How popular would she of been had all characters were available at the beginning of the game? Or how popular would she be had she only been available for half the game like Tali and Ashley/Kaidan? How popular would she be had she been romanceable by only one gender and not both?
Woulda coulda shoulda
Pointless.
Samara was also saving things from her daughters, keep in mind. And again, not enough information to condemn.
And the point isn't that TIM wouldn't, but that Liara should.
Thessia + Mars + Menae = 3. Again, compare that to everyone else you get at that time (James at 2, EDI and Garrus at 1)
I notice you don't address the points about how developers say characters are fan favorites when they aren't. Of course you wouldn't, it invalidates all of your points. Am I to gather you don't have a response?
Because I don't know most of the characters you mentioned? But you're obviously trying to compare movies/series/books with video games, which is stupid. It is far easier to collect the relevant data in a video game. All you did is claiming that the developers don't know what they're talking about, or how to analyze their data. There are several interviews with developers, official posts in this forum, the Bioware infographic, polls, surveys and reviews, and they all prove you wrong. You simply don't have a point.
And Liara is only mandatory for 5 minutes on menae, just like she is missing at the beginning on mars. 2 missions.
Woulda coulda shoulda
Pointless.
If the argument being put forward is that "Liara is popular because she's used a lot in comparison to other characters", it is relevant that she is forced to be used and the ability to choose her rather than someone else (since they are not available) matters.
Well, there's not a whole lot about any alien culture. The point is that we don't have enough information to condemn anyone. As for Miranda... it's not impossible, but it removes an interesting plot element and leaves Liara with relatively little to do in the two-year interim, which I don't think is that characteristic; she's the only other one who's seen Shepard's visions and would seem to be the one who'd be most committed to stopping the Reaper threat, in a way.
If she is so committed to stopping the reapers, why didn't she go to Eden Prime to see if more could be uncovered? Or why didn't she go to Mars? Or go back to Ilos ansd study the ruins? If you have her on the mission on Ilos, she talked about wanting to study what was seen. I would've thought she would go back there to study the ruins. But instead she decided to become an information broker. I would say that she wasn't committed to stopping the reapers.
You asked this like five times already.
Also, Liara was the least available squadmate in ME1, and didn't show up on the squad at all in ME2.
And you don't have an answer.
Samara's daughters are also Samara's daughters. They're her immediate family. It makes sense for her to have mementos of them; she's their mother.
Liara, being dependent on the player's input, can range anywhere from a near-stranger to mild acquaintance to Shepard's romantic interest. Keeping a memento of Shepard makes sense for the latter, but not the former two. Especially not the same armor that Shepard died in.
I don't think I get why the last part is a problem. As for the rest... eh, I just don't see it as a big issue. If you think that Liara's dialogue is too romance-ish in ME3, that's more of a concern, but I wouldn't entirely know (I actually don't think that the romance was acknowledged enough, at least in my playthrough).
If she is so committed to stopping the reapers, why didn't she go to Eden Prime to see if more could be uncovered? Or why didn't she go to Mars? Or go back to Ilos ansd study the ruins? If you have her on the mission on Ilos, she talked about wanting to study what was seen. I would've thought she would go back there to study the ruins. But instead she decided to become an information broker. I would say that she wasn't committed to stopping the reapers.
She's not part of an Alliance excavation team, so would probably not be able to get anywhere on the former two, and Ilos was investigated; the Council mentions it.
Because I don't know most of the characters you mentioned? But you're obviously trying to compare movies/series/books with video games, which is stupid. It is far easier to collect the relevant data in a video game. All you did is claiming that the developers don't know what they're talking about, or how to analyze their data. There are several interviews with developers, official posts in this forum, the Bioware infographic, polls, surveys and reviews, and they all prove you wrong. You simply don't have a point.
And Liara is only mandatory for 5 minutes on menae, just like she is missing at the beginning on mars. 2 missions.
You are clearly grasping at straws. You don't think there are message boards for TV Shows? For books? You don't think it's easy to collect data? There are political groups, private groups, and all of that who make money doing that. It is quite simple.
I don't think you even bothered to read, truly. The point I addressed is that "Just because the developers say Liara is a fan favorite doesn't mean she is. Characters like Lana Lang from Smallville were said to be fan favorites and they are not." Your response is: "Interviews with developers say Liara is a fan favorite." Except, no, the point was that developers saying it doesn't make it true.
The infographic has been addressed, not to mention it only counts who goes on the missions. Whether or not the character is a fan-favorite is beside the point. Also, as mentioned, it's weighted in Liara's favor, which you ignore. And again, it counts who goes on the missions, so Liara gets counted three times. Even if she's only there for half the mission, it counts as she goes on it. That's all it does. Consider how Garrus is within 2 points of Liara, and can only go on one mission (and might even be dead and therefore unselectable)
Quite simply, you're throwing out useless points that don't answer the points made. At this point, you're just Liara trolling. Until you're willing to address that just because a developer says something doesn't make it true, you've got no case.
You are clearly grasping at straws. You don't think there are message boards for TV Shows? For books? You don't think it's easy to collect data? There are political groups, private groups, and all of that who make money doing that. It is quite simple.
I don't think you even bothered to read, truly. The point I addressed is that "Just because the developers say Liara is a fan favorite doesn't mean she is. Characters like Lana Lang from Smallville were said to be fan favorites and they are not." Your response is: "Interviews with developers say Liara is a fan favorite." Except, no, the point was that developers saying it doesn't make it true.
The infographic has been addressed, not to mention it only counts who goes on the missions. Whether or not the character is a fan-favorite is beside the point. Also, as mentioned, it's weighted in Liara's favor, which you ignore. And again, it counts who goes on the missions, so Liara gets counted three times. Even if she's only there for half the mission, it counts as she goes on it. That's all it does. Consider how Garrus is within 2 points of Liara, and can only go on one mission (and might even be dead and therefore unselectable)
Quite simply, you're throwing out useless points that don't answer the points made. At this point, you're just Liara trolling. Until you're willing to address that just because a developer says something doesn't make it true, you've got no case.
Okay, so for this infographic to be useful, you'd need to somehow statistically determine how much the first two missions will skew the results. Which is all well and good if you can do that. But do you have any data that would somehow counter any developer statements on this matter?
Woulda coulda shoulda
Pointless.
Why is it pointless? I would like to see a poll done had she been a romance for one gender and only available for half the game
She's not part of an Alliance excavation team, so would probably not be able to get anywhere on the former two, and Ilos was investigated; the Council mentions it.
What she's not smart enough to ask Hackett(since they appear to be friends) to study those areas? Or maybe ask Anderson? What did the council investigate? Wouldn't T'soni go with them to help out? All she did was become an information broker and wasn't committed to stopping the reapers.
Livi14 wrote...
Because I don't know most of the characters you mentioned? But you're obviously trying to compare movies/series/books with video games, which is stupid. It is far easier to collect the relevant data in a video game. All you did is claiming that the developers don't know what they're talking about, or how to analyze their data. There are several interviews with developers, official posts in this forum, the Bioware infographic, polls, surveys and reviews, and they all prove you wrong. You simply don't have a point.
And Liara is only mandatory for 5 minutes on menae, just like she is missing at the beginning on mars. 2 missions.
I don't think I get why the last part is a problem. As for the rest... eh, I just don't see it as a big issue. If you think that Liara's dialogue is too romance-ish in ME3, that's more of a concern, but I wouldn't entirely know (I actually don't think that the romance was acknowledged enough, at least in my playthrough).
Okay, so for this infographic to be useful, you'd need to somehow statistically determine how much the first two missions will skew the results. Which is all well and good if you can do that. But do you have any data that would somehow counter any developer statements on this matter?
The developers don't have any statements on the infographic. The developers statements were that Liara is a fan favorite, and I've proved that by mentioning other characters where developers said they were fan favorites when they were not
As for the infographic, what would I be countering? Basic math? Everytime a playthrough is counted, Liara gets three points from the getgo. Garrus gets one (or zero, if he's dead). Now, the developers haven't mentioned how many playthroughs (or if they are all complete playthroughs. I think they are, but I don't know). But the game sold 1.5mil the first month. That would be several million extra points in Liara's favor, right out of the gate, no?
What she's not smart enough to ask Hackett(since they appear to be friends) to study those areas? Or maybe ask Anderson? What did the council investigate? Wouldn't T'soni go with them to help out? All she did was become an information broker and wasn't committed to stopping the reapers.
Why would Hackett have any authority over archaeological clearance? Or Anderson? They're not dictators. As for what the Council investigated, it was related to Vigil, but there's certainly nothing saying that Liara didn't go along with them. In any case, the Shadow Broker was directly connected to the Collectors and therefore the Reapers.
So if you died, you wouldn't think it just a little bit strange that one of your co-workers (not even one that you're friends with, you just work together) took the clothes that you died in and pinned them up in their house?
I'd be surprised, but not offended. It'd be a "huh, I didn't know you were that invested" moment.
The developers don't have any statements on the infographic. The developers statements were that Liara is a fan favorite, and I've proved that by mentioning other characters where developers said they were fan favorites when they were not
As for the infographic, what would I be countering? Basic math? Everytime a playthrough is counted, Liara gets three points from the getgo. Garrus gets one (or zero, if he's dead). Now, the developers haven't mentioned how many playthroughs (or if they are all complete playthroughs. I think they are, but I don't know). But the game sold 1.5mil the first month. That would be several million extra points in Liara's favor, right out of the gate, no?
Er, no, because Thessia doesn't show up until the end of the game, so she'd have the same number of points "right out of the gate" as James. How did they compare on the infographic?
Why is it pointless? I would like to see a poll done had she been a romance for one gender and only available for half the game
Yeah, but you can't.
So if you died, you wouldn't think it just a little bit strange that one of your co-workers (not even one that you're friends with, you just work together) took the clothes that you died in and pinned them up in their house?
Liara is your friend in the game, whether you like it or not. Just like you have to be an alliance soldier, just like you have to be a Spectre, just like you have to recruit a mentally unstable psycho from a prison ship, just like you have to care that Earth is burning, just like you have to recruit suitrat Tali in ME1, just like you have to work for Cerberus, etc, etc, etc.
Why would Hackett have any authority over archaeological clearance? Or Anderson? They're not dictators. As for what the Council investigated, it was related to Vigil, but there's certainly nothing saying that Liara didn't go along with them. In any case, the Shadow Broker was directly connected to the Collectors and therefore the Reapers.
I'd be surprised, but not offended. It'd be a "huh, I didn't know you were that invested" moment.
Er, no, because Thessia doesn't show up until the end of the game, so she'd have the same number of points "right out of the gate" as James. How did they compare on the infographic?
Maybe you don't understand how the infographic works. It totals up the number of times a character is selected to be in the party and breaks it down as a percentage. In one playthrough, Liara is required three times. It doesn't matter whether it happens early or late, it still happens.
Maybe you don't understand how the infographic works. It totals up the number of times a character is selected to be in the party and breaks it down as a percentage. In one playthrough, Liara is required three times. It doesn't matter whether it happens early or late, it still happens.
I was referring to what you said about many of these games not being full playthroughs. How many of them would have reached Thessia? And what's the percentage difference between Liara and James?
Liara is your friend in the game, whether you like it or not. Just like you have to be an alliance soldier, just like you have to be a Spectre, just like you have to recruit a mentally unstable psycho from a prison ship, just like you have to care that Earth is burning, just like you have to recruit suitrat Tali in ME1, just like you have to work for Cerberus, etc, etc, etc.
Something like this?
Mind you, not a theory I personally subscribe to. We see asari on pictures and videos and they look unchanged.
Why would Hackett have any authority over archaeological clearance? Or Anderson? They're not dictators. As for what the Council investigated, it was related to Vigil, but there's certainly nothing saying that Liara didn't go along with them. In any case, the Shadow Broker was directly connected to the Collectors and therefore the Reapers.
Really? Than why was Hackett able to give her access to the archives on Mars? Anderson could be made councilor and give her the ok to study at Eden Prime and Mars. She still was not committed to stopping the reapers.
Yeah, but you can't.
Liara is your friend in the game, whether you like it or not. Just like you have to be an alliance soldier, just like you have to be a Spectre, just like you have to recruit a mentally unstable psycho from a prison ship, just like you have to care that Earth is burning, just like you have to recruit suitrat Tali in ME1, just like you have to work for Cerberus, etc, etc, etc.
Shepard being an Alliance soldier is part of the backstory, you become a Spectre through your actions. You have to recruit someone to go on a mission. You actually don't have to care that Earth is burning, you're just ordered to rally the galaxy and save it. You have to recruit Tali because she has the data you need, you work for Cerberus to fix it.
None of these are emotional responses. Liara, by contrast, you're forced to like, and any "backstory" is in fact, story. So if you threaten to throw her into a volcano, she's still your bestie, somehow
Really? Than why was Hackett able to give her access to the archives on Mars? Anderson could be made councilor and give her the ok to study at Eden Prime and Mars. She still was not committed to stopping the reapers.
I suspect Hackett leaned on a few people rather harder than he would have immediately after ME1. And individual Councilors have no special authority over the government they represent; only the Council as a whole can pass edicts that affect multiple governments.
Shepard being an Alliance soldier is part of the backstory, you become a Spectre through your actions. You have to recruit someone to go on a mission. You actually don't have to care that Earth is burning, you're just ordered to rally the galaxy and save it. You have to recruit Tali because she has the data you need, you work for Cerberus to fix it.
None of these are emotional responses. Liara, by contrast, you're forced to like, and any "backstory" is in fact, story. So if you threaten to throw her into a volcano, she's still your bestie, somehow
Actually, you do have to care; it's forced into your dialogue.
Yeah, that disconnect between player agency and Shepard's auto-interaction with people is jarring. But hey, conversations at least flow better, even if they conflict with how you spent 2 whole games establishing Shepard's personality.So if you threaten to throw her into a volcano, she's still your bestie, somehow
Actually, you do have to care; it's forced into your dialogue.
Shepard is forced to care, not the player, and Shepard cares only because the script mandates it, not because of player input. In my game, ME3 Shepard is an automaton who routinely comes into conflict with his past ideals and opinions.
Right, but it's the same thing overall, in that emotion is forced. Not that I care tremendously, because it fits the character, I'm just saying. I mostly just objected to having to work with the Alliance, because the Alliance is so damned boring; I never thought I'd miss Cerberus.
How does your Shepard become an automaton?
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