1180 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

Shepard being an Alliance soldier is part of the backstory

 
And Liara being your friend is part of the story.
 

you become a Spectre through your actions.

Which again, is part of the story, a part you cannot change, no matter how much you hate the council, politics, authority or whatever.

You have to recruit someone to go on a mission.

No ****, Sherlock. But I can't tell TIM: 'no dude. No crazy, psychotic convicts on my ship, give me another one'. You have to.

You actually don't have to care that Earth is burning, you're just ordered to rally the galaxy and save it.

Well, I don't know about your Mass Effect 3 games, but in mine Shepard always cares. You must have a very special edition.

You have to recruit Tali because she has the data you need, you work for Cerberus to fix it.

No. After you've acquired the data Udina commands you to take her with you if you don't want to take her. The data is already in your posession at this point.

None of these are emotional responses. Liara, by contrast, you're forced to like, and any "backstory" is in fact, story.

Just like you're forced to care about Earth, forced to not care about being with Cerberus (or not caring enough, at least).

Oh but those aren't emotions of course. Lol

[o Ventus]

How does your Shepard become an automaton?

Because he's forced to say a lot of stupid dialogue that directly conflicts with how I spent the previous games establishing his personality.

Chief among them, his treatment of Liara in ME3. In ME1, the most emotion I've ever shown to Liara is the renegade dialogue after killing Benezia (where Shepard effectively tells her to stop being such a crybaby about her mother dying). Other than that, I've done mostly neutral dialogues with her. As far as I'm concerned, Shepard and Liara work together on the same ship and that's it. They aren't particularly close, but Shepard doesn't hate her, and he certainly isn't her BFF.

There's plenty more, but that's the one relevant to the thread.

[o Ventus]

And Liara being your friend is part of the story.

A part of the story that flies in the face of how many people characterized their Shepard. How do you not see the issue wih that? In a trilogy that totes its freedom for the player to semi-customize the experience, flat-out ignoring something the player can do or say (effectively retconning it and making it non-canon) seems a little bit antithetical to the design philosophy.

You can also play a pretty racist Shepard who loathes batarians because they slaughtered his family and fought against him on Torfan (assuming Shepard is male for the sake of simplicity). If Shepard in ME3 was all of a sudden best friends with Balak, would that not strike you as odd?

[Barquiel]

Polls, surveys, and reviews are inherently subjective, and thus meaningless in this kind of discussion. The infographic is the only relevant piece of data here, and that only tells us basic information, like "players romanced X character the most" or "players brought X character to missions the most". The infographic itself is somewhat flawed in its presentation. The information is meaningless without context for the numbers (not to mention omission of DLCs from the charts).
 

 

Are polls, the infographic or the surveys 100% accurate? Of course not. But all major surveys produced very similar results, which support the comments made by the developers and the data of the official infographic. On the other hand, the people who claim that Liara is not one of the most popular characters/most popular love interest, or is hated by a large portion of our fan base have...absolutely nothing to back up their claims.

[o Ventus]

Are polls, the infographic or the surveys 100% accurate? Of course not. But all major surveys produced very similar results, which support the comments made by the developers and the data of the official infographic. On the other hand, the people who claim that Liara is not one of the most popular characters/most popular love interest, or is hated by a large portion of our fan base have...absolutely nothing to back up their claims.

Popularity as a character is one thing (albeit meaningless here because several other characters are comparable in that regard), but popularity as a romance is another. I romanced Tali on a whim in ME2, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like Tali. I also have a couple non-romance playthroughs, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in romancing anybody.

Liara's popularity (and not just Liara, but every character to whom romance actually applies) is skewed simply by performin the action. It's easy to say she's popular because she scored X amount of points more than someone else, but what of the people who romanced her but didn't like it? The data is read as them romancing Liara for one playthrough, but the player(s) themselves might not like the content.

[Xilizhra]

Because he's forced to say a lot of stupid dialogue that directly conflicts with how I spent the previous games establishing his personality.

Chief among them, his treatment of Liara in ME3. In ME1, the most emotion I've ever shown to Liara is the renegade dialogue after killing Benezia (where Shepard effectively tells her to stop being such a crybaby about her mother dying). Other than that, I've done mostly neutral dialogues with her. As far as I'm concerned, Shepard and Liara work together on the same ship and that's it. They aren't particularly close, but Shepard doesn't hate her, and he certainly isn't her BFF.

There's plenty more, but that's the one relevant to the thread.

What are some of the others?

[Mordokai]

Popularity as a character is one thing (albeit meaningless here because several other characters are comparable in that regard), but popularity as a romance is another. I romanced Tali on a whim in ME2, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like Tali. I also have a couple non-romance playthroughs, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in romancing anybody.

Liara's popularity (and not just Liara, but every character to whom romance actually applies) is skewed simply by performin the action. It's easy to say she's popular because she scored X amount of points more than someone else, but what of the people who romanced her but didn't like it? The data is read as them romancing Liara for one playthrough, but the player(s) themselves might not like the content.

 

So you're basically saying every popularity content ever is meaningless because people who voted for characters probably didn't like them anyway, but voted for them anyway?

[DuskWanderer]

 
And Liara being your friend is part of the story.
 

Which again, is part of the story, a part you cannot change, no matter how much you hate the council, politics, authority or whatever.


No ****, Sherlock. But I can't tell TIM: 'no dude. No crazy, psychotic convicts on my ship, give me another one'. You have to.


Well, I don't know about your Mass Effect 3 games, but in mine Shepard always cares. You must have a very special edition.


No. After you've acquired the data Udina commands you to take her with you if you don't want to take her. The data is already in your posession at this point.


Just like you're forced to care about Earth, forced to not care about being with Cerberus (or not caring enough, at least).

Oh but those aren't emotions of course. Lol

Liara being your friend makes no sense considering how you can treat her. It's completely retconned. Orders are orders when it comes to Tali, and you're not exactly crawling with other choices when it comes to biotic specialists, given you're with a terrorist organizations. By contrast, what orders are made for liking Liara?

 

I don't recall being forced to care about Earth. The most I heard was that Earth has been hit really hard ("double that for Earth"), not actually caring.

[DuskWanderer]

Are polls, the infographic or the surveys 100% accurate? Of course not. But all major surveys produced very similar results, which support the comments made by the developers and the data of the official infographic. On the other hand, the people who claim that Liara is not one of the most popular characters/most popular love interest, or is hated by a large portion of our fan base have...absolutely nothing to back up their claims.

We've actually proven that the data is hogwash, and the complaining these boards provide is quite ample evidence.

[DuskWanderer]

Popularity as a character is one thing (albeit meaningless here because several other characters are comparable in that regard), but popularity as a romance is another. I romanced Tali on a whim in ME2, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like Tali. I also have a couple non-romance playthroughs, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in romancing anybody.

Liara's popularity (and not just Liara, but every character to whom romance actually applies) is skewed simply by performin the action. It's easy to say she's popular because she scored X amount of points more than someone else, but what of the people who romanced her but didn't like it? The data is read as them romancing Liara for one playthrough, but the player(s) themselves might not like the content.

Another thing to recall: There's a bug in ME1 where Liara is locked in as a romance when you tell her no. If I recall, you're also assumed to be in a relationship with her if you just as much as talk to her.

 

Also, if you're not in a romance at all when you start ME3, Aetheyta says you're with Liara. Wonder if that skews the numbers

[Xilizhra]

We've actually proven that the data is hogwash, and the complaining these boards provide is quite ample evidence.

Er, you're holding up the vocal minority of people who love complaining about things as "ample" evidence? One may as well hold up Liara's fanbase as such too...

[DuskWanderer]

Er, you're holding up the vocal minority of people who love complaining about things as "ample" evidence? One may as well hold up Liara's fanbase as such too...

 

Unlike the Liaramancers, I don't discount that the opposition exists, or that they have reasons for what they do. However, that doesn't make her a "fan-favorite"

[Daemul]

Bioware have never given out romance stats so I have no idea what people are talking about when it comes to that.

On Liara, she doesn't bother me, she's not very interesting and her whispery voice makes me want to fall sleep, but I don't hate her. Whenever I create a new Femshep I always romance her, for the lesbian sex, I'm not even going to pretend that I have any other motivation.

Her romance in ME3 isn't very good since Bioware tried to give her too many roles, but it's better than most of the other squadmates, which isn't really a complement since romances in the series all suck and are shallow as hell, but you get my point.

What I don't get is why Liara gets so much hate for being forced on people when Garrus is infinitely more guilty of this. The dude has so many lines and conversations, more than even Liara, even though his relevancy to the plot is zero. He's the most useless out of the original 6 ME1 squad mates plot wise, the rest actually do something over the course of the trilogy, Garrus just makes calibration jokes.

[Xilizhra]

Unlike the Liaramancers, I don't discount that the opposition exists, or that they have reasons for what they do. However, that doesn't make her a "fan-favorite"

My point was more that arguments like this with about ten participants are poor testing grounds for determining the feelings of the entire fanbase. I'd say a pretty significant chunk of it, albeit not the forumgoing type, has a reaction akin to "hot blue alien chick=liked."

[Farangbaa]

Liara being your friend makes no sense considering how you can treat her. It's completely retconned. Orders are orders when it comes to Tali, and you're not exactly crawling with other choices when it comes to biotic specialists, given you're with a terrorist organizations. By contrast, what orders are made for liking Liara?

 

I don't recall being forced to care about Earth. The most I heard was that Earth has been hit really hard ("double that for Earth"), not actually caring.

 

Tali the biotic specialist.

 

I think we're done here.

[Daemul]

Another thing to recall: There's a bug in ME1 where Liara is locked in as a romance when you tell her no. If I recall, you're also assumed to be in a relationship with her if you just as much as talk to her.

Also, if you're not in a romance at all when you start ME3, Aetheyta says you're with Liara. Wonder if that skews the numbers

Apart from the ninjamance bug, I have no idea where you are getting the rest from. The game makes so such assumptions and that Aetheyta dialogue is another bug which pops up. I've played through ME3 with a single Shepard many times so believe me when I say that it is a bug, when I play I get the "Commander" line.

What numbers are you talking about by the way?

[Barquiel]

Popularity as a character is one thing (albeit meaningless here because several other characters are comparable in that regard), but popularity as a romance is another. I romanced Tali on a whim in ME2, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like Tali. I also have a couple non-romance playthroughs, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in romancing anybody.

Liara's popularity (and not just Liara, but every character to whom romance actually applies) is skewed simply by performin the action. It's easy to say she's popular because she scored X amount of points more than someone else, but what of the people who romanced her but didn't like it? The data is read as them romancing Liara for one playthrough, but the player(s) themselves might not like the content.

 
Liara being mandatory on some missions doesn't explain the results of fanmade polls (Garrus' popularity is certainly comparable, but he has even more content than Liara, so it's not exactly surprising). I mean, nobody fills out a survey and votes for Liara as the most used/popular character because she was mandatory on some missions. And I doubt you would vote for Tali in some survey asking for your favorite love interest
 
As I have said, fanmade polls are no definitive proof. Even the most comprehensive poll with 17.000 votes is biased in favor of fans, hardcore players or whatever you want to call the non-casual players. But they're certainly a much better indicator of squadmate popularity than threads like this (I doubt we have 100 different people posting in this thread^^), and they support what the devs are saying.

[Daemul]

Liara being mandatory on some missions doesn't explain the results of fanmade polls (Garrus' popularity is certainly comparable, but he has even more content than Liara, so it's not exactly surprising). I mean, nobody fills out a survey and votes for Liara as the most used/popular character because she was mandatory on some missions. And I doubt you would vote for Tali in some survey asking for your favorite love interest

As I have said, fanmade polls are no definitive proof. Even the most comprehensive poll with 17.000 votes is biased in favor of fans, hardcore players or whatever you want to call the non-casual players. But they're certainly a much better indicator of squadmate popularity than threads like this (I doubt we have 100 different people posting in this thread^^), and they support what the devs are saying.

17000? Are you talking about that German survey? The results for that were interesting, as they showed that two of the most polarizing characters, in this case Liara and Ashley, actually make up 2 out of the 3 most popular romances. That gave me a good laugh.

[Barquiel]

17000? Are you talking about that German survey? The results for that were interesting, as they showed that two of the most polarizing characters, in this case Liara and Ashley, actually make up 2 out of the 3 most popular romances. That gave me a good laugh.

 

Indeed, the Mass Effect universe survey

[Steelcan]

Indeed, the Mass Effect universe survey

 

I wonder how many games the survey covered, because I have a save where I romanced Liara, but I think we all know my opinion of her

[Daemul]

I wonder how many games the survey covered, because I have a save where I romanced Liara, but I think we all know my opinion of her

It didn't take your saves or anything, it was just a normal survey where you manually inputted the answers. So obviously when they ask who you romanced you're going to choose your canon Shepard's LI.

[Hela]

Rational answer: Overexposed (this despite sitting out most of ME2) and wildly inconsistent character. She's a... fake character in that I don't buy her as a badass or a combat worthy person. Even starting with ME2 before the other games there was something I just couldn't buy into in regards to her character. She tries to be series all the time yet comes off as a bufoon out of her element. ME1 Liara was perfect and ME2 started well until the Shadow Broker stuff came up. Her vendetta with the Yahg was stupid; "I'm gonna kill this guy cause he kidnapped a guy who helped me by betraying him!" Garrus was more justified in being pissed off. So was Jacob upon reuniting with Ronald. But Liara? It's like some angsty prep schoolgirl is mad because her teacher gave her an F. I also can't stand her tone of voice in ME3. Like her voice actress is overdoing the "loud whisper" and you can hear it in her voice. Ridiculous.

I agree on many points here. The voice is, for my taste, too...dramatic, I guess? As in everything she says is conveying a sense of urgency and importance. I have been struggling to like her, without great success. Also the journey from a naive girl to infamous information broker? Fake might be a strong word, but I am incredulous about such change. Or, at least, if it truly was possible to go against her I would see the other side to her better.

Comparing to Miranda - I strongly disliked her at the beginning of ME2 but over the course of time she has become one of my favourite characters. Her I find believable, and I guess that makes it easier for me to sympathize with her character arc. Or it´s just that I like stronger, more agressive types alltogether 

[TheNightSlasher]

It's been a LONG TIME since I posted in SP section of the forums. But I recently started yet another playthrough of the trilogy and so feel like posting here:

 

I don't hate Liara. She's neither downright boring like some character(s) nor a self-centered character. I quite like her story progression over the course of the three games and the various transitions she goes through (from a young innocent asari to an all powerful shadow broker etc, it wasn't done exceptionally well or anything but it was still nice).

 

There are a few things that do annoy me when it comes to Liara, particularly as a LI but none of them make me want to hate her. At certain points, it does seem like she's undergoing mood swings based on conversations with her - I find it kinda hard to strike middle ground with her at times. It's mildly amusing yet frustrating.

 

Liara's alright IMO, better than quite a few characters in the game. But she's no Thane!

[themikefest]

 

Also, if you're not in a romance at all when you start ME3, Aetheyta says you're with Liara. Wonder if that skews the numbers

I had that problem as well. After hearing that I didn't talk with her anymore till a patch came along and fixed it. Not sure when the patch came out, but she doesn't say that anymore

[Dale]

I got this off of Google images.   Concept art of a brutally handsome MALE Asari:

 

 

For those who hate Liara, I wonder if their tune would change if Liara was this.