1180 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordokai]

You got... mated by a wild asari?

 

 

 

They are the wild spirits, running free, sometimes choosing lucky mortals to grant a night of pleasure to. Unfortunately, the power hidden within them more often than not render the recepient crazy and unable of proper reasoning.

 

Thusly, rabid fanboys and Liaramancers are born.

 

Yeah, I've got no idea why I still come in this topic. We've been going in 5 page circles for a while now.

 

Don't know about you, but me... I'm just enjoying seeing all the hatred for Liara and bad reasons squashed under the arguments of people smarter than me.

 

It gives me some hope for humanity.

[themikefest]

 

As for her having mental issues, that's a bit harsh. I mean who hasn't occasionally got a bit obsessed with someone and made a shrine out of some of their clothing and maybe a bit of their hair? >_>

 

I haven't.

 

So you know people that have made a shrine with the person's clothing and the person's hair?

 

 

 

Liara is like a blue Merrill and I think similarly lots of people dislike her too. They are easily two of my favourite characters but there you go, it'd be boring if we were all the same.

 

You're right about that. I don't like Merrill. More because she went and got a demon's help for the mirror

[themikefest]

 

Don't know about you, but me... I'm just enjoying seeing all the hatred for Liara and bad reasons squashed under the arguments of people smarter than me.

 

It gives me some hope for humanity.

Don't know about you, but its fun watching T'soni fans not being able to accept that the character has flaws.

[Farangbaa]

Studying Protheans has nothing to do with been an information broker. Would that meam an information broker can be a Prothean expert?

That's not what I said. Try again.
 

It does matter that she doesn't have training. Singularities don't work on shields. And had she had any training in combat she would've shot at Kai Leng instead standing like a dumba** and then fly Kai Leng airlines. Ashley/Kaidan didn't hesitate when shooting Eva, of course they were seriouly injured

Oh you mean like Thane, who forgets to pull the trigger on Kai Leng because it looked cool/stylish? Trained Assassin, ya know?
 

So your saying anyone can be the shadow broker? I wonder how well Conrad would've done as the shadow broker?

Nope. You'd have to be able to get onto the Shadow Broker's ship. Conrad has no idea where it is.

Yes it is. Taking armor from a dead body and displying it is more than an obsession. Its too bad we can't ask her why she has it?

No it's not. Besides, no one knows if she took it from Shep's body. Miranda could've done so just as well.

[Zazzerka]

Don't know about you, but its fun watching T'soni fans not being able to accept that the character has flaws.

 

Oh, how it keeps me awake at night. I lay there with tears in my eyes: "Why did she take the armour? Why?"

[Sir DeLoria]

Is there an application precedure for SB? Do you need qualifications?And how about that Yahg? Super experienced, amirite?The only thing you need to do to become the SB is be at the right place when the current SB dies: his room, preferably doing the killing. That's it. That's how the Yahg got that position, that's how Liara got it.

That really discredits Liara, I'm glad we agree that she is completely ordinary and her position of Shadow Broker obtained merely through connections and luck.

There's nothing mental about that.

So, imagine you die(very, very violently) and a friend(or not) of yours decides to strip off your charred clothing and proudly display it in a vitrine.

Yep, nothing mental about that, toootally normal...

Maybe because many fans - and not only people who romance her - truly enjoy the character development that Liara is subjected to throughout the series? Maybe because many fans truly enjoy her romance?

And no, that doesn't mean we think Liara's arc is flawless. I have yet to meet one Liara fan who thinks that the lock in scene in Mass Effect 3 was well written. I also agree with MACharlie1, partially. I do think Liara being Shadow Broker was mishandled in Mass Effect 3.

I guess you didn't read my comment, because those two parts of your comment contradict each other. In the first part you explain why some Liara fans fail to admit her writing has any flaws, in the second you claim no one thinks her writing is flawless. What?

And please, spare me the "Stop thinking in extremes" responses. You and a few other posters have been bashing every facet of the character, her fans base and the asari for over three weeks now, in this thread alone.

Haha, when did I bash her fanbase? Or the Asari as a whole? Or every facet of Liara's character?

I made critical remarks against aspects of her character and the Asari government, same goes for the majority of her critics here. You're just being oversensitive.

[Farangbaa]

That really discredits Liara, I'm glad we agree that she is completely ordinary and her position of Shadow Broker obtained merely through connections and luck.

No it doesn't. Not everybody can set foot on the Shadow Broker ship, let alone get so far in it that they can access the SB's office and kill him.

But if you are in a position to do so, becoming the SB is nothing more than saying the right things at the right time after you kill him.

(if you don't have LotSB Liara gets on the ship all by herself btw, without the help of God Shepard and his Divine Powers.)

So, imagine you die(very, very violently) and a friend(or not) of yours decides to strip off your charred clothing and proudly display it in a vitrine.

Yep, nothing mental about that, toootally normal...

I'd be glad about it, and a little surprised. I've done nothing even remotely heroic enough to warrant such actions.
Shepard saved Liara, and then went on to defeat Saren/Sovereign and save the Citadel.

[themikefest]

Oh you mean like Thane, who forgets to pull the trigger on Kai Leng because it looked cool/stylish? Trained Assassin, ya know?
 

I agree about Thane. Why don't you create a thread about that. This is a thread about Liara.

 

 

 No it's not. Besides, no one knows if she took it from Shep's body. Miranda could've done so just as well.

Yes it is. And when people see the armor in her apartment, they would most likely conclude she took it from the body unless she states otherwise

[Sir DeLoria]

No it doesn't. Not everybody can set foot on the Shadow Broker ship, let alone get so far in it that they can access the SB's office and kill him.

Shepard did that for the most part.

But if you are in a position to do so, becoming the SB is nothing more than saying the right things at the right time after you kill him.

Yep, why is Liara special again?

(if you don't have LotSB Liara gets on the ship all by herself btw, without the help of God Shepard and his Divine Powers.)

By herself? Uhm, she had to hire half a regiment of mercs to do the job for her (she tells you in ME3 if you didn't help her).

I'd be glad about it, and a little surprised. I've done nothing even remotely heroic enough to warrant such actions. Shepard saved Liara, and then went on to defeat Saren/Sovereign and save the Citadel.

Not everyone would feel that way. There is also a huge difference between publicly displaying the attire of a war hero as a memorial and keeping it locked away in a private apartment(for whatever creepy reason).

Funny also how she doesn't give you your dogtags back unless you invite her up to your cabin. No matter how often you visit her at work.

[DuskWanderer]

Bull. Archealogy is all about gathering information, organizing it and drawing conclusions from the data you have. That's not much different from what the Shadow Broker does.


Doesn't matter when you drop singularities and stasi like they're candy.


Is there an application precedure for SB? Do you need qualifications?
And how about that Yahg? Super experienced, amirite?

The only thing you need to do to become the SB is be at the right place when the current SB dies: his room, preferably doing the killing. That's it. That's how the Yahg got that position, that's how Liara got it.


There's nothing mental about that.


For the millionth time: the story demands you are friends. If you don't like this, hate Bioware.

Archeaology is about determining how a culture acted. You gather information about trash heaps, burials, and whatnot, not data like the Shadow Broker.

 

So can any biotic, it's a gameplay affect, not a plot one.

 

There are no mental issues about field-stripping a corpse and enshrining their burned broken armor in their apartment like it's a personal trophy. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. </sarcasm>

 

The story doesn't demand you are friends. Show me one instance in which <B>Shepard</b> is forced to be <B>Liara's</b> friend and say oh-so-nice things to her. The only people that happens to is the Mary Sue.

[DuskWanderer]

As for the armor, it's not in a museum, it's not for people to look at and remember Shepard. Liara keeps it in her apartment, away from everyone else's eyes. The thought that Miranda could have given it to her has literally zero facts backing it up, and it wouldn't even matter if it was true: Getting Shepard's armor is minor, it's enshrining it in her apartment like it's her own personal battle trophy.

 

Face it, the girl is nuts. The fact that she does this regardless of your relationship status with her ultimately proves the point, it shows us how obsessed and mentally unbalanced she is.

 

 

An it's all 100% true about Liara and the asari. Liaramancers just can't take criticism of their waifu. They need to take a deep breath and remember she's fake. We are allowed to criticize characters in stories: I do that twice a week in a writer's group.

[Farangbaa]

The story doesn't demand you are friends. Show me one instance in which <B>Shepard</b> is forced to be <B>Liara's</b> friend and say oh-so-nice things to her. The only people that happens to is the Mary Sue.

You gotta be joking me. Page after page after page of whining your ass off about a damned hug, and now they're suddenly not friends.

You just like to argue, don't you?

[Farangbaa]

Archeaology is about determining how a culture acted. You gather information about trash heaps, burials, and whatnot, not data like the Shadow Broker.

Handling the SB's data is argueably easier than handling archealogical data. SB's data is just letters and numbers, archealogical ones you actually have to do some digging.
 

So can any biotic, it's a gameplay affect, not a plot one.

No they can't, not gameplay wise, not plot wise. Jack never lays a singularity, ever. Not in cutscenes, not in gameplay.
 

There are no mental issues about field-stripping a corpse and enshrining their burned broken armor in their apartment like it's a personal trophy. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. </sarcasm>

Nope. The field stripping is head canon anyway.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I haven't.

 

So you know people that have made a shrine with the person's clothing and the person's hair?

 

 

Er no I was just kidding about that. I fear that little smiley popped up without my permission and gave my comment a different tone than I intended. See this is probably why I like Liara and Merrill, because I can relate to saying stupid things. Merrill particularly I think is often being sarcastic in banters when people just think she's being thick. I think its the Welsh accent, it confuses people.

 

 

But back to Liara, yeah her transformation from archaeologist to Shadow Broker is a little unbelievable but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.  

[Farangbaa]

-

[Farangbaa]

An it's all 100% true about Liara and the asari. Liaramancers just can't take criticism of their waifu. They need to take a deep breath and remember she's fake. We are allowed to criticize characters in stories: I do that twice a week in a writer's group.

Yes you are, just like I am allowed to disagree with your opinion without being painted off as a moron who's in love with a videogame character.

[DuskWanderer]

You gotta be joking me. Page after page after page of whining your ass off about a damned hug, and now they're suddenly not friends.

You just like to argue, don't you?

 

You've missed the point. That hug is in no way relevant to the plot of the game. You don't need to hug, be nice, or literally do anything to Liara in order to make the plot work. So why is it done? Why are we forced to have the waifu? That was the question: Why is it important to the story that Shep and Liara are friends? It's not, so there's no reason to make it that way.

[Farangbaa]

Shepard did that for the most part.

Not if you don't have LotSB.
 

Yep, why is Liara special again?

How many people set foot on the SB's ship, stepped into his office and lived?
 

By herself? Uhm, she had to hire half a regiment of mercs to do the job for her (she tells you in ME3 if you didn't help her).

She still does it without Shepard, which is what I meant with by herself.
 

Not everyone would feel that way. There is also a huge difference between publicly displaying the attire of a war hero as a memorial and keeping it locked away in a private apartment(for whatever creepy reason).

I just don't agree with this, at all. I see zero difference between the two things.
 

Funny also how she doesn't give you your dogtags back unless you invite her up to your cabin. No matter how often you visit her at work.

Yes it is.


f'ing BB code

[Farangbaa]

You've missed the point. That hug is in no way relevant to the plot of the game. You don't need to hug, be nice, or literally do anything to Liara in order to make the plot work. So why is it done? Why are we forced to have the waifu? That was the question: Why is it important to the story that Shep and Liara are friends? It's not, so there's no reason to make it that way.

It's done because they are friends, it's how the story shows you they are.

English is not my native language, bear with me.

[DuskWanderer]

Handling the SB's data is argueably easier than handling archealogical data. SB's data is just letters and numbers, archealogical ones you actually have to do some digging.
 

No they can't, not gameplay wise, not plot wise. Jack never lays a singularity, ever. Not in cutscenes, not in gameplay.
 

Nope. The field stripping is head canon anyway.

Unless you actually know what you're doing with that data, all you have is a bunch of files. Where's Liara's massive experience in handling sensitive information?

 

You're sitll confusing gameplay and plot. Where does it expressly state that Jack can't do Singularities, that she is incapable of doing them? The fact that she doesn't is solely gameplay reasons.

 

That armor is admitted to be Shepard's, and the only damaged armor we ever see is the one he was spaced in. How do you propose she got it off his body. And you're also ignoring that she's enshrined it in her apartment. That's not the actions of a hero-worshipper (they would donate it to a museum or build a public thing that others who benefitted from Shepard could share in it). This was a zealously guarded treasure.

[DuskWanderer]

It's done because they are friends, it's how the story shows you they are.

English is not my native language, bear with me.

 

You're not understanding. If the language is a barrier, perhaps I shall rephrase.

 

The overarching plotline of Mass Effect is Shepard's story. Liara is a character in this story, but in no way is Shepard required to be Liara's friend. In the first game, you do not have to say a single kind word to her, you can leave her for the second-to-last mission, and completely ignore her the rest of the time.

 

Why, after his death, is Shepard treating Liara as his friend, when that was their interaction before?

 

Nothing done in the story requires Shepard to be Liara's friend outside of work. Therefore, the hug is a pointless interaction designed to cement a fake relationship that is unnecessary to begin with. It was not needed, the story would have worked if the two were 100% professional.

[Farangbaa]

Unless you actually know what you're doing with that data, all you have is a bunch of files. Where's Liara's massive experience in handling sensitive information?

Why would she need massive experience?

Where was the Yahg's? Yep, he worked for the SB for a while. Liara was information broker on Illium.

You're sitll confusing gameplay and plot. Where does it expressly state that Jack can't do Singularities, that she is incapable of doing them? The fact that she doesn't is solely gameplay reasons.

Where does it say anyone can do them?

That armor is admitted to be Shepard's, and the only damaged armor we ever see is the one he was spaced in. How do you propose she got it off his body. And you're also ignoring that she's enshrined it in her apartment. That's not the actions of a hero-worshipper (they would donate it to a museum or build a public thing that others who benefitted from Shepard could share in it). This was a zealously guarded treasure.

I've said many times before these two things (at someone's appartment or in a museum) make zero difference to me. At best the person keeping it in her/his appartment is selfish.

[SNascimento]

The important thing is that there is a lesson to be learned here for the next Mass Effect games if they're going to have a similar save import feature.

Liara's failures as a character stem from a lack of planning/experience from Bioware in making the trilogy. Something understandable considering the scope and of the project. I see it this way: Liara being forced on us is a consequence of her being forced on the developers. From the ME1 crew she was the only LI that would survive no matter what. So obviously they had to use her. Obviously she would need to be a centerpiece in their future planning even it made no sense for the character. 

So looking back, I don't think it was a preference. It was simple a lack of options. And then it's only natural you will put more work on the stuff that you know will be in the game. 

Therefore it's important that Bioware learned this lessons from the trilogy so they can better handle characters in the next trilogy and make a more cohosive story that is guided by reason. 

[themikefest]

Why would Bioware give you the option to hug T'soni after killing the broker and not give one when you first see her on Illium or if you decide to bring her up to the Normandy and you hug her again before she leaves?

[von uber]

Regards armour, how did Legion get it's bit?

Oh yeah, that's excused through rule of cool isn't it. Liara is creepy, Legion handwaved. That's double standards, at least be consistent.