248 réponses à ce sujet

[Liadan]

I choose Irenicus.

[Heimdall]

97 votes so far. If it gets to two hundred, I'll start feeling like it means something.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I've never been too enthralled by Bioware's villains. I like Irenicus the most out of all of 'em, but that's mostly due to David Warner's excellent voice acting.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Crap. I thought Maugrim is the leader of Lizard folk who was sympathy-able.

I change my vote to Sun Li.

[EarthboundNess]

Sorry, had to go with Harby. I know he's completely pointless (two games where he's built up to be the big bad, and all he does is trash talk through proxies and land in front of a beam) But I don't think highly of any of the other DA or ME villains and they're all I have to go off.

 

I do have a copy of Jade Empire lying around.... maybe I'll get around to playing that and change my vote.

[Heimdall]

Sorry, had to go with Harby. I know he's completely pointless (two games where he's built up to be the big bad, and all he does is trash talk through proxies and land in front of a beam) But I don't think highly of any of the other DA or ME villains and they're all I have to go off.

 

I do have a copy of Jade Empire lying around.... maybe I'll get around to playing that and change my vote.

[Elhanan]

Am a bit surprised to see Bhelen and Howe omitted from this list; disliked them even more than Loghain, though I consider the latter to have more depth.

[Heimdall]

Am a bit surprised to see Bhelen and Howe omitted from this list; disliked them even more than Loghain, though I consider the latter to have more depth.

I was mostly going for primary antagonists. Besides, Bhelen wasn't necessarily an antagonist.

[Elhanan]

I was mostly going for primary antagonists. Besides, Bhelen wasn't necessarily an antagonist.

Gotcha on the first part, but have to disagree on the second. Utilizing fratricide twice over to gain political power, bribery, lying, illegal criminal connections, etc makes him more than a candidate for this list. But it does my heart good to know that he would lose this prize, too....

[Heimdall]

Gotcha on the first part, but have to disagree on the second. Utilizing fratricide twice over to gain political power, bribery, lying, illegal criminal connections, etc makes him more than a candidate for this list. But it does my heart good to know that he would lose this prize, too....

Well, being an aweful person and being an antagonist aren't the same thing. The Warden can side with him, so technically he isn't an antagonist in that case.

[Ozzy]

Yeah, Bhelen's a dodgy piece of work but not necessarily antagonist to the Warden. The only case where he explicitly wrongs the Warden is if the Warden is of DN origin. 

[Pateu]

It's hard to choose, in Mass Effect.

 

Saren, Sovereign and TIM were all great.

[Heimdall]

It's hard to choose, in Mass Effect.

 

Saren, Sovereign and TIM were all great.

The first two were alright, but TIM, in ME3 when he was actually a direct antagonist?

[Mr.House]

Much as I loved Loghain, Arishok and Irenicus, they will never come close to Sun Li.

 

Sun Li was a fantastic, complex character that you knew was holding information and knew more then he was letting on, but his sudden betrayal was not only extremely well done, it did feel like a punch in the gut. He spouts fantastic quotes, his philology while brutal makes sense and can be justified(what mortal really wants to die a slow death because some god said so?) and  by being your teacher, there wast he sense that this guy was above your skill. He taught you all that you knew and held back on stuff so he could kill you when the time came, you only have a chance now because of the actions at Dirge.

 

I would love to see Bioware create another villain as great as Sun Li along with a main storyline the same quality as Jade Empire. Jade Empire had it's flaws but it's story and characters where utterly amazing.

[Heimdall]

Much as I loved Loghain, Arishok and Irenicus, they will never come close to Sun Li.

 

Sun Li was a fantastic, complex character that you knew was holding information and knew more then he was letting on, but his sudden betrayal was not only extremely well done, it did feel like a punch in the gut. He spouts fantastic quotes, his philology while brutal makes sense and can be justified(what mortal really wants to die a slow death because some god said so?) and  by being your teacher, there wast he sense that this guy was above your skill. He taught you all that you knew and held back on stuff so he could kill you when the time came, you only have a chance now because of the actions at Dirge.

"No great waves of energy, no demons from the walls.  Skill versus skill.  Master versus student."

[Chewin]

 

Who my favorite BW antagonist is? None other than Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir!

 

There's a lot I could say on why I find Loghain to be my favorite BW antagonist (and one of my favorite antagonist in gaming in general), but I rather keep this short, so I'll go and post the shorter version instead:

 

What I like in Loghain is that he is a rather a-typical character, because he is not inherently evil. In many ways Loghain is just compassionate about his country to the point of fanatical protection. Loghain began the game as a shady usurper to the throne who seemed to take advantage of a situation for his own goals. As we see throughout the events of Origins he is much deeper than that; his motives are benign for his people, not himself, despite how extreme they are. He is conflicted by these motivations at times, but Loghain constantly keeps them in line, putting the protection of the people from Orlais first, no matter how paranoid or misguided it may be. In the end, Loghain is not exactly a villain in the traditional sense of wanting power for his own ends. In actuality, all of his tactical moves to preserve Fereldens freedom result into a civil war within the country, something he laments towards the end of the Blight.

 

Loghain is very much a social conservative. He is proud of the Ferelden heritage he fought so hard to regain control of, and does not want to compromise it once again. His motivation is not to gain control of the throne nor to even let the Blight continue. His motivation is the preservation of his country. Other than his daughter Anora, he only wants to preserve Ferelden by any means, and for him the ends will justify his means, no matter how colored the perception may be. Most of this, mind you, is stemmed from a bitter hatred against Orlais. But it is this grudge that becomes his tragic flaw; it begins his own descent in hostilities against the very nation he tries to desperately protect, which is also escalated due to his horrible judge of character and lack of any real political skills.

 

Ultimately, Loghain Mac Tir is just a man from a different line of thinking, a socially and politically opposite to the protagonists in the game. This makes him your adversary, but not a true evil force. You can have compassion and pity for his actions as he slowly loses his grip on the situation, and you see it unravel as your player character gains control of things, including his own fate. Loghain is a fascinating look at how ideals can divide us and old grudges can twist these ideals into something malicious. He is a character with character because he is not a bad guy in the usual sense, but rather a man who chose the wrong side because of his past experiences, only to realize close to his own demise that he was wrong in that choice. 

 

EDIT: Unfortunately I haven'y played Jade Empire, so I can't comment on Sun Li, but I hope to be able to play it one day to finally experience him as an antagonist.

[Heimdall]

 

EDIT: Unfortunately I haven'y played Jade Empire, so I can't comment on Sun Li, but I hope to be able to play it one day to finally experience him as an antagonist.

 

Sadly, knowing that he's the antagonist lessens the experience, but its worth the ride.

[Chewin]

Yeah, I am aware of that. The gameplay experience changes very much when you know the reveal. Hence why I have never really bothered playing it.

[Feybrad]

While I generally had a divided Reaction to Dragon Age 2 I think, what most impressed me was the Fact, that they managed to make the Qun and the Mentality of the Qunari oddly sympathetic to me. In Fact, I liked the Arishok much better than any Companion the Game had to offer - he was equally annoyed as I was that I had to stay in that damned City all the Time and he managed to put in a Nutshell that everything going on in the City was Madness.

 

I had the Impression that Kirkwall would've been much better off if the Qunari had just stayed there and had brought order to the Chaos and the Madness. Furthermore, the Arishok easily outshines the Rest of the game's Antagonists, like Meredith, and proves to be a reasonable and loyal Person who finally snaps when the Madness turns on him. It is a Shame that Hawke could not cooperate with the Qunari if Isabela didn't come back.

 

But, what makes him the best BioWare Antagonist in my Opinion is, that he manages (due to his oddly respectful Attitude and brutal Honesty) to make the Qun appealing to People, who would've dismissed it as just another evil Religion. In Kirkwall it genuinely seemed to be the Option - that sadly was not available. Frankly, I don't see the Arishok as a real Villain. Antagonist yes, but not an outright Villain.

 

For me, Hawke was the Hero Kirkwall deserved, but not the One it needed back then. That was the Arishok. Sadly, it didn't turn out as where I stole that Quote from.

[mybudgee]

This thread has revealed a glaring number of RPG/Biower fans who have neglected to play Jade Empire. For shame...

[Elhanan]

I have yet to play the BG series; cannot get past the antiquated party mechanics, and the Enhanced Ed evidently uses them, too. But I should get pts for owning the series; twice in fact.

[JediMindTrix]

 

That is why I chose Irenicus ^

[JediMindTrix]

I have yet to play the BG series; cannot get past the antiquated party mechanics, and the Enhanced Ed evidently uses them, too. But I should get pts for owning the series; twice in fact.

 

I find modern party mechanics to be -dumbed down- when compared to games like Baldur's Gate. S'pose I love to micromanage.

[Mike3207]

Loghain has to be the choice for me.

[fchopin]

I voted for Arishok but I have not played any of the old games so don't know what they had.