Newton's third law. Maybe if people could cool their jets and stop blaming Liara for the Holocaust and the death of Tupac, everyone could relax a little.
Or we could blame her for the constant Mary Sue-ness, character shilling, and inconsistent writing. Say what you will about other characters, they were at least consistent.
Or we could blame her for the constant Mary Sue-ness, character shilling, and inconsistent writing. Say what you will about other characters, they were at least consistent.
Consistency is not a measurement of how well a character is written.
Consistency is a measurerement of how well a character compares to a robot.
Speaking of robots: you must love Legion.
You're acting like there's some arbitrary calculation that you can do and then the answer follows: bad character or good character. That's not how it works. Just look at this thread: some people love her character and have absolutely no problem with her character progression, for others it's the opposite.
Just admit that you hate her, stop trying to convince others they should as well because you are *right*
I don't get it, why can so many Liara fans not accept a single flaw in her writing?
And no, this isn't 'hate', you can like or even love a character and still admit that their writing is at least partially flawed. Stop thinking in extremes.
Maybe because many fans - and not only people who romance her - truly enjoy the character development that Liara is subjected to throughout the series? Maybe because many fans truly enjoy her romance? If you don't believe me then there's always polls to back it up. You don't like her? Great! We all have our individual tastes. That doesn't make you (or me) the ultimate authority on what constitutes a good character or flawed writing. For example, from what I have seen most people in the Dragon Age forums/Josephines fan thread were happy to hear that Liara's writer wrote Jospehine. Because her writing for Liara was objectively bad/nonsensical? Because Liara is a Mary Sue? I don't think so. And no, that doesn't mean we think Liara's arc is flawless. I have yet to meet one Liara fan who thinks that the lock in scene in Mass Effect 3 was well written. I also agree with MACharlie1, partially. I do think Liara being Shadow Broker was mishandled in Mass Effect 3.
And please, spare me the "Stop thinking in extremes" responses. You and a few other posters have been bashing every facet of the character, her fans base and the asari for over three weeks now, in this thread alone.
@MACharlie1: I only mentioned Tali because Oni No Shiro brought her up.
I don't think its hate, it has more to do with the fact that her character development is very inconsistent throughout the trilogy. She's spend most of her life studying the protheans in ME1 but in ME2 she becomes the best information broker in the galaxy in about two years with no past experience being a information broker what-so-ever.
She's one of the most prominent and respected information brokers on Illium (an asari colony that has the same population as Germany!) when we meet her in ME2, she is not the best information broker in the galaxy.
...which went rogue years ago?
...but is still largely sponsored by the Alliance military-industrial complex.
Consistency is not a measurement of how well a character is written.
Consistency is a measurerement of how well a character compares to a robot.
Speaking of robots: you must love Legion.
You're acting like there's some arbitrary calculation that you can do and then the answer follows: bad character or good character. That's not how it works. Just look at this thread: some people love her character and have absolutely no problem with her character progression, for others it's the opposite.
Just admit that you hate her, stop trying to convince others they should as well because you are *right*
If it's allright to blame the entire asari race for the failure of their leadership(which I openly admit is... less than ideal), then it's also ok to blame the entire humanity for the actions of Cerberus.
I could point to matriarchs defending Cyone, Cybaen, Nefrane, asari donating DA to the cause, Armali sniper unit and the rest of the units defending the cause. But I think it would be a wasted effort, since I just know certain people will start tooting the same old horn as always. The whole hiding the beacon thingie.
Apples to oranges my friend! Humans hate Cerberus as much as aliens do by the time ME3 rolls around. You never see asari actively saboutaging and fighting any splinter groups. Even then I'm not blaming their entire race, just Asari Toked Command.
Consistency is not a measurement of how well a character is written.
Consistency is a measurerement of how well a character compares to a robot.
Speaking of robots: you must love Legion.
You're acting like there's some arbitrary calculation that you can do and then the answer follows: bad character or good character. That's not how it works. Just look at this thread: some people love her character and have absolutely no problem with her character progression, for others it's the opposite.
Just admit that you hate her, stop trying to convince others they should as well because you are *right*
At least Legion has a moment of interesting dialogue...
Consistency is a measure of how well a character is written. Pacifists should not be screaming for bloody murder unless there is a damn good reason (and usually, said damn good reason is not good enough), vegetarians shouldn't be downing bacon cheeseburgers.
No, there isn't an arbitrary calculation for that, but you can tabulate the amount of things you like as opposed to the things you hate. Liara has more Mary Sue traits than anyone in this game, even Garrus or Shepard.
Liara is extremely inconsistent. Thus, she is a poorly written character. I've yet to see a Liaramancer who isn't a rabid fanboy.
@Asari_Party: She went from spending decades studying the protheans to becoming a professional information broker in a matter of two years with no experience or training being an information broker what-so-ever. In terms of character and story writing its very inconsistent and very unbelievable.
Or we could blame her for the constant Mary Sue-ness, character shilling, and inconsistent writing. Say what you will about other characters, they were at least consistent.
At least Legion has a moment of interesting dialogue...
Consistency is a measure of how well a character is written. Pacifists should not be screaming for bloody murder unless there is a damn good reason (and usually, said damn good reason is not good enough), vegetarians shouldn't be downing bacon cheeseburgers.
No, there isn't an arbitrary calculation for that, but you can tabulate the amount of things you like as opposed to the things you hate. Liara has more Mary Sue traits than anyone in this game, even Garrus or Shepard.
Liara is extremely inconsistent. Thus, she is a poorly written character. I've yet to see a Liaramancer who isn't a rabid fanboy.
I don't see how she's extremely inconsistent or more inconsistent than the other characters, and I'm not gonna bother explaining it again and again and again. Others have explained it multiple times in here. And I've yet to see a Liarahater who can properly respond to those posts anyway. They always end up in called the other person a rabid fanboy and then expect their non-existent points to be solidified into truths.
Say what you will about other characters, they were at least consistent.
Fascinating. People have made these exact same accusations against the characters of Wrex and Mordin, more so the latter, even more than Liara, due in no small part to his contribution to a major arc in the story. Legion is arguably considered to be the most inconsistent, because its actions, to many, totally alter the nature of the entire geth race. Whether or not it has some interesting dialogue doesn't really matter.At least Legion has a moment of interesting dialogue...
Consistency is a measure of how well a character is written. Pacifists should not be screaming for bloody murder unless there is a damn good reason (and usually, said damn good reason is not good enough), vegetarians shouldn't be downing bacon cheeseburgers.
No, there isn't an arbitrary calculation for that, but you can tabulate the amount of things you like as opposed to the things you hate. Liara has more Mary Sue traits than anyone in this game, even Garrus or Shepard.
Liara is extremely inconsistent. Thus, she is a poorly written character. I've yet to see a Liaramancer who isn't a rabid fanboy.
she's an anchor for Shepard. Male or Female, doesn't matter. Still can carry on the Shepard name. (I think Sheps "kid" may still show up in the next generation, er... iteration..
I'm actually going to go on a limb and propose Liara is not all that inconsistent.
One of her defining characteristics are her strong will. She is the only one of the three LIs in the first game that can't have her opinins changed. You can paragon Ashley, you can renegade Kaidan, but try as you might, you can't change Liara's worldview. This serves her well while retreiving Shepard's body, on her hunt for Shadow Broker and throughout the whole third game. She is quite consistent in that aspect.
She is also shown to be resorcefoul. She admits, in the first game, that her theories aren't given the credence they would deserve because of her youth. I imagine that traslates into less funding by university and sponsors. And yet, she often performs digs on remote worlds. How did she get there? Sure, she is a daughter of influental matriarch, but her own mother and she are estranged and I imagine Benezia isn't pitching in a lot for what she sees as a folly of youth. Liara probably had to get most of the funding for her expeditions alone and I imagine that's not cheap. If she wasn't resorcefoul, she wouldn't be doing as much hands-on approach as she does.
I imagine that served her well when setting a bussiness for information brokering. I believe she also admits archeology and information brokering aren't all that different? Just the matter of finding the right information. She is a smart gal(seriously, a doctor at 50? That's what, fresh out of asari equivalent of high school), after the death of her mother she probably came into inheritance, so money shouldn't be a problem. As for training... I find it hard to believe there is college to which prospective brokers enlist. So yeah, she isn't stretching anything too much.
And before people start screaming bloody headcanon... yes, it is, to certain extent. But nothing too unbeliveable and nothing in the game canon opposes it, at least as far as I recall.
To me, she is quite consistent.
I'm actually going to go on a limb and propose Liara is not all that inconsistent.
One of her defining characteristics are her strong will. She is the only one of the three LIs in the first game that can't have her opinins changed. You can paragon Ashley, you can renegade Kaidan, but try as you might, you can't change Liara's worldview. This serves her well while retreiving Shepard's body, on her hunt for Shadow Broker and throughout the whole third game. She is quite consistent in that aspect.
She is also shown to be resorcefoul. She admits, in the first game, that her theories aren't given the credence they would deserve because of her youth. I imagine that traslates into less funding by university and sponsors. And yet, she often performs digs on remote worlds. How did she get there? Sure, she is a daughter of influental matriarch, but her own mother and she are estranged and I imagine Benezia isn't pitching in a lot for what she sees as a folly of youth. Liara probably had to get most of the funding for her expeditions alone and I imagine that's not cheap. If she wasn't resorcefoul, she wouldn't be doing as much hands-on approach as she does.
I imagine that served her well when setting a bussiness for information brokering. I believe she also admits archeology and information brokering aren't all that different? Just the matter of finding the right information. She is a smart gal(seriously, a doctor at 50? That's what, fresh out of asari equivalent of high school), after the death of her mother she probably came into inheritance, so money shouldn't be a problem. As for training... I find it hard to believe there is college to which prospective brokers enlist. So yeah, she isn't stretching anything too much.
And before people start screaming bloody headcanon... yes, it is, to certain extent. But nothing too unbeliveable and nothing in the game canon opposes it, at least as far as I recall.
To me, she is quite consistent.
I've never read the comic that involves her, and I don't really care to, but within the games themselves, the only really significant jump I've seen was between ME1 and 2, but I shouldn't really expect a character to be exactly as they were 2 years prior. In ME2, her motivation only veered off course for sake of saving a friend, but beyond that, much of what her character was about remained unchanged. In any case, "consistency" is kind of a weird thing about ME's companions, because ME1 didn't really have a showcase of big personalities. I think that Wrex and Ashley were the only characters in ME1 to really have a memorable personality about them.
actually, the only thing you can really do with Liara is either join her or not..lol That's what folks is upset with I'd guess, kind of demanding in the game. She actually pouts... (she's not really a she tho..)
lot of head room there, but is very demanding to address all issues regarding "personality". Shep was kind of a bird brain..lol.
Her background doesn't support the character. She has no training at all in combat. She's made the shadow broker with very little experience. She has mental issues as seen by her displaying Shepard's armor like some kind of trophy. She likes the word friend for some reason when my femshep has no use for her or even cares about her.
I have no combat training either but I whooped them reapers!! (she read Sheps mind for that cypher gizmo?)
Her background doesn't support the character.
She has no training at all in combat.
She's made the shadow broker with very little experience.
She has mental issues as seen by her displaying Shepard's armor like some kind of trophy.
She likes the word friend for some reason when my femshep has no use for her or even cares about her.
Her background doesn't support the character. She has no training at all in combat. She's made the shadow broker with very little experience. She has mental issues as seen by her displaying Shepard's armor like some kind of trophy. She likes the word friend for some reason when my femshep has no use for her or even cares about her.
Seems unlikely to me that a powerful Matriarch's daughter would have no combat training at all. I know she had no weapons training on her skills but that pretty much is in line with her in gameplay since she seems to spend more time shooting walls or Shepard's back than actually hitting any enemies (okay that's everyone in ME1 not just Liara). I figured Liara's combat training had just been geared more to her biotics and that she had a natural talent for it as well.
As for her having mental issues, that's a bit harsh. I mean who hasn't occasionally got a bit obsessed with someone and made a shrine out of some of their clothing and maybe a bit of their hair? >_> 
Liara is like a blue Merrill and I think similarly lots of people dislike her too. They are easily two of my favourite characters but there you go, it'd be boring if we were all the same.
I think the reason people hate Liara is probably because she's quite a prominent character. I personally think she's fab but for people who don't its probably annoying to see her get so much screen time when other characters get left out. So then I think people start to hate Liara when they probably would have only disliked her before.
Oh, you rabid fanboy.
Yeah, watch it. I've been bitten* by a wild asari and transform into one every full moon, going around, bitting* people and transfering my curse further.
It's actually pretty awesome 
*replace bite with mate
For the millionth time: the story demands you are friends. If you don't like this, hate Bioware.
I've got a wall for you against which you can bang your head. It will be about as effective.
About as pleasureable too.
You got... mated by a wild asari?
I've got a wall for you against which you can bang your head. It will be about as effective.
About as pleasureable too.
Yeah, I've got no idea why I still come in this topic. We've been going in 5 page circles for a while now.
Bull. Archealogy is all about gathering information, organizing it and drawing conclusions from the data you have. That's not much different from what the Shadow Broker does.
Studying Protheans has nothing to do with been an information broker. Would that meam an information broker can be a Prothean expert?
Doesn't matter when you drop singularities and stasi like they're candy.
It does matter that she doesn't have training. Singularities don't work on shields. And had she had any training in combat she would've shot at Kai Leng instead standing like a dumba** and then fly Kai Leng airlines. Ashley/Kaidan didn't hesitate when shooting Eva, of course they were seriouly injured
Is there an application precedure for SB? Do you need qualifications?
And how about that Yahg? Super experienced, amirite?
The only thing you need to do to become the SB is be at the right place when the current SB dies: his room, preferably doing the killing. That's it. That's how the Yahg got that position, that's how Liara got it.
So your saying anyone can be the shadow broker? I wonder how well Conrad would've done as the shadow broker?
There's nothing mental about that.
Yes it is. Taking armor from a dead body and displying it is more than an obsession. Its too bad we can't ask her why she has it?
For the millionth time: the story demands you are friends. If you don't like this, hate Bioware.
I hate Bioware for doing that and I will continue to hate the character
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