54 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

I know that, but you don't get it. Look at the overall damage. Flare's detonations range is far and away the largest, which means it hits more enemies than any other detonation. If it does (random number out of my ass) 200 damage to enemies and the throw explosion only hit 4 out of 10 enemies and flare's hit 8 out of 10 enemies, it doesn't take much math to see which did the more overall damage to the group as a whole.

 

I understand, don't get me wrong I just like to spam double Pull + double Throw all the time like I'm some Space Jesus Magician.

 

'Behind cover? Well, not anymore. Aaaaaaaaand you're dead'

[andy6915]

I understand, don't get me wrong I just like to spam double Pull + double Throw all the time like I'm some Space Jesus Magician.
 
'Behind cover? Well, not anymore. Aaaaaaaaand you're dead'

Funny you mention cover, speaking of flare. To quote the wiki-
 
"The large blast radius of Flare means that it's highly effective against enemies in environments with large amounts of cover. Even if the projectile strikes cover instead of an enemy, the size of the explosion produced means that it will nearly always damage them anyway. Likewise, enemies that try to dodge the attack, like most Cerberus troops, will still be struck by it."

 

Cover doesn't protect enemies from it, and dodging won't help you avoid it.

 

You sound like you should give it a serious test run as adept Shepard sometime. You'll likely be a lot more impressed with it than you're expecting.

[andy6915]

I think I've now come up with an in-lore explanation for flare. It's an anti-singularity. If singularity is an implosion of biotic energy, flare is an explosion of it. In fact, singularity is pretty much a "pull" talent that is localized into a single point and it pulls everything into it. Well, flare is like a "throw" talent that is localized into a single point and then throws everything out from it (it's just last much less long then singularity does). Thus, it's a telekinesis talent like singularity and pull and throw. If singularity is balling your fist, flare is like fully opening your hand.

 

Fitting for an adept. Not only do my adepts have singularity, they have their opposite sibling in the form of flare.

[KaiserShep]

It's a fun way to sweep an area. If you do NG+ with a fully spec'd Shepard and have flare maxed out, the archives mission is ridiculously brief with how quickly you can clear the rooms.

[von uber]

I said canonically. Obviously vanguards are far more powerful in gameplay in ME3, charge+nova spam with 200% cooldown bonus is broken.

I assume by broken you mean awesome power house of doom.

[andy6915]

I assume by broken you mean awesome power house of doom.

I mean it breaks the game's challenge to the point of being effortless on any difficulty.

[von uber]

I mean it breaks the game's challenge to the point of being effortless on any difficulty.

Personally when it comes to some of the pointless grinds you have to do its a good thing.

[Farangbaa]

Funny you mention cover, speaking of flare. To quote the wiki-
 
"The large blast radius of Flare means that it's highly effective against enemies in environments with large amounts of cover. Even if the projectile strikes cover instead of an enemy, the size of the explosion produced means that it will nearly always damage them anyway. Likewise, enemies that try to dodge the attack, like most Cerberus troops, will still be struck by it."

 

Cover doesn't protect enemies from it, and dodging won't help you avoid it.

 

You sound like you should give it a serious test run as adept Shepard sometime. You'll likely be a lot more impressed with it than you're expecting.

 

It's not about damaging them behind covers, it's about pulling them from behind cover.

 

It makes me feel like The Puppeteer: Space Jesus Magician edition

[Dabrikishaw]

Different implants I guess. 

[Oni Changas]

A detonation involving Flare does not do the most damage btw (unless you factor in the damage Flare does without the detonation).

 

Detonation damage is based on the level of the powers used. Level 6 Pull + level 6 Throw will do the same detonation damage as level 6 Reave + level 6 Flare (assuming both Throw and Flare went for the detonation combo bonus damage)

 

Unstable Warp + Throw does the same detonation damage as Unstable Warp + Flare. This is the reason I stopped using Flare.

RONG.

 

 

See: Warp->Shockwave.

[Farangbaa]

RONG.

 

 

See: Warp->Shockwave.

 

Lol no. Same as warp + throw or warp + flare.

[von uber]

In fact what's even better is that I've mapped charge and nova to my two side mouse buttons, so I can do it even more efficiently.

[Excella Gionne]

Nova + Charge gets so old though. It really has little to no taste to it, and I'm like a pro at it.

[KaiserShep]

Nova + Charge gets so old though. It really has little to no taste to it, and I'm like a pro at it.

That kinda happens with just about every power that you can spam. I like to balance it out sometimes by having weapons that impede on my powers' cooldown. It curtails my tendency to charge and nova everything in sight.

[Excella Gionne]

That kinda happens with just about every power that you can spam. I like to balance it out sometimes by having weapons that impede on my powers' cooldown. It curtails my tendency to charge and nova everything in sight.

Charge + Nova is more spamable consecutively since Nova has no cooldown(your barriers is its cooldown), and Biotic Charge has short cooldown of 3.33 seconds at 200% Recharge bonus. It's completely fine since reckless Vanguards get themselves killed most of the time. Vanguards can be played like a more aggressive version of the Infiltrator and Soldier class, fast and durable, but reckless too. 

[KaiserShep]

It's more reckless in multiplayer, since it's much easier to get swarmed and overwhelmed, but in single player, Charge + Nova half-blast is nigh unstoppable, even on hardcore and insanity, especially if you apply the bonuses you can get throughout the game. ME2's Vanguard required much greater care, because you had no crowd control and you could easily charge to your death.

[shodiswe]

All Shepards are OP, it commes with being Shepard.

[Excella Gionne]

It's more reckless in multiplayer, since it's much easier to get swarmed and overwhelmed, but in single player, Charge + Nova half-blast is nigh unstoppable, even on hardcore and insanity, especially if you apply the bonuses you can get throughout the game. ME2's Vanguard required much greater care, because you had no crowd control and you could easily charge to your death.

Lol, I've always played Sentinel in ME2 since it made things go way faster! That class was unstoppable! I never got into Vanguard'ing in ME2. In Multiplayer, there's more use in Charge + Nova since you're stuck on a map instead of progressing within the stage unless it's an N7 Mission. 

[KaiserShep]

I was rather infatuated with the serious adrenaline rush effect of the Vanguard in ME2. It was so nice to see an enemy fly back in slow motion, then burst into flames when you put a hit in with the shotgun with incendiary ammo.

[dreamgazer]

I was rather infatuated with the serious adrenaline rush effect of the Vanguard in ME2. It was so nice to see an enemy fly back in slow motion, then burst into flames when you put a hit in with the shotgun with incendiary ammo.

 

Been years since I've taken a vanguard through single-player. You're making me wish I had done so instead of my adept (but I'm having fun with her, too). 

[DemiserofD]

Maybe the body automatically reroutes eezo nodules to where they're needed most, kinda like muscles? The Adept tends to use their nodules more often and more universally, while the Vanguard is more focused on a few talents, so they only need their eezo nodules in a few specific locations.

 

That also explains why they're more awesome than adepts; all their power(from the same amount of eezo) is focused into only a few activities, like biotically charging. Basically, all they have is a hammer, but it's a really BIG hammer. 

[andy6915]

Game Mechanics & class variety, OP. Otherwise we only have three classes each with multiple specializations.

 

What does that have to do with my question? I asked if adept Shepard is naturally more gifted from birth at biotics and that's why they're an adept, or is it just because Shepard trained it exclusively that it's why that Shepard is the most powerful biotically? Training or luck, which decided Shepard's biotic power in class selection?

 

It's like people have a reading comprehension problem.

[KaiserShep]

I'm pretty sure that it's not as simple as one class being more powerful than the other in terms of biotics. It was my understanding that the measure of biotic output is independent of specialization, since it varies from person to person, their implant type and their training, but of course the gameplay doesn't really allow for this, since it can vary more widely between individuals within the universe than can be reflected in the game's combat. In any case, that the adepts are essentially the dark energy Swiss army knives of Mass Effect doesn't necessarily make them more powerful. A Vanguard could still rolfstomp one with its fewer, but far more focused abilities. It kind of helps (or hurts) that armored and shielded targets like Shepard are immune to the "ragdoll" talents.

[andy6915]

I'm pretty sure that it's not as simple as one class being more powerful than the other in terms of biotics. It was my understanding that the measure of biotic output is independent of specialization, since it varies from person to person, their implant type and their training, but of course the gameplay doesn't really allow for this, since it can vary more widely between individuals within the universe than can be reflected in the game's combat. In any case, that the adepts are essentially the dark energy Swiss army knives of Mass Effect doesn't necessarily make them more powerful. A Vanguard could still rolfstomp one with its fewer, but far more focused abilities. It kind of helps (or hurts) that armored and shielded targets like Shepard are immune to the "ragdoll" talents.

Considering the class selection screen for all 3 games always shows adepts with far more aura or eezo nodes throughout their nervous system (it looks to be about 3 or 4 times as much as sentinel and vanguard have), I think adepts being the most powerful biotically isn't even up for discussion. This is like trying to say infiltrators are better at tech than engineers or that vanguards are better at guns than soldiers. It's just plain false.

 

The point is, I thought in ME1 that other biotic classes weren't as good at biotics because they didn't focus as much on training that aspect as adept did. But the nervous system map now makes me think adepts are more powerful because they just so happened to get more nodes than the other classes. So again, training or luck? This has been the real point of this thread, and almost every single post hasn't even discussed this aspect.