122 réponses à ce sujet

[Stuff]

So, in my first playthrough, things ended poorly. As in all of the "painted elves" died horribly. Their merchant.. he exploded, very messy stuff. So, will start a second playthrough soon and I intent to have it with a considerably less amount of dead elves. Now I believe that giving or not Merrill that carving tool is a major point in this part.. but I'm not sure, because in this game I notice that it doesn't matter what you do, you don't change much. So, I wanna know that if you don't give her the tool you will keep everyone alive, include the Keeper or it doesn't matter? because if doesn't, I'm just gonna go "here's you bloody thing and let's go slaughter you entire clan.. again"

[Pateu]

The thing that triggers the fight is your response to the elves when you come out of the cave and tell them Marethari is dead.

 

'' I take full responsibility '' is the only answer that doesn't result in a fight.

[Stuff]

Yeah, I just learned that. I search about it before I made the post, but this was all I could found on it. The problem is that the Keeper still dies. I wanna know if it possible to save even her.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, I just learned that. I search about it before I made the post, but this was all I could found on it. The problem is that the Keeper still dies. I wanna know if it possible to save even her.

No; there's not much you can do to save people who allow themselves to be possessed by pride demons. She's this game's Uldred.

[GreyLycanTrope]

It's not, she gets possessed and dies regardless of what you do. Though I wouldn't compare her to Uldred myself.

[themikefest]

The keeper cannot be saved no matter what you do.

[Xilizhra]

It's not, she gets possessed and dies regardless of what you do. Though I wouldn't compare her to Uldred myself.

True, Uldred might not have been completely willing, depending on what the screams meant.

[Stuff]

Oh well, that sucks.. So, just gonna try not to kill everyone else then. Tks, guys.

[Jaison1986]

The keeper cannot be saved no matter what you do.

 

Um, I'm pretty sure she lives if you refuse to help Merrill. Of course she will still be possessed.

[thats1evildude]

Um, I'm pretty sure she lives if you refuse to help Merrill. Of course she will still be possessed.

And probably end up killing the whole clan anyway.

[congokong]

I always kill the clan. I refuse to meta-game by clicking the "I take full responsibility" line. In that situation I would've said "Marethari was possessed." If they can't accept the Keeper's stupidity then it's their funeral.

[Jaison1986]

I always kill the clan. I refuse to meta-game by clicking the "I take full responsibility" line. In that situation I would've said "Marethari was possessed." If they can't accept the Keeper's stupidity then it's their funeral.

 

Ha! That's exactly what happened the first time I played that quest. I thought "well, they are clearly angry, let's settle this like rational human beings... and elves. I just need to explain what hap... Oh snap!" I was actually left completely speechless for an enitre minute. I couldn't believe I was actually slaughtering the entire clan. I didn't killed them again after that for an single reason: I'm sick and tired of going on an mindless killing spree during my companion quests. There is Isabela, then Anders. If Merrill can be avoid, then so be it.

[blaidfiste]

I always hated those dialogue choices when confronting the clan.  For me taking responsibility meant "The Keeper's dead and it's my fault." i.e. Sticking up for Merrill whom I've supported the entire game.

 

Instead Hawke says this (Skip to 10:50)

 

 

making me look like a complete fool and a coward.  Even afterwards it's Fenarel that has to step in and stop the attack.  

 

I always pretend that Hawke was a good liar and convinced even Merrill that he was against her.

[congokong]

Saying "I take full responsibility" to me is stupid because:

 

1. Hawke isn't responsible

2. It isn't Merrill's fault

3. The keeper was stupid

 

Yes, Merrill's work was dangerous (as she acknowledged) but I always befriended her. Instead of bitching about how great things used to be like all the other Dalish she wanted to do something about it. And despite what characters like Anders or Fenris think, Marethari ending up possessed doesn't mean the keeper was right. Self-fulfilling prophecy anyone? Her plan was so stupid. I wasn't about to defend the keeper there.

 

I don't trust Marethari. Behind her gentle nature is a manipulator, exaggerator, and liar. She exaggerates (a bit) about the damage of Feynriel being possessed to get Hawke's cooperation, she exaggerates and/or lies to the clan about Merrill (enough for Pol to run away from her to his death), and she keeps the clan near Kirkwall for 6 years despite potential danger against the clan's wishes. I don't even trust her about Audacity's plan. She might be lying "out of love" for Merrill just like how she broke the demon out of a secure prison and put it into herself "out of love." If what she said was true then she could have just told Merrill instead of enacting her crazy plan.

[Jaison1986]

Saying "I take full responsibility" to me is stupid because:

 

1. Hawke isn't responsible

2. It isn't Merrill's fault

3. The keeper was stupid

 

Yes, Merrill's work was dangerous (as she acknowledged) but I always befriended her. Instead of bitching about how great things used to be like all the other Dalish she wanted to do something about it. And despite what characters like Anders or Fenris think, Marethari ending up possessed doesn't mean the keeper was right. Self-fulfilling prophecy anyone? Her plan was so stupid. I wasn't about to defend the keeper there.

 

I don't trust Marethari. Behind her gentle nature is a manipulator, exaggerator, and liar. She exaggerates (a bit) about the damage of Feynriel being possessed to get Hawke's cooperation, she exaggerates and/or lies to the clan about Merrill (enough for Pol to run away from her to his death), and she keeps the clan near Kirkwall for 6 years despite potential danger against the clan's wishes. I don't even trust her about Audacity's plan. She might be lying "out of love" for Merrill just like how she broke the demon out of a secure prison and put it into herself "out of love." If what she said was true then she could have just told Merrill instead of enacting her crazy plan.

 

While it's true that the Keeper was an idiot, this is partly Merrill fault. Had she given up on the stupid mirror after so many people told her to, Marethari wouldn't have done what she did and no one would have died. I rival Merrill not because of what the Keeper preaches, but because I genuinely believe Merrill is messing with things she should have left alone a long time ago.

[congokong]

While it's true that the Keeper was an idiot, this is partly Merrill fault. Had she given up on the stupid mirror after so many people told her to, Marethari wouldn't have done what she did and no one would have died.

 

People are responsible for their own decisions. Someone being stupid out of response for something you do on your own doesn't make it your fault. Many discoveries/new outlooks throughout history have had roadblocks by others out of fear. Ex: religion has often stalled science. Should these people have just "given up" to avoid any potential conflict?

[Jaison1986]

People are responsible for their own decisions. Someone being stupid out of response for something you do on your own doesn't make it your fault. Many discoveries/new outlooks throughout history have had roadblocks by others out of fear. Ex: religion has often stalled science. Should these people have just "given up" to avoid any potential conflict?

 

It depends on the context. If I saw someone dear to me messing with radioactive material while having limited knowledge of it and likely to eventually die of radiation poisoning, I would do my best to stop them before they get themselves killed. And say, had religious groups stopped Einstein from creating the atomic bombs, wouldn't we have an good result from it?

[congokong]

It depends on the context. If I saw someone dear to me messing with radioactive material while having limited knowledge of it and likely to eventually die of radiation poisoning, I would do my best to stop them before they get themselves killed. And say, had religious groups stopped Einstein from creating the atomic bombs, wouldn't we have an good result from it?

The dangers of technology is a different discussion.  It was just a comparison. And Einstein didn't create the atomic bomb. As I recall he sent a recommendation to FDR pushing the Manhattan Project but had no direct involvement.

 

The radiation example is a little extreme. It would depend on the potential benefit if the risk was worth it. But accepting that premise, exposing yourself to radiation around the person you're trying to protect (and therefore endangering them) would be a good comparison to what Marethari did.

 

You may want to discourage others from doing something dangerous if you care about them, but in the end it's their potential mistake to make. You don't sabotage their efforts in such a horrid fashion. It's not like Merrill was about to leap off Sundermount because she thought she could fly and therefore had to be stopped for her own safety.

[Elhanan]

You may want to discourage others from doing something dangerous if you care about them, but in the end it's their potential mistake to make.

Agreed.

You don't sabotage their efforts in such a horrid fashion. It's not like Merrill was about to leap off Sundermount because she thought she could fly and therefore had to be stopped for her own safety.

Actually, it was almost exactly what this is like, except the resultant *thud* likely would have resulted in the deaths of everyone near there.

Still, wish the Dalish would have listened to their own teachings as closely as Hawke; would have also understood that killing the Keeper had to be done.

[congokong]

Actually, it was almost exactly what this is like, except the resultant *thud* likely would have resulted in the deaths of everyone near there.
 

 

Unless Merrill's success chance was 0% the situations are not the same; especially if she was supervised. Mages have dealt with demons before and not become abominations.

[Elhanan]

The monster on Sundermount was not a standard demon, and the area surrounding Kirkwall made possession more likely, as is illustrated in the remaining game. The Keeper made her choice as she saw best for Merrill and the remaining Dalish; possibly Kirkwall, too.

[Thomas Andresen]

The Keeper made her choice as she saw best for Merrill and the remaining Dalish; possibly Kirkwall, too.

That doesn't make her decision any more right. I suspect she'd already done it between year one and four. Mostly because I suspect the varteral's behaviour to be linked.

[IAMTHEOVERLORD]

That doesn't make her decision any more right. I suspect she'd already done it between year one and four. Mostly because I suspect the varteral's behaviour to be linked.

Yeah, that was one thing I didn't really like, they never explained why what should have been an elf loving bug went coco for cocoa puffs.

[congokong]

The monster on Sundermount was not a standard demon, and the area surrounding Kirkwall made possession more likely, as is illustrated in the remaining game. The Keeper made her choice as she saw best for Merrill and the remaining Dalish; possibly Kirkwall, too.

It was a pride demon. And now you're head-canoning things to strengthen your argument regarding areas prone to possession or whatever.

 

Regardless, Merrill's work with the mirror wasn't black/white (0% chance of success) despite what strange arguments you make.

[Elhanan]

If you mean by memory; Yes, as I played this again recently. One entry especially speaks to this troubled area:

http://dragonage.wik...ma_of_Kirkwall