Why would Bioware give you the option to hug T'soni after killing the broker and not give one when you first see her on Illium or if you decide to bring her up to the Normandy and you hug her again before she leaves?
@Asari_Party: She went from spending decades studying the protheans to becoming a professional information broker in a matter of two years with no experience or training being an information broker what-so-ever. In terms of character and story writing its very inconsistent and very unbelievable.
The most important aspect of her business is in contacting other Info Brokers to buy/sell/trade information. In addition, Liara would sell information to clients coming in off the streets who are not in the biz. What kind of training did you want to see? I suppose you would have to have some juicy info to sell to another broker or use in exchange for another piece of juicy info, but it is safe to assume that Liara did keep a copy of the SB's data cache she found in Redemption, that may explain how she ammassed a sizable pool of credits in order to kick off her business successfully. She might have inherit alot of money and other resources after Benezia died too. She then had two years to build a network so I think that's enough time to warrant her position as a successful local broker by the time Shepard comes across her.
I guess you didn't read my comment, because those two parts of your comment contradict each other. In the first part you explain why some Liara fans fail to admit her writing has any flaws, in the second you claim no one thinks her writing is flawless. What?
Haha, when did I bash her fanbase? Or the Asari as a whole? Or every facet of Liara's character?
I made critical remarks against aspects of her character and the Asari government, same goes for the majority of her critics here. You're just being oversensitive.
The point is that many/most fans like the general direction Bioware took Liara's character (or she wouldn't be that popular), but that doesn't necessarily mean that the overwhelming majority of her fans thinks that every single line of dialogue was well written. And that was your accusation. That we can't accept a "single flaw".
Right, because Liara fans = rabid fanboys/girls in not bashing. I didn't read the whole thread and two posters here are on my ignore list, but on the last pages I have seen complaints about her gameplay usefulness, her background, her character development, her voice acting, Liara helping Cerberus revive Shepard, Liara being devastated that her homeworld is invaded, asari generally being worthless bimbos - did I forget anything?
I agree about Legion. And reading from the writer of Legion on his blog, said that someone with a higher paycheck thought it would be cool to have N7 armor on Legion. At least we can ask how it acquired the armor.
Which is also stupid. Just because one person makes a ridiculous change doesn't mean it makes another person's change any less ridiculous. Sort of like just because we criticize Asari high command doesn't mean we like Shepard's autodialogue terracentrism any better.It's no more contrived than murderer / sociopath to teacher in 6 months.
Why would she need massive experience?
Where was the Yahg's? Yep, he worked for the SB for a while. Liara was information broker on Illium.
Where does it say anyone can do them?
I've said many times before these two things (at someone's appartment or in a museum) make zero difference to me. At best the person keeping it in her/his appartment is selfish.
If you want to do something well, it tends to help to have experience. Liara has no experience with all of the Shadow Broker stuff.
The Yahg's mental adaptability as a race put him above Liara. It's an utterly pathetic excuse of a character, but that's what they gave us. The Codex states that yahg are infinitely more adaptable.
Given the training logs on Grissom mention the ability to do both Shockwaves and Singularities, that tells us something
You might not think it makes a difference, but a lot of the rest of the group says so.
Why would Bioware give you the option to hug T'soni after killing the broker and not give one when you first see her on Illium or if you decide to bring her up to the Normandy and you hug her again before she leaves?
Which is also stupid. Just because one person makes a ridiculous change doesn't mean it makes another person's change any less ridiculous. Sort of like just because we criticize Asari high command doesn't mean we like Shepard's autodialogue terracentrism any better.
If you want to do something well, it tends to help to have experience. Liara has no experience with all of the Shadow Broker stuff.
Except for being an information broker for almost 2 years.
The Yahg's mental adaptability as a race put him above Liara. It's an utterly pathetic excuse of a character, but that's what they gave us. The Codex states that yahg are infinitely more adaptable.
Weren't you the one who explicitly said the codex didn't matter, only what we see in the game?
No, you weren't.
Given the training logs on Grissom mention the ability to do both Shockwaves and Singularities, that tells us something
Yeah, it tells use the students at Grissom Academy should be able to do it. Nothing more, nothing less.
You might not think it makes a difference, but a lot of the rest of the group says so.
Yep, doesn't change one bit about my opinion.
Unfortunately, the problem
The most important aspect of her business is in contacting other Info Brokers to buy/sell/trade information. In addition, Liara would sell information to clients coming in off the streets who are not in the biz. What kind of training did you want to see? I suppose you would have to have some juicy info to sell to another broker or use in exchange for another piece of juicy info, but it is safe to assume that Liara did keep a copy of the SB's data cache she found in Redemption, that may explain how she ammassed a sizable pool of credits in order to kick off her business successfully. She might have inherit alot of money and other resources after Benezia died too. She then had two years to build a network so I think that's enough time to warrant her position as a successful local broker by the time Shepard comes across her.
The point is that many/most fans like the general direction Bioware took Liara's character (or she wouldn't be that popular), but that doesn't necessarily mean that the overwhelming majority of her fans thinks that every single line of dialogue was well written. And that was your accusation. That we can't accept a "single flaw".
Right, because Liara fans = rabid fanboys/girls in not bashing. I didn't read the whole thread and two posters here are on my ignore list, but on the last pages I have seen complaints about her gameplay usefulness, her background, her character development, her voice acting, Liara helping Cerberus revive Shepard, Liara being devastated that her homeworld is invaded, asari generally being worthless bimbos - did I forget anything?
Businesses like the information business are notoriously dangerous, given that your basic client is cutthroat enough to murder his competition and silence anyone who knows too much (we see this with Nassana Danteius). You need to be very good at reading people, have good instincts about clients, and have enough security to defend yourself from tying up any loose ends. As far as we can see, Liara's had none of this before ME1, and two years, particularly to an asari who, by the Codex, share a long view on things and do not rush, isn't a long time to them.
Most people I've seen who praise aspects of her character revolve around fanservice, not because of aspects of her personality.
I'm sure there's something else out there for someone to complain about: People can complain about everything. The rabid fanboy aspect comes from the fact that Liaramancers can't accept a flaw when it's pointed out, or that they cattishly say things like "Garrus/Jack/whoever does it too!" Reminds me of political debates between George W. Bush and Barack Obama, pick whichever side.
Except for being an information broker for almost 2 years.
Weren't you the one who explicitly said the codex didn't matter, only what we see in the game?
Yeah, it tells use the students at Grissom Academy should be able to do it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yep, doesn't change one bit about my opinion.
2 years is not a long time, considering the average asari brags about having done things since before humanity came to the galaxy, or (as that racist one said) since humans were burning witches at the stake. Hardly extraordinary. Even Shepard was a soldier for years.
No, I never said the codex doesn't matter. Not even once.
Now you're reaching when it comes to your point. You've got nothing further to argue, be it the Grissom Academy, or the armor. It is odd to put someone's armor on display in your apartment when you barely know them. If a student is being taught how to use different biotic techniques, it stands to reason the teacher knows how to do the same thing.
Which is also stupid. Just because one person makes a ridiculous change doesn't mean it makes another person's change any less ridiculous. Sort of like just because we criticize Asari high command doesn't mean we like Shepard's autodialogue terracentrism any better.
You've seen the threads I've started on THAT topic... you might be interested in the "peace without code" writeup I did.Obviously this is Liara's fault and a reason for hate.
Yep, but the point here is that people keep insisting that Liara is the most inconsistent character, which is clearly not the case.Legion going from 'we don't wanna be like organics' to 'we wanna be like organics' is much more inconsistent. But hey, he's a robot. They're not known for their consistency.Oh wait..
Obviously this is Liara's fault and a reason for hate.
Jumping to conclusions again. I asked why Bioware gave an option to hug her in one scene, but not in the others?
2 years is not a long time, considering the average asari brags about having done things since before humanity came to the galaxy, or (as that racist one said) since humans were burning witches at the stake. Hardly extraordinary. Even Shepard was a soldier for years.
No, I never said the codex doesn't matter. Not even once.
Now you're reaching when it comes to your point. You've got nothing further to argue, be it the Grissom Academy, or the armor. It is odd to put someone's armor on display in your apartment when you barely know them. If a student is being taught how to use different biotic techniques, it stands to reason the teacher knows how to do the same thing.
Long age span =/= slower learner.
I corrected before you could post
Grissom Academy houses the most gifted, talented human biotics. That they, or their teachers can do it, means nothing for everybody else in the universe. That's like going to a gymnast academy in China (you know, where they take talented kids when they're like 4 years old), seeing these kids can do double summersault from a stand, and claiming every Chinese person can do this.
And YOU find it odd. Other find it odd. I don't.
You know what that's called? An opinion.
Again, two years is not a long time, although long-aged creatures do take things slower. Remember, Morinth is considered a child at the age of forty, Liara is a graduate student and she's over a hundred. That's not even the length of an undergraduate degree.
Glad you caught that. Mistakes happen, glad you could own up to it.
Uhh...I don't understand your statement. You were talking about Jack not being able to do Singularities in cutscenes typifying that she is unable to do them personally. My statement is refuting that. I'm not talking about human biotics at large.
I'd think it more likely that the Citadel Council would crash Benezia's accounts due to her association with a terrorist, though it's possible Liara would inherit her money provided it wasn't tied up in legal red tape for years to come.
In any case, part of why her transition to her new ME2 role comes across as contrived is because she's specifically depicted as naive and socially isolated to the point of barely being able to navigate a conversation in ME1 - suddenly she's supposed to be socially savvy enough to survive, let alone excel, in the world of professional espionage? Going from having her nose stuck in a book at an isolated dig site to networking, making and maintaining contacts? Knowing who to trust, who to pay off, who to cut loose, who to kill, how to garner and maintain loyalty? No transition is depicted save for her doing a wiki-walk to learn Shepard's backstory.
The council left Shiala alone. I doubt they really care about Benezia's money or estates.
Liara is no spy, Liara is an information broker. She buys and sells info. Maybe she even made some bad business decisions in the beginning, we don't know this. I guess you can headcanon whatever you want here. I don't think she would have any contacts herself either. Benezia was probably one of the most powerful/influential asari in the galaxy, so Benezia connections would be my guess. But as mentioned above, remember that when we meet her she is a big fish in a small pond compared to the Shadow Broker or TIM who are big fish in the Ocean that makes up ME's universe. Two years should be more than enough for that, considering all circumstances (SB data, benezia's money, member of Shepards team). And this is a lot more believable than Tali's or Jack's new jobs, at least in my opinion. I agree that Bioware could have given us more info on how Liara started her business. But even Wrex became king of the krogan without a detailed explanation.
I never saw Liara as naive in general. She gets nervous around Shepard. But look at how she speaks with other characters like Ashley, Kaidan, Wrex or Allestia Iallis, she was definitely not "naive" or "meek".
Shiala is not a matriarch, nor do we see that she has "assets" of any kind. For all they know, she died on Feros. She self-admits she doesn't draw attention.
Sorry, but your information just doesn't cut it. TIM takes far longer than 2 years to build Cerberus, and the Shadow Broker was even longer. Liara also doesn't have the SB data for 2 years, she has it for 6 months, certainly not enough time.
Tali's job is more believable than Liara's: Tali was given the position largely as a matter of ceremony, and because she has more experience with geth due to the first and second games. Jack's I agree is pretty lousy, and Wrex's is just plain stupid.
Liara admits to being meek and naive in conversation with Shepard in ME3. That's fact, sorry.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
I have no idea I always liked her
Sure she could get on your nerves in 3 because she was shoved in our faces
But apart from that she was one of the most unique characters of ME
Regards armour, how did Legion get it's bit?
Oh yeah, that's excused through rule of cool isn't it. Liara is creepy, Legion handwaved. That's double standards, at least be consistent.
The point is that many/most fans like the general direction Bioware took Liara's character (or she wouldn't be that popular), but that doesn't necessarily mean that the overwhelming majority of her fans thinks that every single line of dialogue was well written. And that was your accusation. That we can't accept a "single flaw".
Who said that? Did I? Nope.Right, because Liara fans = rabid fanboys/girls is not bashing.
I didn't read the whole thread and two posters here are on my ignore list, but on the last pages I have seen complaints about her gameplay usefulness, her background, her character development, her voice acting, Liara helping Cerberus revive Shepard, Liara being devastated that her homeworld is invaded, asari generally being worthless bimbos - did I forget anything?
Who is "Allestia Iallis?"
I'd say the only people from the ME1 squad whose transitions and new stature in ME3 were believable are Kaidan and possibly Wrex (a person of some stature on Tuchanka from before ME1, despite a long absence). Ashley jumped something like eight ranks in six months and takes umbrage if you suggest she isn't Spectre material. Jack does the same if you scoff at her teaching position (I can imagine the job recommendation Shepard could give - "Hey, before you lock me up, there's someone I released from a supermax prison that I wanted to tell you about..."). Tali, to her credit, recognizes and says she isn't admiralty material (her out-of-character (and inconsistent with the leaked script) inaction in the face of extinction supports this assertion). We're at least allowed to express credulity about their positions. With Liara, it's never really addressed.
Illium is not a "small pond" by any stretch. Benezia's contacts are not Liara's contacts; they parted ways years earlier. She started with no contacts, experience, or resources and immediately transitioned to prominence. She got shoehorned into the plot in a way that makes no sense and which we are not permitted to question; that's the long and short of it.
Allestia Iallis is the asari on Noveria.
Of course Shepard can question it, both in ME2 and LotSB.
Illium is a relatively small asari colony. It is a small pond in the MEU. That doesn't mean Liara doesn't know some of her mothers friends and allies who are willing to help her, as evidenced by Liara's homeworld comic. Again, Liara most likely did keep a copy of the SB's data cache she and Feron found in the SB base when they recovered Shepards body. That's a starting point. Liara not having any resources is your headcanon, one that doesn't make any sense. Well, it makes no sense to you, others disagree.
Even so, what's wrong with that? Are people not justified in questioning those things? What's wrong with a different opinion?
There's nothing wrong with that. But you called Liara fans out for having a different opinion, that we can't accept a "single flaw". If complaining about these things is fine, so is defending the character.
Sometimes Liara (strange on my phone auto correct wants to call her liar) actually comes across pretty manipulative. If you look at how she acts when Shep has flirted with Liara and Kaiden/Ashley and it comes down to the confrontation. Particularly with Ashley (I had to watch it on YouTube because I never pay man Shep) Liara seems to handle the situation pretty well, in fact she seems like she's pressing Ashley's buttons. Maybe Liara isn't so innocent, maybe it's just an act to get Shep to like her? Possible way to think about it anyway.
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