248 réponses à ce sujet

[azrael_1289]

I... I do not remember your love, Ellesime. I have tried. I have tried to recreate it, to spark it anew in my memory, but it is gone... a hollow, dead thing. For years, I clung to the memory of it. Then the memory of the memory. And then nothing. The Seldarine took that from me, too. I look upon you and feel nothing. I remember nothing but you turning your back on me, along with all the others. Once my thirst for power was everything. And now I hunger only for revenge. And I... WILL... HAVE IT!!

-Jon Irenicus

 

Brings back memories

[Ryzaki]

Gotta go with Irenicus. Master Li came really close though.

[SwobyJ]

Ok I deleted my vote but voted for Sovvy again.

 

 

In terms of games I checked KOTOR onwards (didn't really play BG and NWN yet, even though they're installed), but I'm only in the middle of my Dragon Age playthroughs. I just know enough about them and watched enough of their scenes that I THINK I know where I stand on the villains. At least so far.

 

I've played Mass Effect 1-2 to bits, finished KOTOR twice (might try again sometime), and got more than 2/3 through Jade Empire and know the twist there.

 

This is just me saying that my Sovereign vote may change, but for now it sticks. I probably won't pick a NWN or BG option though, even if I change my mind.

[r12crown]

Sun Li without any doubt. If the poll was who was the best antagonist in any game you ever plaid, Master Li would be an easy choice.

[Seival]

Why The Catalyst isn't listed?

[SwobyJ]

Why The Catalyst isn't listed?

 

Who?

[Heimdall]

Why The Catalyst isn't listed?

WE DO DO NOT SPEAK OF IT!

Seriously though, I considered the Illusive Man a better choice because he's actually around, impeding you throughout the game whereas the Catalyst "wakes up" at the last minute to rattle off exposition.

[caradoc2000]

Why The Catalyst isn't listed?

He isn't an antagonist, he wants to save life

 

You know: "I kill you because I care"

[Gotholhorakh]

Irenicus, definitely.

 

Can't help a passing affection for Loghain for featuring in what I think was probably the last BioWare RPG worth playing, but Irenicus was menacing.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

I would play Jade Empire if it came out on PSN OTL

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

I would play Jade Empire if it came out on PSN OTL

[Heimdall]

I would play Jade Empire if it came out on PSN OTL

It was an Xbox game, so, unlikely.  You could get it for PC though, it's an old game so it doesn't require a very powerful machine.

[Fabio_R]

Saren.

[Seival]

WE DO DO NOT SPEAK OF IT!

Seriously though, I considered the Illusive Man a better choice because he's actually around, impeding you throughout the game whereas the Catalyst "wakes up" at the last minute to rattle off exposition.

 

Let me explain.

 

I don't actually like antagonists, I dislike them for obvious reason - they are antagonists. This rule works for me with only one exception. I like the antagonsits who have noble goals, but I still dislike them for their choice of methods. It doesn't matter The Catalyst was introduced in the last 20 minutes of the game. What matters is its noble goal, unacceptable method of achieveing this goal (cycled harvests), and the scale of its influence. Besides, this character's existance was completely unpredictable till the very end, and provided very interesting turn of events. And when in the end we start to understand that according to the story The Catalyst's methods led to the birth of Humanity, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan, and so on... This is why The Catalyst is probably my favorite antagonist of all times. It as much creates life as it destroys it, like our dear mother nature.

[SwobyJ]

I don't think people want to consider that humanity might have never existed if it wasn't for ReaperGod. That destroying the Reapers actually will prevent a great many species from reaching a prominence in the galaxy.

 

Last Cycle if the Prothians kept going, Humanity would have been subjects of them, at best.

 

Or I guess we could have kicked their asses. Maybe. Probably not.

 

It also depends if the Prothians were actively experimenting on early humans or just observing.

 

 

Anyway my point is that for all the crap the harvest brings, it possibly brought an element of stability to the galaxy that was never seen before the Reapers. But that's guessing. We really would need more clear information from Bioware to push that idea beyond 'coulda maybe possibly'.

[Heimdall]

Let me explain.

 

I don't actually like antagonists, I dislike them for obvious reason - they are antagonists. This rule works for me with only one exception. I like the antagonsits who have noble goals, but I still dislike them for their choice of methods. It doesn't matter The Catalyst was introduced in the last 20 minutes of the game. What matters is its noble goal, unacceptable method of achieveing this goal (cycled harvests), and the scale of its influence. Besides, this character's existance was completely unpredictable till the very end, and provided very interesting turn of events. And when in the end we start to understand that according to the story The Catalyst's methods led to the birth of Humanity, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan, and so on... This is why The Catalyst is probably my favorite antagonist of all times. It as much creates life as it destroys it, like our dear mother nature.

That's all well and good, but the Catalyst mostly fails as an antagonist for me because all the things you just described are only introduced at the last possible moment.  They were jarring, but not in a way that convinced me see the conflict in a new light.  There simply wasn't enough build up for me to give much credit to the Catalyst as an antagonist.

 

Its sort of the same problem Loghain suffered from really, too little too late.  I've spent three games with the story giving me every reason to see the Reapers as morally repugnant irredeemable evil trying to kill us all.  Trying to contradict that at the last minute felt like a feeble effort.

[Cyonan]

Let me explain.

 

I don't actually like antagonists, I dislike them for obvious reason - they are antagonists. This rule works for me with only one exception. I like the antagonsits who have noble goals, but I still dislike them for their choice of methods. It doesn't matter The Catalyst was introduced in the last 20 minutes of the game. What matters is its noble goal, unacceptable method of achieveing this goal (cycled harvests), and the scale of its influence. Besides, this character's existance was completely unpredictable till the very end, and provided very interesting turn of events. And when in the end we start to understand that according to the story The Catalyst's methods led to the birth of Humanity, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan, and so on... This is why The Catalyst is probably my favorite antagonist of all times. It as much creates life as it destroys it, like our dear mother nature.

 

The main issue I have with the catalyst isn't so much what it's trying to do, but rather the reasoning that it gave to us as to why it's trying to do it.

 

Part of the problem is that Mass Effect 3 is all about unity. We're all coming together to fight the Reapers and the entire game is pretty much spent in getting everybody to play nice which includes the Geth and the Quarians, a conflict that was started by the organic Quarians.

 

but then suddenly star child shows up and goes "Nope. Machines and organics can't work together. The organics will just get slaughtered" even though I just made peace between machines and organics with the Geth/Quarian thing. There's very little explanation offered here and it ultimately comes off as a "I'm right you're wrong lalalalalala I'm not listening" kind of argument.

 

There's also no talk of potential other solutions beyond Reapers and the Crucible and no explanation as to why the Reapers were the best available solution at the time.

 

He might have worked better as a character if they didn't introduce him in the last 20 minutes of the game because he would have had more time to get dialogue in so that everything could have been explained better(even though it technically was supposed to be a thing we could not comprehend =P) rather than being left with what seemed like the most illogical AI ever created. Even with the EC, I think that the Catalyst just didn't get enough screen time in order to be given the chance to develop into a good antagonist.

 

I'd also make the argument that the Catalyst did not create life as much as it gave it room to advance and evolve. Even without that, one can't entirely make the argument that the species of our cycle 100% for sure wouldn't have advanced without their help into whatever galactic community they had, either better or worse.

[Seival]

Well, anyhow, I believe we all can agree that The Catalyst is an antagonist created for one of BioWare stories. This means it can be listed in the poll, so I could finally vote

 

OP, if you will decide to add The Catalyst into the list, please do not forget the antagonist's correct name according to the story is The Catalyst.

[Heimdall]

Well, anyhow, I believe we all can agree that The Catalyst is an antagonist created for one of BioWare stories. This means it can be listed in the poll, so I could finally vote

 

OP, if you will decide to add The Catalyst into the list, please do not forget the antagonist's correct name according to the story is The Catalyst.

...fiiiiine 

[Seival]

...fiiiiine 

 

Thanks

 

Voted.

[Mira]

I voted for Saren (I coaxed him to commit a suicide. And then I had to fight his mechanical corpse. Now that's what I call dedication.)

 

I also keep Malak (that guy just didn't want to die) and Sarevok (I had to buy a freaking wand of summoning to kill him) deep in my heart.

 

Where is Marauder Shields??!!

[r12crown]

Marauder Shields was a good guy, he tried to shield you from the endings, thats not an antagonist

[sikayata]

Definitely Sun Li for me. I don't think I'd ever felt so betrayed by a character in a game. It kinda blew me away with his betrayal. Like, dude, come on. I cured an entire forest for you. Give me a break.

[Heimdall]

Marauder Shields was a good guy, he tried to shield you from the endings, thats not an antagonist

A tragic hero who ultimately failed, but with a valiant effort!

[r12crown]

Marauder Shields defeated my Shep. Never saw the endings, or maybe i have selective amnesia