1180 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

BSN delivers! Sunny outside, 75 degrees, play round of golf or participate in a Liara hate thread? Hmmmm.... Keep this one going for a while. I'll be back in three hours.

[Mordokai]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

And you're trying to say what exactly by that?

[General TSAR]

At least there was Javik, who humiliate her and the Asary at every turn. 

Yep.

 

Shame he was a D1DLC character. 

[stysiaq]

Long story short: BioWare has a "thing" for bland female characters which are given focus/importance inversly proportional to what it should be. Liara is just another iteration of the same character that prevails in all their games. Young, attractive, important/central to the plot. It gets old and irritating. Especially when there's a thick layer of plot armor that surrounds this character, even if it's not the case for other characters.

 

When you have a character like Liara - young (barely an adult!), brilliant, who pulls a net of agents outta her butt in 2 years between ME1 and ME2 (really, it irritates me more than any other thing about her, she still was a socially awkward character at the end of ME1), powerful, resourceful, etc. - I can no longer relate to such character. She feels like a bad fanfic protagonist. Then you remember that it's a BioWare game, so you probably can guide the story to have her killed - but you can't.

 

Seriously - when players crave for an option to guide the story to have a character killed - which is the exact opposite of what the player should want (Wrex will serve as exhibit A; his life is a reward for playing ME1 in the right way and he is dead by default in ME2, so you want to replay the game to have him in) - then you know that you look at a badly written character that inspires hates toward him/her.

 

The same goes for DA Leliana (I guess), which is even more irritating because you could kill her in DA:O and everyone remembers the classic Gaider response to that criticism. 

It baffles me that BioWare insists on doing that, while other NPCs/squaddies are often leagues better and more interesting. Take Zevran, for example - a character that was almost unanimously loved in DA:O. He too can be killed in DA:O, yet his death transfers to DA2. Reason? He is not a bland female character.

[Pateu]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Well, her analogy is as correct as yours.

[Heimdall]

 

Long story short: BioWare has a "thing" for bland female characters which are given focus/importance inversly proportional to what it should be. Liara is just another iteration of the same character that prevails in all their games. Young, attractive, important/central to the plot. It gets old and irritating. Especially when there's a thick layer of plot armor that surrounds this character, even if it's not the case for other characters.

 

When you have a character like Liara - young (barely an adult!), brilliant, who pulls a net of agents outta her butt in 2 years between ME1 and ME2 (really, it irritates me more than any other thing about her, she still was a socially awkward character at the end of ME1), powerful, resourceful, etc. - I can no longer relate to such character. She feels like a bad fanfic protagonist. Then you remember that it's a BioWare game, so you probably can guide the story to have her killed - but you can't.

 

Seriously - when players crave for an option to guide the story to have a character killed - which is the exact opposite of what the player should want (Wrex will serve as exhibit A; his life is a reward for playing ME1 in the right way and he is dead by default in ME2, so you want to replay the game to have him in) - then you know that you look at a badly written character that inspires hates toward him/her.

 

The same goes for DA Leliana (I guess), which is even more irritating because you could kill her in DA:O and everyone remembers the classic Gaider response to that criticism. 

It baffles me that BioWare insists on doing that, while other NPCs/squaddies are often leagues better and more interesting. Take Zevran, for example - a character that was almost unanimously loved in DA:O. He too can be killed in DA:O, yet his death transfers to DA2. Reason? He is not a bland female character.

 

Zevran was unanimously loved?  First I've heard of it.  I thought he was bland and unimpressive.

[Mordokai]

Zevran was unanimously loved?  First I've heard of it.  I thought he was bland and unimpressive.

 

And while we're at it, it's not like Liara has a lot of fans and love for her as well.

[themikefest]

Zevran was unanimously loved?  First I've heard of it.  I thought he was bland and unimpressive.

I only recruited him once to get the romance trophy otherwise I kill him since he tried to kill me.

[Livi14]

The same goes for DA Leliana (I guess), which is even more irritating because you could kill her in DA:O and everyone remembers the classic Gaider response to that criticism. 

It baffles me that BioWare insists on doing that, while other NPCs/squaddies are often leagues better and more interesting. Take Zevran, for example - a character that was almost unanimously loved in DA:O. He too can be killed in DA:O, yet his death transfers to DA2. Reason? He is not a bland female character.

 

 

Zevran was unanimously loved? What? David Gaider said Leliana was the most popular Origins romance by quite a bit (probably the reason why they brought her back), just like Liara is the most popular Mass Effect romance by quite a bit. Check your facts please.

[Ashira Shepard]

I've been away from here two years, but from what I recall the characters who had the most er...enthusiastically vocal fans were Liara and Tali, at least where female mass effect characters were concerned.

 

And I think you're missing all the people who loathed Zevran because his presence and attitude disturbed their manly insecurities. He was not unanimously loved.

 

Anyway.

 

There are merits to Liara's character, I do like her character, it's just that she's a walking example of favouritism gone wrong and there are some individuals who focus their distaste for her handling towards her as a character and end up using gendered slurs. Which is distasteful by itself really...

 

It's not surprising some people really enjoyed Javik's treatment of her but there was an unsettling degree of glee to it more often than not.

 

Side Note: Liara is young for Asari, being 106 years old, but she's 106 years old in our years iirc. Morinth ran away at 40 years old and survived out in the galaxy by herself for the next 400 years. So Asari younger than her been very capable. Experiences can end up changing a person drastically, depending on what they entailed, the severity of them etc. So her being able to do stuff didn't bother me too much.

 

It was her sacrificing the SB ship and moving onto the Normandy to be SB from there that puzzled me...

 

"It was never meant to be space worthy" - how the hell did they even build it and move it there then??? I thought the planet was nothing but acid seas and lighting storms?

[Mordokai]

I've been away from here two years, but from what I recall the characters who had the most er...enthusiastically vocal fans were Liara and Tali, at least where female mass effect characters were concerned.

 

Never been a big fan of Tali or quarians in general. I don't hate any of them, but I certainly don't extend the love much of the fanbase seems to do.

 

With that in mind, I find it funny that Talimancers earned their own entry in Urban Dictionary. I have yet to see a similar entry for Liaramancers.

 

*measures the time until a spiteful fan makes such an entry*

 

Any takers?

[themikefest]

Zevran was unanimously loved? What? David Gaider said Leliana was the most popular Origins romance by quite a bit (probably the reason why they brought her back), just like Liara is the most popular Mass Effect romance by quite a bit. Check your facts please.

How popular of a romance would she be if she was only available for femshep?

How popular of a romance would she be if every LI was available in all 3 games like she is?

[Mordokai]

How popular of a romance would she be if she was only available for femshep?

 

Pretty much the same, since she does seem to be more popular with FemShep anyway.

 

How popular of a romance would she be if every LI was available in all 3 games like she is?

 

Likely less so.

 

Luckily, that is not the case

[Xilizhra]

The what-the-crap hug took place before Shepard knew T'soni gave the body to Cerberus. My Shepard wanted to throw her back in the volcano on Therum and now, after being dead for 2 years, gets a hug from someone she doesn't care about. I have no say in the hug. After that hug, I had femshep go back to the ship, have her armor incinerated, took a shower and got a tetanus shot from Dr.Chakwas.

You know, I once founded an Asari Sexual Harassment Support Clinic for the sake of all those poor souls whose avatars were ravished by hugs and/or shoulder brushes from the galaxy's blue ******-demons. Perhaps I should open it again on this forum, it seems as though people need it.

[themikefest]

Pretty much the same, since she does seem to be more popular with FemShep anyway.

 

Since a lot less people play as femshep she would not be as popular as Miranda, Tali or maybe even Garrus.

[LadyJaneGrey]

I don't hate her, but I did find the buddy-buddy forced banter in Lair of the Shadow Broker didn't work with all my Shepards.  My first Shepard through did like Liara and even then I thought "this won't work for all the previous relationship choices they've allowed."

[Xilizhra]

I should care why?

You tell me. I'm not the one going insane over being hugged.

 

 

I've been away from here two years, but from what I recall the characters who had the most er...enthusiastically vocal fans were Liara and Tali, at least where female mass effect characters were concerned.

 

And I think you're missing all the people who loathed Zevran because his presence and attitude disturbed their manly insecurities. He was not unanimously loved.

 

Anyway.

 

There are merits to Liara's character, I do like her character, it's just that she's a walking example of favouritism gone wrong and there are some individuals who focus their distaste for her handling towards her as a character and end up using gendered slurs. Which is distasteful by itself really...

 

It's not surprising some people really enjoyed Javik's treatment of her but there was an unsettling degree of glee to it more often than not.

 

Side Note: Liara is young for Asari, being 106 years old, but she's 106 years old in our years iirc. Morinth ran away at 40 years old and survived out in the galaxy by herself for the next 400 years. So Asari younger than her been very capable. Experiences can end up changing a person drastically, depending on what they entailed, the severity of them etc. So her being able to do stuff didn't bother me too much.

 

It was her sacrificing the SB ship and moving onto the Normandy to be SB from there that puzzled me...

 

"It was never meant to be space worthy" - how the hell did they even build it and move it there then??? I thought the planet was nothing but acid seas and lighting storms?

The ship was powered by lightning. I suspect it was assembled in orbit and then dropped down into the atmosphere.

 

As for Javik... eh, he's just an obnoxious troll who's probably bitter about asari policy not dooming the galaxy in the same way that Prothean policy did (by homogenizing everything in such a way that the Reapers found it painfully easy to adapt to their tactics).

[Mordokai]

Since a lot less people play as femshep she would not be as popular as Miranda, Tali or maybe even Garrus.

 

Surveys disagree with you, seeing she has more popularity than the three of them combined.

[Drone223]

Actually, he took over her character in number two if I'm not mistaken but I could be wrong

No he didn't, ME1 she was handled by Drew, ME2 it was Patrick Weekes and in ME3 it was Sylvia.

[KaiserShep]

I will say, that despite Liara being among my favorites of the cast of companions in the ME trilogy, it would've been better if there was variation in the way these companions treat you, but then, this is something that's apparent with every one of Shepard's companions. I don't know how easy (or difficult) it would be to carry over specific flags for each companion that determines how each character reacts to you based solely on your dialogue choices outside of romance. It worked somewhat with Wrex, because it was tied to Mordin's loyalty mission. While I generally make my PC's befriend all of the companion characters, I enjoy making that one douchebag guy that basically seems to get off on being a jerk to everyone to see their reactions. Unfortunately, Mass Effect is particularly rigid about this, and Dragon Age lends a great deal more freedom with its approval or friendship/rivalry system.

[themikefest]

Surveys disagree with you, seeing she has more popularity than the three of them combined.

That survey only shows her available for both genders. That's not what I was asking. Again, how popular would she of been had she only been available to only one gender especially only to femshep?

How popular would she be if all LI were available to both genders?

 

The other thing is how popular would she of been, as a squadmate, had she only been available for the 2nd half of the game like Kaidan/Ashley and Tali?

[Oni Changas]

 

You can't ressurect a body you don't have.

And you can't find said body without a determined hand leading the way.

[Mordokai]

That survey only shows her available for both genders. That's not what I was asking. Again, how popular would she of been had she only been available to only one gender especially only to femshep?

How popular would she be if all LI were available to both genders?

 

And what does it matter? She is available to both genders. Why deal with ifs? Or are you really that desperate to prove your point?

 

 

The other thing is how popular would she of been, as a squadmate, had she only been available for the 2nd half of the game like Kaidan/Ashley and Tali?

 

And I already admitted, likely less so, but luckily, that is not the case and we get her for the full duration of the game.

 

Or, in your case, sadly.

[themikefest]

You tell me. I'm not the one going insane over being hugged.

 

How does one not liking to be hugged by a character make someone insane? I don't care for it. If anything,  the player should've been given the choice to hug or not just like in the broker dlc after the shadow broker is killed.