't this whole thing start because you said your mom would kill anyone who told her that her kid had been resurrected after the fact, instead of telling her about the potential of resurrection beforehand?
What does that have to do with the post you made by mentioning my family?
What does that have to do with the post you made by mentioning my family?
Because that post was me saying that I don't understand your mother.
So, this thread is pretty typical.
"Why do so many people hate <insert popular/polarized character<?
People give reasons why they dislike popular/polarized character. Lynch mob shows up to beat them with the dead horse of "This character is perfect and if you don't feel the way I do, you're wrong!"
If someone thinks Liara is creepy, weird, favored, ugly, strange, inept at being the Shadow Broker, etc. You aren't going to change their opinions by brow-beating them with a biased, fan-geared opinion of your own. And vice versa. After all, one person's creep is another person's waifu.
Because that post was me saying that I don't understand your mother.
Whether you understand her or not, which you never will, doesn't mean you can bring up my family.
Didn't this whole thing start because you said your mom would kill anyone who told her that her kid had been resurrected after the fact, instead of telling her about the potential of resurrection beforehand?
My mom would never kill anyone, but I am pretty sure some hair would be snatched and some eyeballs would be scratched. Perhaps. I don't really know. I do know that they would have gotten a thorough tongue lashing if they did this without consulting her first and foremost. It would have definitely been a "Oh, no you didn't" moment.
Whether you understand her or not, which you never will, doesn't mean you can bring up my family.
If you considered it a personal attack, such was not my intent, and I'd like to know why so I can avoid doing so in the future.
My mom would never kill anyone, but I am pretty sure some hair would be snatched and some eyeballs would be scratched. Perhaps. I don't really know. I do know that they would have gotten a thorough tongue lashing if they did this without consulting her first and foremost. It would have definitely been a "Oh, no you didn't" moment.
Personally, I'd be kind of annoyed if my mom got angry because I'd been resurrected.
If you considered it a personal attack, such was not my intent, and I'd like to know why so I can avoid doing so in the future.
You can start by not mentioning my family in any posts.
You can start by not mentioning my family in any posts.
That might be difficult when you yourself bring them up as a discussion topic.
That might be difficult when you yourself bring them up as a discussion topic.
How is that difficult? I mention them only once. That doesn't mean you can mention them in your posts.
How is that difficult? I mention them only once. That doesn't mean you can mention them in your posts.
So, I'm not allowed to respond to said posts?
So, I'm not allowed to respond to said posts?
Since you did already, there is no need to mention them again, right?
Personally, I'd be kind of annoyed if my mom got angry because I'd been resurrected.
Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? I mean, speaking hypothetically, which I hope we are, considering Liara and Shepard aren't real and their course was set out by writers and not reality. We know that Shepard turns out okie dokey. However, wouldn't this have been nice?
"Oh, Hi, Mrs. Shepard. See, I know your kid was declared dead--but guess what! Yeah, he wasn't. You know that Shadow Broker guy? Seems he was a big silly and wanted your kid for some nefarious plan. Fear not! I gave him to Cerberus. Now, I know Cerberus has a horrible reputation for doing all kinds of unethical things like torture and human experimentation. I thought, 'Hey! They can rebuild him! They have the technology!' Except, since he was Shep, they implanted a control chip and now he is killing for them. And stealing Alliance secrets and basically being their puppet. Yeah, nothing I could do about it since as soon as I handed him over, it was out of my hands. I just trusted them when they said they would do nice things with him. I mean, they said Scout's honor! And I couldn't live without him!"
I mean, honestly. You don't see why some people may think she took too much liberty? That a parent wouldn't want to know--or have the option to decide, "Hmmm, do I want my child to be a guinea pig for a known terrorist organization that may or may not bring him back to life, or shall I let him rest in peace?" No, let's leave those decisions to someone who has known him for only a couple of years or less. I mean, after all--she can't let him go! I can understand that if your Shepard loved Liara, you'd be okay with her making that sort of decision about his/her life. Surely, you can understand that if someone did not love Liara, it would come off as ..... bizarre and a complete step out of bounds.
Number one: so she admits to being jealous? Heaven forbid, we have a character with a weakness"
Number two: I'm saying neither of VS would leave Shepard's corpse in Cerberus's possession. Which once again leads to Lazarus failure, which is, you know... kinda bad for survival of every sapient being.
Number three: wrong on both counts.
Then prove me wrong. Please.
Nothing wrong with a weakness. Nothing at all. All I'm proposing is that Liara acted upon it, and thus, we can view her through such a lens.
The thing with the VS leaving the corpse with Cerberus is quite the same as Hannah Shepard. A blind supposition.
Funny: You've yet to prove I am wrong. Liara is forced upon us for reasons already described, among them being forced to hug her on Illium and her being your final thought during the Pre-Extended Cut just two of the most jarring examples. Another being "offended" when Wreav insults the asari on Sur'Kesh. The second, Liara is a crappy broker, has already been brought up: i.e. she's done nothing other than find the Crucible.
You want me to prove you're making an assumption? You are making one. The logic is poor because you're assuming the VS, Hannah Shepard, or anyone else has the ability to do the things you've described, or that they wouldn't let Shepard get "resurrected" and take them back once the job was done. Your logic is twisted, incoherent, and doesn't make even the slightest sense.
Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? I mean, speaking hypothetically, which I hope we are, considering Liara and Shepard aren't real and their course was set out by writers and not reality. We know that Shepard turns out okie dokey. However, wouldn't this have been nice?
"Oh, Hi, Mrs. Shepard. See, I know your kid was declared dead--but guess what! Yeah, he wasn't. You know that Shadow Broker guy? Seems he was a big silly and wanted your kid for some nefarious plan. Fear not! I gave him to Cerberus. Now, I know Cerberus has a horrible reputation for doing all kinds of unethical things like torture and human experimentation. I thought, 'Hey! They can rebuild him! They have the technology!' Except, since he was Shep, they implanted a control chip and now he is killing for them. And stealing Alliance secrets and basically being their puppet. Yeah, nothing I could do about it since as soon as I handed him over, it was out of my hands. I just trusted them when they said they would do nice things with him. I mean, they said Scout's honor! And I couldn't live without him!"
I mean, honestly. You don't see why some people may think she took too much liberty? That a parent wouldn't want to know--or have the option to decide, "Hmmm, do I want my child to be a guinea pig for a known terrorist organization that may or may not bring him back to life, or shall I let him rest in peace?" No, let's leave those decisions to someone who has known him for only a couple of years or less. I mean, after all--she can't let him go! I can understand that if your Shepard loved Liara, you'd be okay with her making that sort of decision about his/her life. Surely, you can understand that if someone did not love Liara, it would come off as ..... bizarre and a complete step out of bounds.
I frankly don't see why that would be my parent's decision; after all, I'm not under her legal authority. And having an Alliance admiral be involved with the process at all would get too messy, with too much chance of information leaking.
Of course, my Shepard does not have to worry about any of this, because both of her parents were horribly murdered.
I frankly don't see why that would be my parent's decision; after all, I'm not under her legal authority. And having an Alliance admiral be involved with the process at all would get too messy, with too much chance of information leaking.
Of course, my Shepard does not have to worry about any of this, because both of her parents were horribly murdered.
Whether or not you're under legal authority, a parent is the next of kin if the person is unmarried. Legally, unless specified in a living will or DNR, the next of kin has medical rights. Which, doesn't apply in fiction, but nonetheless.
I think it's pretty telling that you cannot even for one moment, see any other side to the argument than your own. Which is why I think you're a little biased on the situation. As I said, I can certainly understand if Liara is your significant other, but it's a bit "broken window" not to acknowledge that for someone who really didn't give a flip about Liara, would be perfectly fine with having her decide anything of that priority.
I can't speak for my own parents and I certainly wouldn't speak for anyone else's, but I don't think you'd find too many who would disagree that if there was a major medical decision to be made that would affect their child's entire life--adult or otherwise--and a casual friend stepped in and not only over-ruled them, but didn't even consult them before making the decision for them....it would be some bloodshed going on. It would be completely unacceptable. After seeing Dr. Frankenstein's portfolio, I wouldn't take my dead kid to him and be like, "Hey, I know that last one didn't work out so well, give this one a shot!" So, I absolutely wouldn't want someone else to do it.
I understand if it's a lover. I mean, you discussed the future, you're invested in their lives. Their future is your future, so on and so on. But a friend? A casual friend? I mean, I love my co-worker. I would do anything for him. Maybe even donate an organ to save him. If he died, wouldn't drive him over to Pet Cemetery and think, "Well, don't know if he is coming out good or bad, but let's chuck him in anyway! Least he'll be alive!"
Whether or not you're under legal authority, a parent is the next of kin if the person is unmarried. Legally, unless specified in a living will or DNR, the next of kin has medical rights. Which, doesn't apply in fiction, but nonetheless.
I think it's pretty telling that you cannot even for one moment, see any other side to the argument than your own. Which is why I think you're a little biased on the situation. As I said, I can certainly understand if Liara is your significant other, but it's a bit "broken window" not to acknowledge that for someone who really didn't give a flip about Liara, would be perfectly fine with having her decide anything of that priority.
I can't speak for my own parents and I certainly wouldn't speak for anyone else's, but I don't think you'd find too many who would disagree that if there was a major medical decision to be made that would affect their child's entire life--adult or otherwise--and a casual friend stepped in and not only over-ruled them, but didn't even consult them before making the decision for them....it would be some bloodshed going on. It would be completely unacceptable. After seeing Dr. Frankenstein's portfolio, I wouldn't take my dead kid to him and be like, "Hey, I know that last one didn't work out so well, give this one a shot!" So, I absolutely wouldn't want someone else to do it.
I understand if it's a lover. I mean, you discussed the future, you're invested in their lives. Their future is your future, so on and so on. But a friend? A casual friend? I mean, I love my co-worker. I would do anything for him. Maybe even donate an organ to save him. If he died, wouldn't drive him over to Pet Cemetery and think, "Well, don't know if he is coming out good or bad, but let's chuck him in anyway! Least he'll be alive!"
I don't think it's because I'm biased towards Liara, at least not completely because of that. It's in part because I find it mildly incomprehensible that anyone would ever resent being alive after having died horribly in a non-suicide, but it's especially so for Shepard, who has a galaxy-shakingly important task to be getting on with that no one else except Cerberus--and Liara--are helping with. To me, it seems to be saying "I'd rather be dead and thus vastly increasing the risk that the Reapers will kill everyone, than have been retrieved from the Collectors by my squadmate and then brought back to life," and I just don't get that.
I don't think it's because I'm biased towards Liara, at least not completely because of that. It's in part because I find it mildly incomprehensible that anyone would ever resent being alive after having died horribly in a non-suicide, but it's especially so for Shepard, who has a galaxy-shakingly important task to be getting on with that no one else except Cerberus--and Liara--are helping with. To me, it seems to be saying "I'd rather be dead and thus vastly increasing the risk that the Reapers will kill everyone, than have been retrieved from the Collectors by my squadmate and then brought back to life," and I just don't get that.
Everything worked out for the best, but at the time of Liara doing this, it may not have. Miranda herself stated she wanted to put a control chip in him. What if TIM would have agreed? Would he have been so pleased to have been alive then? A Cerberus puppet? A Cerberus puppet that could possibly end up having to kill his comrades? Maybe even his mother. I suppose she would have still been happy just to see her son once more. Things worked out good in the end. Good on Liara. How wonderful she took that chance. Big chance to take for such a casual friend.
I don't think people are saying they resentShepard being alive or even that they resent Liara doing what she did. I think most are saying they resent that the writers made the decision fall into Liara's hands. Considering not everyone romanced her or even considered her to be a bff. I think they are saying that if someone wasn't so intent on giving Liara her very own story, they could have written a better choice for such a major decision in the game.
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