1180 réponses à ce sujet

[SNascimento]

 

All about choice? Oh.

 

I didn't want to be a Spectre.

That's a very imperinent post. Yes, Mass Effect doesn't allow you to do everything you want, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't join Cerberus if they could, or not get this or that squadmate, but some restrictions come from being a game. And every single game has them.

That doesn't change that Mass Effect is a game built around player choices. Again with Cerberus, you might not want to join them, but by the end of the game you can pretty much say **** off to TIM and destroy the base, not to mention you can also show your distrust in them all along the game. The problem would be if your Shepard, regardless of what you want, pretended it was his dream all along to join them.

And that second part is more or less of what we have with Liara. A lot of her role is by necessity, she was the only LI that could 100% survive ME1, and with that the writers used her more and sacrificed the character for the plot, that's ok, the problem is how the personal relation is handled. It's not terrible to be honest and in game it makes absolute sense for Shepard to be friendly with Liara (and all other squadmates) but there was some moments that could been handled better.

[Mordokai]

You're making a very good point about why people dislike Liara just by how often you repeat Bioware made decisions for you and the player needs to accept them. Mass Effect was all about choice, you take that away, people don't like. Especially them a lot of them would make other ones.

 

So why hate the character for something that wasn't her fault? I can't be the only one to find that just a wee bit... silly.

 

And we could debate about those choices, but really, the rails have been set. Liara is hardly the only offender there.

 

 

Liara was a terrible Shadow Broker for example. 

 

Only an is far as Bioware made her. I think she did a pretty good job, all things considered.

[KaiserShep]

The whole competent/incompetent Shadow Broker thing is kind of meaningless as a criticism of her character, because the role of the Broker in the story could have just as well been the same, or even have less of a presence, if a different character took over and simply did his/her thing elsewhere.

[themikefest]

So why hate the character for something that wasn't her fault? I can't be the only one to find that just a wee bit... silly.

 

So you wouldn't have a problem if another character you may not like, receive the attention and T'soni has a lot less than what she has now?

[Farangbaa]

And that second part is more or less of what we have with Liara. A lot of her role is by necessity, she was the only LI that could 100% survive ME1, and with that the writers used her more and sacrificed the character for the plot, that's ok, the problem is how the personal relation is handled. It's not terrible to be honest and in game it makes absolute sense for Shepard to be friendly with Liara (and all other squadmates) but there was some moments that could been handled better.

 

I think we're done here.

[Farangbaa]

So you wouldn't have a problem if another character you may not like, receive the attention and T'soni has a lot less than what she has now?

 

Nope. 

 

Because you know what? We play and enjoy the game instead of whining what it could've/would've/should've been but isn't.

 

Yes, have, not of.

[themikefest]

Nope. 

 

Because you know what? We play and enjoy the game instead of whining what it could've/would've/should've been but isn't.

 

Yes, have, not of.

You may not have a problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if others do.

[Farangbaa]

You may not have a problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if others do.

 

Your point being what exactly? 

 

Did you even read the post you replied to initially? or did you just write down a random, completely unrelated thought?

 

So why hate the character for something that wasn't her fault? I can't be the only one to find that just a wee bit... silly.

 

^is what you quoted.

 

And this is your reply:

 

So you wouldn't have a problem if another character you may not like, receive the attention and T'soni has a lot less than what she has now?

 

What?

[themikefest]

Your point being what exactly? 

 

Did you even read the post you replied to initially? or did you just write down a random, completely unrelated thought?

 

 

What was unrelated? Did you even read my post or did you post some random, completely unrelated thought?

[KaiserShep]

It's not terrible to be honest and in game it makes absolute sense for Shepard to be friendly with Liara (and all other squadmates) but there was some moments that could been handled better.

 

I assume you mean your Shepard specifically. As I mentioned elsewhere, I imagine that being able to alter these scenes and dialogue throughout the series would require certain flags based on dialogue options, but I'm not sure how well such a thing would carry over beyond the romance content. I suppose this could have been rectified by having one or two instances in the first game where Shepard can say or do something she doesn't like, thereby creating an alternate path for her character's relationship with the PC. Again, dunno how this would really work.

[Livi14]

You're making a very good point about why people dislike Liara just by how often you repeat Bioware made decisions for you and the player needs to accept them. Mass Effect was all about choice, you take that away, people don't like. Especially them a lot of them would make other ones. 

Not only because personal preference but also in game reason. Liara was a terrible Shadow Broker for example. 

 

According to whom? Liara's still doing her shadow-broker-stuff in the background while this story goes on, including the discovery of the Crucible plans. The reason Bioware didn't make the Shadow Broker thing more central to the plot is pretty obvious, too. The writers chose to make Traynor seem useful as she was a character (not talking about LI stuff) nobody asked for. Her character could have easily been rolled into EDI or Liara, but Liara is still doing a lot with the remaining resources she has.

[Farangbaa]

What was unrelated? Did you even read my post or did you post some random, completely unrelated thought?

 

And I think we're done here.

[SNascimento]

According to whom? Liara's still doing her shadow-broker-stuff in the background while this story goes on, including the discovery of the Crucible plans. The reason Bioware didn't make the Shadow Broker thing more central to the plot is pretty obvious, too. The writers chose to make Traynor seem useful as she was a character (not talking about LI stuff) nobody asked for. Her character could have easily been rolled into EDI or Liara, but Liara is still doing a lot with the remaining resources she has.

According to logic. 

Liara misses every major piece of information, and like you said, Traynor is much more useful then her. You can't just blame Bioware, we have to story that was told, you can judge it for what you think should have been. 
 

 

So why hate the character for something that wasn't her fault? I can't be the only one to find that just a wee bit... silly.

 

And we could debate about those choices, but really, the rails have been set. Liara is hardly the only offender there.

Nothing is Liara fault, not the bad, not the good. She is a piece of writing. But yes, logically the dissatisfaction should be aimed at the writers who wronged in some parts of the story and characters. Even with this in mind, it's only natural that people will dislike the character herself, that's with what the players interact. Add that to the places like this forum who brew negativity and you have what we have. 

[Livi14]

 

According to logic. 

Liara misses every major piece of information, and like you said, Traynor is much more useful then her. You can't just blame Bioware, we have to story that was told, you can judge it for what you think should have been. 
 

 

Not really. Liara's plot in ME3 is the discovery and construction of the Crucible, and that is more important than anything Traynor did. With the Reapers attacking and many of her agents dead she's focusing her efforts on helping to coordinate and supply the Crucible construction. That doesn't make her a terrible Shadow Broker either, because without the crucible all the war assets you collect would be completely useless.

[Gtdef]

Well even if the player understands that it's the writer's fault, blaming just "Liara" is easier to get the point across. I personally think it's pretty simple. She is a plot device and not a very well written one since the only unique thing she is useful for is to leave information for the next cycle. She can do that without having to be friendly and it wasn't even included in the game without the director's cut.

 

I just don't understand why people don't get that. It's not about "hate". If you like Liara so much that you don't understand it, take a character that you really don't like and put him in Liara's shoes. That's what this is about. Since Cerberus knows about the crucible too, let's put the almighty Jacob in Liara's shoes and give him 5 times more screen time than the rest of the characters. You feel it? Believe it.

[Mordokai]

So you wouldn't have a problem if another character you may not like, receive the attention and T'soni has a lot less than what she has now?

 

No. I prefer to focus on good things in games.

 

Not really. Liara's plot in ME3 is the discovery and construction of the Crucible, and that is more important than anything Traynor did. With the Reapers attacking and many of her agents dead she's focusing her efforts on helping to coordinate and supply the Crucible construction. That doesn't make her a terrible Shadow Broker either, because without the crucible all the war assets you collect would be completely useless.

 

Plus, she is likely fighting Cerberus/Reapers/geth with Shepard. Meaning she spends a lot of time on ground and after that, she still gets back to the Normandy and coordinates the Crucible effort.

 

It's pretty clearly implied that Liara dedicated the might of Broker's network(limited as it may be) towards Crucible. That leaves her with little time for anything else.

[Livi14]

Well even if the player understands that it's the writer's fault, blaming just "Liara" is easier to get the point across. I personally think it's pretty simple. She is a plot device and not a very well written one since the only unique thing she is useful for is to leave information for the next cycle. She can do that without having to be friendly and it wasn't even included in the game without the director's cut.

 

I just don't understand why people don't get that. It's not about "hate". If you like Liara so much that you don't understand it, take a character that you really don't like and put him in Liara's shoes. That's what this is about. Since Cerberus knows about the crucible too, let's put the almighty Jacob in Liara's shoes and give him 5 times more screen time than the rest of the characters. You feel it? Believe it.

 

Garrus had zero plot relevance. His arc and growth pretty much started and ended in ME1. And yet, he has more screentime than everyone else, including Liara. No Shepard without Vakarian? Or Joker in ME2. He is the reason Shepard didn't get away in time. And yet when he sees Shepard again after two years, he's just like "Sup Commander :D" like it was nothing. And never says a word about it for the rest of the game.

[KaiserShep]

I guess the "problem" is that the bulk of the shadow broker-y tasks that she's performing are dealing with things not directly involved with Shepard's tasks, since she's either crunching numbers on the Crucible, or contacting agents to gather resources or space groceries or something. It doesn't help that, per her own admission, the web of agents is collapsing under the reaper invasion.

[SNascimento]

Not really. Liara's plot in ME3 is the discovery and construction of the Crucible, and that is more important than anything Traynor did. With the Reapers attacking and many of her agents dead she's focusing her efforts on helping to coordinate and supply the Crucible construction. That doesn't make her a terrible Shadow Broker either, because without the crucible all the war assets you collect would be completely useless.

That's an excuse. The construction of the Crucible is a combined effort, she was just one more doing a job many others were doing. The Shadow Broker should do things that only he could do. And she misses everything. 

But then, she is an Asari after all. Expectations must be limited. 

 

[Gtdef]

Garrus had zero plot relevance. His arc and growth pretty much started and ended in ME1. And yet, he has more screentime than everyone else, including Liara. No Shepard without Vakarian? Or Joker in ME2. He is the reason Shepard didn't get away in time. And yet when he sees Shepard again after two years, he's just like "Sup Commander :D" like it was nothing. And never says a word about it for the rest of the game.

 

Agreed. I don't like that as well. Obvious fan service and irrelevant like most of ME2 squadmembers except Mordin. Damn game doesn't even acknowledge that you can choose to not have anything to do with Garrus in ME1. It would be cool to actually have Garrus become a c-sec captain/spectre and bring him back into the game as a helpful npc that can potentially be asked to join the team. It wouldn't change much and could stay true to player's decisions in ME1. And if he was in c-sec we have bailey to replace him if we want to recruit him.

 

At least personally I like Garrus as a character. Can't say the same about Liara.

[KaiserShep]

Does Garrus still say all that stuff about Noveria, Feros and Ilos on the Citadel if you didn't recruit him in ME1?

[CptFalconPunch]

So guess Tyrion is a hated character as well.

[Gtdef]

What does Tyrion has to do with anything? Didn't know that GoT was rpg with interactive storytelling. Best comment ever dude..

[KBomb]

 

 

Also, I question how healthy the amount of rage you display here is. It's a fictional character, for Pete's sake.

 

 

Not to point out the obvious, and rage aside--(which, tbh, I didn't notice any rage in his post, more like indignation), but this is a thread asking why people hate Liara. You obviously don't hate her and yet you appear on almost every page arguing with people who dislike her about how they're wrong. In one post you used the term "spiteful fans", which you had to know was incendiary. I mean, I get it. You love her and it is a forum and you want to discuss this because you cannot understand how someone could dislike Liara---but this is a thread asking why people hate her. You shouldn't be surprised that people who hate her would post here and explain why they hate her.

 

Liara is a fictional character and it's okay for people not to like her. Whether they dislike her because she is spoonfed to them, or because they don't like her character traits, or even because she has a weird tentacle thing happening on her head----who cares? Really, it isn't like Liara is going to read this and cry herself to sleep tonight because some fans think she is a creepy kind of gal.