1180 réponses à ce sujet

[Drone223]

Liara and Shepard's baby for ME 4 protagonist!

That would be a bad idea, most fans would be ****** if that happened, fortunately that won't be happening.

[Xilizhra]

How does one not liking to be hugged by a character make someone insane? I don't care for it. If anything,  the player should've been given the choice to hug or not just like in the broker dlc after the shadow broker is killed.

To the extent of having to incinerate your own armor after it? Also, asari don't spread tetanus. They're notably lacking in pointy metal bits; in fact, they're rather smoother than humans due to not having body hair.

[themikefest]

And what does it matter? She is available to both genders. Why deal with ifs? Or are you really that desperate to prove your point?

 

I'm not desparate to prove anything. I'm pointing out she has the advantage of being available for both genders, whereas others don't.

[Sir DeLoria]

@everyone saying "Liara is the most popular romance by a longshot": Do you have any evidence to back up that extreme claim? Surveys with a couple hundred or thousand participants don't say much for a game with such a large fanbase.

The only info we have is that Liara was taken on missions the most frequently, which means absolutely nothing, especially since she is one of the few available from the start.

[Drone223]

@everyone saying "Liara is the most popular romance by a longshot": Do you have any evidence to back up that extreme claim? Surveys with a couple hundred or thousand participants don't say much for a game with such a large fanbase.

The only info we have is that Liara was taken on missions the most frequently, which means absolutely nothing, especially since she is one of the few available from the start.

And you have no choice to take her with you on Thessia and Eden Prime, which would have skewed results.

[Endurium]

I like Liara and usually bring her along for her biotics. I romanced her twice through the series, but it finally sunk in her role as Shadow Broker didn't/wouldn't leave much time for my Shepard, so these days he romances Tali, whose personality I've always preferred anyway. I bring them both along when able.

 

My female friends tend to hate on Liara for some reason, but I chalk it up to female rivalry.

[Mordokai]

@everyone saying "Liara is the most popular romance by a longshot": Do you have any evidence to back up that extreme claim? Surveys with a couple hundred or thousand participants don't say much for a game with such a large fanbase.

The only info we have is that Liara was taken on missions the most frequently, which means absolutely nothing, especially since she is one of the few available from the start.

 

You have any proves to the opposite? Bad evidence, at least according to you, is better than no evidence. Lawyers, put those pitchforks and torches away!

 

But there is also this.

[Ashira Shepard]

As for Javik... eh, he's just an obnoxious troll who's probably bitter about asari policy not dooming the galaxy in the same way that Prothean policy did (by homogenizing everything in such a way that the Reapers found it painfully easy to adapt to their tactics).

 

The thing about Javik though is that he came from a time that was in no possible way like the one Shepard is in. He was born during the harvest, when the citadel had already fallen, and tells you his first memory was of his planet in flames. If he looks at the memory shard, showing him his people before the Reapers broke them, he is horrified and heartbroken at what they lost to the point of suicide.

 

"Probably bitter" doesn't really fit him so much as he's so steeped in bitterness and horrific sacrifice that he feels the Asari absolutely deserved their planet being overrun for keeping everything to themselves.

[Heimdall]

The thing about Javik though is that he came from a time that was in no possible way like the one Shepard is in. He was born during the harvest, when the citadel had already fallen, and tells you his first memory was of his planet in flames. If he looks at the memory shard, showing him his people before the Reapers broke them, he is horrified and heartbroken at what they lost to the point of suicide.

 

"Probably bitter" doesn't really fit him so much as he's so steeped in bitterness and horrific sacrifice that he feels the Asari absolutely deserved their planet being overrun for keeping everything to themselves.

See, this is why I liked Javik.  Sure, he was bitter, but it was very justified.

[Ryzaki]

I dislike her cause she's boring, creepy and frankly strikes me as obsessive and pathetic.

 

*shrugs* To each their own and all that jazz.

[BioWareM0d13]

Mostly its a case of some other waifu getting more content than their favorite waifu.

 

Prior to LotSB Miranda and Tali were the focus of similar threads, because they had more content than Ashley, Liara, and Kaidan.

[Xilizhra]

The thing about Javik though is that he came from a time that was in no possible way like the one Shepard is in. He was born during the harvest, when the citadel had already fallen, and tells you his first memory was of his planet in flames. If he looks at the memory shard, showing him his people before the Reapers broke them, he is horrified and heartbroken at what they lost to the point of suicide.

 

"Probably bitter" doesn't really fit him so much as he's so steeped in bitterness and horrific sacrifice that he feels the Asari absolutely deserved their planet being overrun for keeping everything to themselves.

While some of the fanbase might have such lamentably low levels of intelligence, Javik strikes me as being far too smart to not realize that the unfathomably vast majority of asari did not know of the beacon. It was known only to the highest levels of the asari government... and that body doesn't even officially exist, both because asari society is a direct e-democracy and because the Republics don't have a single uniting leader or group of leaders like the Hierarchy does. While a conspiracy did exist to keep the beacon secret, it would have had to have been both tiny and unscrupulous by nature to survive and remain secret for thousands of years. Condemning the entirety of the asari for this is about two steps less sane than condemning the entirety of humanity for the Nazis.

And moreover, the notion of a Prothean condemning another race for not sharing power and technology among other races is absurdly hypocritical.

[Drone223]

Mostly its a case of some other waifu getting more content than their favorite waifu.

 

Prior to LotSB Miranda and Tali were the focus of similar threads, because they had more content than Ashley, Liara, and Kaidan.

Problem is that here character development is very inconsistent, in ME1 she spent most her time in studying the protheans, but in ME2 she becomes the best information broker a matter of two years with no past experience being one what-so-ever there is no way that is believable.

[SNascimento]

I think Javik is just disappointed with the Asari. The protheans went out their way to engineer that species for something more, and then he wakes up 50.000 years later just to realize the only thing the Asari excels is in dacing at night clubs. 

Although everything he says is logical. 

[Xilizhra]

I think Javik is just disappointed with the Asari. The protheans went out their way to engineer that species for something more, and then he wakes up 50.000 years later just to realize the only thing the Asari excels is in dacing at night clubs. 

Although everything he says is logical. 

Well, he would think that. The Protheans are what the krogan would have become had they had time to mature on their own; words like "culture" would seem to have little meaning for them, or at least not to Javik's warrior caste.

 

Also, Javik would be a remarkable moron to think that's the only thing the asari are good at.

[Livi14]

From Ashes is the only Mass Effect DLC I regret buying. The mission was crap and I don't care about Javik, I found him simply annoying.

[SNascimento]

Well, he would think that. The Protheans are what the krogan would have become had they had time to mature on their own; words like "culture" would seem to have little meaning for them, or at least not to Javik's warrior caste.

 

Also, Javik would be a remarkable moron to think that's the only thing the asari are good at.

I disagree. 

The protheans were extremely imperialistic, but they weren't mindless. Also, when the Salarins found the Krogan they had already destroyed their own planet.

And maybe the Asari are equally good at being consorts?

[Texhnolyze101]

From Ashes is the only Mass Effect DLC I regret buying. The mission was crap and I don't care about Javik, I found him simply annoying.

 

You just don't like him because he calls liara and her race out on their bullshit.

[Xilizhra]

I disagree. 

The protheans were extremely imperialistic, but they weren't mindless. Also, when the Salarins found the Krogan they had already destroyed their own planet.

And maybe the Asari are equally good at being consorts?

Well, the Protheans were extremely violent and only respected strength. Perhaps they were designed to be pack hunters more than the krogan... so maybe it'd be better to compare them to the yahg.

 

In any case, the asari have the galaxy's largest economy, their scientists are on par with the salarians (actually doing far more if you go by ME3's war assets), their society is top-notch in terms of political liberties, their warriors are the most skilled in the galaxy (even though their numbers are low), their fleet is quite respectable, and their diplomacy has been at the forefront of welding galactic society into the force it is today... not to mention being responsible for saving humanity from the turians before the First Contact War attracted the attention of the Hierarchy at large.

[DuskWanderer]

(Note: The following rant assumes Shepard is male, but FemShep is equally applicable)

 

I hate Liara because I don't care for her character. In ME1 she was a boring, bland, insipid character who struck me as completely optional. The only (tenuous) connection she had to the plot was being Benezia's daughter and having Prothean knowledge to find Ilos. The first of which is unnecessary since you can beat Benezia without meeting her, and the second is no more than a few seconds of dialogue. It's honestly not enough to justify being forced to take her with you. The others came with you before you went on the mission (Ashley, Kaidan, and Tali having more plot relevance than Wrex or Garrus, who are optional) 

 

Now from that, I was okay with ignoring her. I didn't like her, but I could ignore her and focus on the squaddies I did like. The problem came after that, starting in Mass Effect 2. When she's met on Illium, she's immediately hugged and treated as if I was meeting an old friend. But I wasn't, I never spoke to Liara outside of the times I had to (Literally, I didn't know where she was on the ship, and I treated her with relative hostility, I thought she'd be a spy). The choices the character made were broken, ignored completely in favor of a set narrative. But honestly, said narrative didn't matter: Shepard's feeling towards were inconsequential: Data about Samara and Thane could have been received from EDI, who does this on other hub worlds. 

 

Then came the Genesis comic, while spent so much time shilling and praising her. Kaidan was said to be by-the-books and good with biotics, Ashley was determined and a fighter, Garrus was a talented cop with leads, Wrex was a badass bounty hunter, and Tali was an energetic mechanic. Everyone got the same amount of lines. Liara, however, got several panels of her, and Shepard fawned endlessly over her, saying how beautiful she was, how talented she was, how he gained a greatful appreciation of the asari, and an endless diatribe of how Benezia died in Liara's arms. It was overmuch, and clearly presented as a favored character. 

 

Lair of the Shadow Broker also made it worse, if only because Shepard kept yelling about how much he liked Liara (screaming when the bomb goes off), having conversations with her (very jarring considering the entire point of ME2 was about the whole squad). Also upsetting when Shepard, at the end, goes to help Liara and be all comforting to her rather than check on his third, unconscious squadmate, who may or may not be your love interest. There was also the matter of the charred armor she pulled off of Shepard's corpse enshrined in her apartment like a trophy. It's extremely creepy and downright stalkerish. 

 

Mass Effect 3 was a real clincher. Not only does M!Shep give a creepy "Li-are-a" at the beginning of the Mars mission, but she constantly invites herself up to Shepard's cabin (inappropriate for a military ship, it's the captain's for a reason). Shepard is also unable to criticize her over the course of it. When she's whining about Thessia, talking about how the Alliance should spring for air support, I wanted to punch her: People have been dying for months on Earth, and I'm supposed to care about one random asari? She acts downright smug when she says "Ashley/Kaidan has become capable", as if they weren't beforehand. 

 

That's the story problems, but the personal ones are another issue. Liara doesn't have much characterization outside of Shepard, and what she does have is very cliche. She's a naive, virginal scientist in way over her depth. All of a sudden come ME2, she's supposed to be this badass information broker. I didn't buy it. She's also treated as Shepard's best friend, if not his lover, even though she might never be spoken to in the first game. Shepard did not get to shape that narrative, it was forced on us, even though we did something different. That's a problem in a game like this.

 

Her characterization is also very scatter-shot, a spaghetti type character (where you throw everything you have inside of her, throw it to the wall, and see what sticks) I'm supposed to believe she's still my naive scientist, a badass information broker, and some kind of commando, all at the same time. Also, she has a lot of Mary Sue tropes, like the incorruptability, the shilling, the fact that no one can speak out against her except for the jerks, and more. 

 

 

 

tl-dr? She's a boring cliche

[Livi14]

You just don't like him because he calls liara and her race out on their bullshit.

I don't like him because he's useless in combat. I found him one-dimensional and he doesn't know what he's talking about half the time. Javik's entire strategy is demand help from people and leave them behind when they need help as well, and sacrifice anyone and everything just to cover your own ass. That's never going to work. He just condescends to everybody and thinks they should do it his way, even though his methods have been proven to fail. And he breaks lore. One example? According to Javik, it was a Prothean genetic engineering project that gave the Asari biotics. But we know all wildlife on Thessia has biotic powers because of the eezo. That means I don't like his personality and don't use him in combat, hence I regret buying the DLC.

[Xilizhra]

I don't like him because he's useless in combat. I found him one-dimensional and he doesn't know what he's talking about half the time. Javik's entire strategy is demand help from people and leave them behind when they need help as well, and sacrifice anyone and everything just to cover your own ass. That's never going to work. He just condescends to everybody and thinks they should do it his way, even though his methods have been proven to fail. And he breaks lore. One example? According to Javik, it was a Prothean genetic engineering project that gave the Asari biotics. But we know all wildlife on Thessia has biotic powers because of the eezo.

It might not be lore-breaking. It's entirely possible that Javik is just plain wrong. Be it because there's no way he'd have any firsthand knowledge of any asari engineering or because he's trying to put Liara into what he feels is her place... or both.

[SNascimento]

It might not be lore-breaking. It's entirely possible that Javik is just plain wrong. Be it because there's no way he'd have any firsthand knowledge of any asari engineering or because he's trying to put Liara into what he feels is her place... or both.

There is: memory shards. He clearly knew what he was talking about.
 
Anyway, Javik just translated the Asari bible. Where the Asari thought it was divine work, it was actually just the protheans engineering their society. 

[BioWareM0d13]

Problem is that here character development is very inconsistent, in ME1 she spent most her time in studying the protheans, but in ME2 she becomes the best information broker a matter of two years with no past experience being one what-so-ever there is no way that is believable.

 

While all of that is true, I don't think it is responsible for the derailing of any thread discussing the character. You could create a thread about what abilities you think work best for Liara in ME3 and it will probably devolve into a rehash of every Liara hate thread ever created. 

 

There are certainly some legitimate criticisms with how the character was written or presented throughout the series. I share a few of them, despite being a fan of the character. But gripes about how the character was written doesn't explain by itself why the character has such a vocal hate club. That is mostly motivated by the fact that she has more content than the other LIs, with the exception of Garrus, who also happens to be male. (male characters are always less polarizing)

 

That people are so vocal and emotional about it is mostly motivated by sour grapes over the allocation of content.

 

Its a repeat of what went on with Tali and Miranda in ME2. The only difference is that its directed at one character instead of spread between two.

[DuskWanderer]

That's not necessarily true. The biggest criticism I've seen isn't that she gets the most from the love interests, but that she's the default bestie when the LI isn't available. She flirts with you in the Citadel DLC if your LI isn't on the ship, or if you don't have one, or even if you dumped her.