1180 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Same here! Always romance Liara. IMO she is the ideal romance option. And as already stated many times, it's only a very dedicated, hardcore and vocal minority that complains about her. I mean, James Vega (I repeat: James Vega!) thinks Liara is attractive. Yep, this is definitely problem. Are you serious?????

That's not the problem in and of itself. The problem was the way the scene is written. From a developer point of view, it's oddly over descriptive. The way it's written it's very Mary Sue like. It's not like it's a single line of dialog where James mentions how hot Liara is like he does for Jack/Brooks. 

 

And no. There is no canon romance. Not even close. She may be a writers favorite but is by no means a canon romance. Ashley is closer to a canon romance and only because she's featured in the trailers as one. But she isn't one either. There isn't a canon ending/romance/anything. 

[xAmilli0n]

She's not the canon romance, she's the canon bestie.

 

No, I'm pretty sure both of those designations go to Garrus.

[DuskWanderer]

No, I'm pretty sure both of those designations go to Garrus.

 

Given that most players play M!Shep, I'm not sure Garrus can be the canon romance. 

 

And, at the very least, Garrus can be ignored after recruiting him in ME2, kill him during the suicide mission, or ignore him after the Menae mission, and he'll never talk to you after Tuchanka. Liara...always the hug, always coming up to the cabin.

[zestalyn]

It's useless debating over who's the canon romance/etc, that's so subjective. My headcanon is that Shepard is FemShep who romances Garrus, while her besties are Tali and Liara.   

I feel like most people can agree that the writers have put the most effort into Liara, Garrus, and Tali in general, given they have about the most cutscenes throughout the trilogy, which makes it feel like they provide a more fulfilling romance.

I wouldn't say this is entirely because the writers favored these three, but I feel it partly has to do with the fact that those three are the main representatives of important alien factions Shep has to deal with (hence all of the cutscenes) and they just happen to be romanceable squadmates as well. 

Talking about a canon romance would be relevant if we were talking about something like the feature film adaption of ME, which would probably feature MShep romancing Liara. That's just probably what the writers would've wanted given how they wrote Liara, and having the heterosexual male protagonist romance a beautiful humanoid alien woman is just the most marketable for this genre (much to my personal disappointment lol)

MShep with Miranda/Ashley is easily marketable, too, but IMO making a feature film about that would be wasting the unique 'exotic' charm Bioware has created in the ME universe regarding cross-species relationships that have depth. 

[Mordokai]

I wouldn't say this is entirely because the writers favored these three, but I feel it partly has to do with the fact that those three are the main representatives of important alien factions Shep has to deal with (hence all of the cutscenes) and they just happen to be romanceable squadmates as well.

 

Well, Liara does have a little advantage compared to other two, since she was envisioned as a romantic interest for PC from the start of the trilogy. Garrus and Tali got added because they were so popular. Which is great and they are both great romances in their own right(won't go into how I feel about Tali's romance, since that is purely subjective), but Liara is the only one with a romance spanning all three games. Proponents of canon romance theory often cite that as a good evidence for Liara being that one canon romance. If I'd believe in it, that would be as good as evidence as any.

 

Personally of course, Liara and FemShep are canon for me.

 

Talking about a canon romance would be relevant if we were talking about something like the feature film adaption of ME, which would probably feature MShep romancing Liara. That's just probably what the writers would've wanted given how they wrote Liara, and having the heterosexual male protagonist romance a beautiful humanoid alien woman is just the most marketable for this genre (much to my personal disappointment lol)

MShep with Miranda/Ashley is easily marketable, too, but IMO making a feature film about that would be wasting the unique 'exotic' charm Bioware has created in the ME universe regarding cross-species relationships that have depth. 

 

Funny you talk about a movie adaptation. I've made a post some time ago, where I described how I see it happening. If you're interested, give it a read, I'd be interested in knowing what you think.

 

But you make a good point. Marketing MShep/Liara caters to the most typical audience(young, heterosexual male gamers), as well as capitalizes on one of the unique appeals of MEverse. After all, xeno romance is a big thing and while I believe there will be more important things to be had in the movie, it's an easy way to show something different and easily recognizable.

[DuskWanderer]

The "effort" put into Liara's romance is laughable. Sure, it's shoveled down your throat more than the other ones, but the dialogue is just plain terrible. All you really do in the first game is talk about yourself. We don't have extra scenes like A/K does on the Citadel, and one extra eyes turning black scene might have been appealing in the beginning, but honestly, it's lost it's appeal. 

 

The second game's romantic dialogue was a few scenes in a DLC

 

The third game I haven't even tried it, I have so many better options. Tali and Garrus (while I don't believe Garrus's romance for a second) has infinitely better dialogue and feels personal. Liara's just...boring

[Barquiel]

It's useless debating over who's the canon romance/etc, that's so subjective. My headcanon is that Shepard is FemShep who romances Garrus, while her besties are Tali and Liara.   

I feel like most people can agree that the writers have put the most effort into Liara, Garrus, and Tali in general, given they have about the most cutscenes throughout the trilogy, which makes it feel like they provide a more fulfilling romance.

I wouldn't say this is entirely because the writers favored these three, but I feel it partly has to do with the fact that those three are the main representatives of important alien factions Shep has to deal with (hence all of the cutscenes) and they just happen to be romanceable squadmates as well. 

Talking about a canon romance would be relevant if we were talking about something like the feature film adaption of ME, which would probably feature MShep romancing Liara. That's just probably what the writers would've wanted given how they wrote Liara, and having the heterosexual male protagonist romance a beautiful humanoid alien woman is just the most marketable for this genre (much to my personal disappointment lol)

MShep with Miranda/Ashley is easily marketable, too, but IMO making a feature film about that would be wasting the unique 'exotic' charm Bioware has created in the ME universe regarding cross-species relationships that have depth.

My FemShep's got a sismance with Kasumi. Does that count? I really enjoyed Liara's romance and consider it my canon romance for my Shep (the evolution of Liara really makes the relationship evolve in a very unique way. And the romance has experienced their ups and downs, which makes it more meaningful imo)...but you are right of course that there is no canon Shepard. This has been said so by the devs several times. That Liara and Garrus got so much content because they're fan favorites is pretty obvious. There is only default Shepard, who has as few background contacts and histories as possible, so new players can jump in at ME2/3 and not be confused by past things/characters, that's all.

As for the movie, when they said they were looking to base the movie around the events of Mass Effect 1, I was instantly very sceptical. Not because I really care if the writers establish a movie canon or not (my Shepard is rather mainstream anyway...except that I prefer FemShep), but for the overall quality of it. You cannot fit Shepard's adventure from Eden Prime to Ilos into movie size. Either it would go really fast or some planets like Feros would be entirely skipped over.

[Shermos]

I rather liked Liara. Her character evolved a lot over the series, and for the better. The thing which bothered people was that they felt like romancing Liara was kind of pushed on you or you miss out on something if you don't romance her. Plus there are the missions where she is given primary importance. I didn't see it as too much of an issue myself.

[xAmilli0n]

Given that most players play M!Shep, I'm not sure Garrus can be the canon romance. 

 

ORLY?

 

And, at the very least, Garrus can be ignored after recruiting him in ME2, kill him during the suicide mission, or ignore him after the Menae mission, and he'll never talk to you after Tuchanka. Liara...always the hug, always coming up to the cabin.

 

So Liara likes to give hugs.  Who doesn't like hugs?

[DeinonSlayer]

So Liara likes to give hugs. Who doesn't like hugs?

I was still busy WTF'ing over the "flay you with my mind" thing when the hug/longing sigh happened the first time. Now I wish the hug was a paragon interrupt instead of an unskippable cutscene, with an option to jump straight to the following dialogue wheel. By the end of that conversation, I was looking for a "just who the hell are you and what happened to Liara" dialogue option.

It's as others have noted: somehow we were supposed to see Liara as a badass information broker who commits premeditated murder in her office without a rise in blood pressure, and a naive virginal scientist who can't focus on the killing of reapers as revenge for Thessia because it's "too callous," both at the same time.

[xAmilli0n]

I was still busy WTF'ing over the "flay you with my mind" thing when the hug/longing sigh happened the first time. Now I wish the hug was a paragon interrupt instead of an unskippable cutscene, with an option to jump straight to the following dialogue wheel. By the end of that conversation, I was looking for a "just who the hell are you and what happened to Liara" dialogue option.

 

I guess I'm just pro-hug.

 

 

It's as others have noted: somehow we were supposed to see Liara as a badass information broker who commits premeditated murder in her office without a rise in blood pressure, and a naive virginal scientist who can't focus on the killing of reapers as revenge for Thessia because it's "too callous," both at the same time.

 

Yes?

[DuskWanderer]

ORLY?

 

 

So Liara likes to give hugs.  Who doesn't like hugs?

 

That's cute, but a hack,

 

I love hugs, personally. But I don't love random hugs. I hug my female relatives, girlfriend, and close female friends, and I bro-hug my male best friends.

 

I do have people in my life who would be similar to how I treat Liara: Relative annoyance when they're around and I do my best to ignore them whenever they come to me. I don't hug them, nor has it crossed my mind to do so.

[Vilio1]

It's as others have noted: somehow we were supposed to see Liara as a badass information broker who commits premeditated murder in her office without a rise in blood pressure, and a naive virginal scientist who can't focus on the killing of reapers as revenge for Thessia because it's "too callous," both at the same time.

 

Yes. Or do you think killing some Shadow Broker agents is the same as watching the deaths of a few million innocent civilians on her homeworld? Or do you think that even hardened combat veterans are immune to grief, death and destruction? In that case, PTSD would be extremely rare.

[themikefest]

After the broker is killed, we get the option to hug or not. Why couldn't that option be available we first see T'soni and again when she leaves the Normandy if you decide to bring her up to the ship?

[Mordokai]

I don't think Liara ever changed all that much. The entire point of LotSB, at least as I see it, is showing that her appearance on Illium was a mask donned that helped her survive in a dog-eat-dog world. When she finally breaks down and cries after killing the Broker, you once again see the real Liara, the gentle scientist and know that she's in fact always been there. Sure, she picked some darkness along the way, but for the most part, she is still very much the same. Only a little more badass now.

 

That's the point of her character growth. She realizes hard decisions need to be made now and then, but ultimately, she is still the same. She went from paragon to paragade. And she is a better and stronger character for it.

 

Sure, more time and more showing of how that happened would be great. But I can work with what I've been given.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yes. Or do you think killing some Shadow Broker agents is the same as watching the deaths of a few million innocent civilians on her homeworld? Or do you think that even hardened combat veterans are immune to grief, death and destruction? In that case, PTSD would be extremely rare.

 

Have you ever killed before? Have you ever had to deal with death before? Death is death. 

 

She'd have some kind of reaction to killing Shadow Broker agents (whose innocence is a point of contention) compared to civilians being killed. She's practically breaking down entirely from it. She's not a good character in that aspect. She's a tool to be used by the creators to be whatever they need/want her to be at any specific time. 

[von uber]

I guess there must be a lot of fans of vasir here given she tries to kill liara

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I guess there must be a lot of fans of vasir here given she tries to kill liara

 

Not THE reason why I think she's alright, but it is ok.

 

I did wish to be able to hand Liara over to the original SB in exchange for his help.

[themikefest]

I would like to of had Vasir on my squad instead of Liara.

[Vilio1]

Have you ever killed before? Have you ever had to deal with death before? Death is death. 
 
She'd have some kind of reaction to killing Shadow Broker agents (whose innocence is a point of contention) compared to civilians being killed. She's practically breaking down entirely from it. She's not a good character in that aspect. She's a tool to be used by the creators to be whatever they need/want her to be at any specific time.

 
No, it's not. For example, PTSD just doesn't work the way you are implying.

There is nothing wrong with simply not liking Liara's reaction and generally preferring more "stoic" characters, but the argument that Liara's breakdown immediately after the mission is unrealistic and out of character for her just doesn't hold water. Or are you telling me a "badass" character can never be scared or distressed? How many people did Shepard kill before? Tali? Ashley? They're all distressed (or more) at one point or another in the story.

 

 

I like Vasir, one of the best villains in ME.

[xAmilli0n]

I guess there must be a lot of fans of vasir here given she tries to kill liara

 

Its definitely not the reason I like Vasir, but Vasir definitely shined during her short time in game.

[DeinonSlayer]

No, it's not. For example, PTSD just doesn't work the way you are implying.
There is nothing wrong with simply not liking Liara's reaction and generally preferring more "stoic" characters, but the argument that Liara's breakdown immediately after the mission is unrealistic and out of character for her just doesn't hold water. Or are you telling me a "badass" character can never be scared or distressed? How many people did Shepard kill before? Tali? Ashley? They're all distressed (or more) at one point or another in the story.
 
 
I like Vasir, one of the best villains in ME.

Do you know what an EFP is? Have you ever been shot at by one? Massively has. I think it's safe to say he would have a better bead on the stresses of combat than just about anyone here.

[DuskWanderer]

Not THE reason why I think she's alright, but it is ok.

 

I did wish to be able to hand Liara over to the original SB in exchange for his help.

 

Yes, I'd be perfectly cool with pulling a Fenris. You wouldn't even need to bring Tela Vasir to replace her, just getting rid of the nightmare finally is enough. 

[Vilio1]

Do you know what an EFP is? Have you ever been shot at by one? Massively has. I think it's safe to say he would have a better bead on the stresses of combat than just about anyone here.

 

That is completely irrelevant because nobody here has experienced anything similar like the reaper war. Not to mention that people respond to similar events in very different ways.

[Sir DeLoria]

That is completely irrelevant because nobody here has experienced anything similar like the reaper war. Not to mention that people respond to similar events in very different ways.

War is war and while people respond differently basic psychology is usually the same.