301 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

I can see why a spirit of serial murder would be drawn to a bioware protagonist and his merry band of companions, though.

 

All this seems like a bit of an overreaction considering the track record of so many other characters who aren't treated with such disgust. "What's the most pieces you've ever cut someone into in a single swing? I'm up to three, but I have some ideas."

 

I'm partial to characters who used to be terrible people but have reformed. See: Isabela. I have more reason to condemn Isabela to death than Cole. But I save her from the Arishok.

 

Edit: Just in case someone doesn't know of/hasn't read the comics, Isabela threw slaves she was transporting overboard so her ship would be light enough to escape pursuit. She swore to never smuggle slaves again, and the next time they tried to sneak some on her ship she freed them. My Hawke wouldn't kill her now for that previous action, and my Inquisitor won't kill Cole for what he did before.

[leaguer of one]

So if a serial killer joined to the Samaritans helpline and convinced desperate vulnerable individuals to let him/her murder them that would be ok?

Cole never convinced anyone to let him kill them. The only time he tried to convince anyone he was attracted to kill he tried to convince them to live. He did that twice.

[Heimdall]

So if a serial killer joined to the Samaritans helpline and convinced desperate vulnerable individuals to let him/her murder them that would be ok?

He didn't convince them they wanted to die.  In fact, if I recall, it was the preexisting desire that drew him.

[HuldraDancer]

Pardon my lack of knowledge here but I'm still pretty confused about Cole, is he a spirit that's possessing a body (dead or otherwise), a demon doing the same thing, a ghost?  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Pardon my lack of knowledge here but I'm still pretty confused about Cole, is he a spirit that's possessing a body (dead or otherwise), a demon doing the same thing, a ghost?  

He is some sort of spirit, and he is not possessing a body.

[leaguer of one]

It's very relevant. She didn't want to die. She just didn't want to live, likely very nearly as briefly, in agony. This 'option' Cole presents, isn't really an option at all. That it rationalizes it as a form of compassion is all the more monstrous.

No it's not. She literally did not want to live. As I pointed out before, there was a similar case in the book at the fort they went to with a girl who lost her friends and family who went half mad for despair. She really did not have much to live for. And in that case when she chose to live.

 

If you are trying to say the choice the girl in the tower to allow Cole to kill her is not validated because she was in a state of despair with no hope, you missing the fact here that another girl was in the same circumstances and choose to live. 

[Ineedaname]

I just read Colevorkian's interview... I did not know he was written by Patrick Weekes .... At least the game version. It seems he is expanding or continuing Colevorkian's story. I am really intrigued now. The Vivienne banter alone will be worth of the price of a ticket... And just imagining Varric's banter and nickname...

[HuldraDancer]

He is some sort of spirit, and he is not possessing a body.

So a spirit in physical form living outside the fade then? I knew that could kind of happen with demons but I didn't know it could with spirits though I guess it makes sense that both could go outside the fade if one could.

[CronoDragoon]

Pardon my lack of knowledge here but I'm still pretty confused about Cole, is he a spirit that's possessing a body (dead or otherwise), a demon doing the same thing, a ghost?  

 

He's a demon/spirit that has somehow physically manifested in our world after crossing over from the Fade. From Asunder we know it was drawn to a boy named Cole who was suffering in a Circle pit, forgotten by the templars. The demon/spirit consoled Cole until the boy died and was cremated to cover the crime of negligence. After that, it's sort of fuzzy (whether in my mind or purposefully so) but a physical entity identifying itself as Cole stalked the White Spire Circle Tower invisible (and those who could see him forget him soon after departing from him).

[Fortlowe]

He didn't convince them they wanted to die.  In fact, if I recall, it was the preexisting desire that drew him.

Suicidal thoughts are just that: thoughts. A state of mind. Everyone is susceptible when they are low enough. However, more frequently than not, that state of mind passes with time. Time being something children especially have in spades normally. Cole robbed them of that chance to feed his own desires.

[leaguer of one]

So a spirit in physical form living outside the fade then? I knew that could kind of happen with demons but I didn't know it could with spirits though I guess it makes sense that both could go outside the fade if one could.

Spirits and demons are the same thing. The difference is motivation.

[HuldraDancer]

He's a demon/spirit that has somehow physically manifested in our world after crossing over from the Fade. From Asunder we know it was drawn to a boy named Cole who was suffering in a Circle pit, forgotten by the templars. The demon/spirit consoled Cole until the boy died and was cremated to cover the crime of negligence. After that, it's sort of fuzzy (whether in my mind or purposefully so) but a physical entity identifying itself as Cole stalked the White Spire Circle Tower invisible (and those who could see him forget him soon after departing from him).

So it never says if he's a spirit or a demon then? I'm guessing spirit since he's a companion but it could be either or I suppose.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So a spirit in physical form living outside the fade then? I knew that could kind of happen with demons but I didn't know it could with spirits though I guess it makes sense that both could go outside the fade if one could.

Pretty much, yeah. He is out first Shade(by that I mean Fade dweller living in world without possessing something) companion. 

[leaguer of one]

Suicidal thoughts are just that: thoughts. A state of mind. Everyone is susceptible when they are low enough. However, more frequently than not, that state of mind passes with time. Time being something children especially have in spades normally. Cole robbed them of that chance to feed his own desires.

But he didn't convince anyone to let him kill them. He just showed up and the people allowed him to kill them.

[HuldraDancer]

Spirits and demons are the same thing. The difference is motivation.

That depends on who you're asking though I just mean by the definition that they give for Spirits and Demons in Thedas that's it. Since I know everyone is going to have different opinions on it and I don't want to start a heated debate with it  so I'm just wondering if it says flat out which one Cole is or if it's kept more in the shadows to let people come to their own conclusions.

[Fortlowe]

No it's not. She literally did not want to live. As I pointed out before, there was a similar case in the book at the fort they went to with a girl who lost her friends and family who went half mad for despair. She really did not have much to live for. And in that case when she chose to live.

 

If you are trying to say the choice the girl in the tower to allow Cole to kill her is not validated because she was in a state of despair with no hope, you missing the fact here that another girl was in the same circumstances and choose to live. 

So one out of two ain't bad is your argument? Not very sturdy. Or accurate. She did not want to die. She was only in terrible pain and despair and Cole seized upon that womb like the parasite it is. One victim succumbed to its infection. Another did not. This does not prove that the disease is somehow benign, however.

[wright1978]

Suicidal thoughts are just that: thoughts. A state of mind. Everyone is susceptible when they are low enough. However, more frequently than not, that state of mind passes with time. Time being something children especially have in spades normally. Cole robbed them of that chance to feed his own desires.

Yeah exactly why I find him so distasteful, preying on the vulnerable, who weren't in a state of mind to think rationally.

[Russian Berserker]

That depends on who you're asking though I just mean by the definition that they give for Spirits and Demons in Thedas that's it. Since I know everyone is going to have different opinions on it and I don't want to start a heated debate with it  so I'm just wondering if it says flat out which one Cole is or if it's kept more in the shadows to let people come to their own conclusions.

justice would like to have a word with you 

[CronoDragoon]

That depends on who you're asking though I just mean by the definition that they give for Spirits and Demons in Thedas that's it. Since I know everyone is going to have different opinions on it and I don't want to start a heated debate with it  so I'm just wondering if it says flat out which one Cole is or if it's kept more in the shadows to let people come to their own conclusions.

 

It doesn't say flat-out, and indeed one of the points of Cole's character in Asunder was to make Rhys question just how much we know about the Fade, including our ideas about demons vs. spirits. It's left unsaid on purpose, I think. The closest we can come to identification is that a spell that is supposed to only work against blood magic and demons worked against Cole, and he isn't a blood mage. But it's also unclear whether it would have worked on a spirit, too, I think.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That depends on who you're asking though I just mean by the definition that they give for Spirits and Demons in Thedas that's it. Since I know everyone is going to have different opinions on it and I don't want to start a heated debate with it  so I'm just wondering if it says flat out which one Cole is or if it's kept more in the shadows to let people come to their own conclusions.

As Patrick says in the interview, he is somewhere on that spectrum. But no, there is no concrete Word of God that says he is a Demon or a Spirit. 

[Tattia]

And that perspective is appreciated. Still, it was there to end her life before it knew about what she did. Her being a murderer had no bearing on its purpose.

 It's not like HE stalked his "victims" and killed them. HE was drawn to her specifically, because of the feelings/emotions she was projecting. HE was always drawn to the people HE killed for the same reason. HE didn't kill Pharamond who begged to be killed. HE refused because HE promised Rhys HE wouldn't kill anymore. 

[leaguer of one]

So one out of two ain't bad is your argument? Not very sturdy. Or accurate. She did not want to die. She was only in terrible pain and despair and Cole seized upon that womb like the parasite it is. One victim succumbed to its infection. Another did not. This does not prove that the disease is somehow benign, however.

Wrong. She wanted to die. The only reason why she did not allow Cole to killer is because Cole offered a hand of Comfort. You point is that suicidal thought are like weights put on a persons back and it can come to a time that a straw of hay on the top is all that need to break the persons back. But what you're missing here is that Cole does not add or take away from the weight. He did nothing to convince the girl in the tower she need to die. She allowed him to kill her.

[leaguer of one]

Yeah exactly why I find him so distasteful, preying on the vulnerable, who weren't in a state of mind to think rationally.

You point is that suicidal thought are like weights put on a persons back and it can come to a time that a straw of hay on the top is all that need to break the persons back. But what you're missing here is that Cole does not add or take away from the weight. He did nothing to convince the girl in the tower she need to die. She allowed him to kill her.

 

If he added nothing to that weight, why is he at fault if they want to die?

[Fortlowe]

So giving a suicidal child a gun isn't adding some weight to those thoughts. More accurately, offering to do the deed for the child isn't applying pressure? I think it is.

[Tattia]

No it doesn't. Imagine it showed its particular brand of 'mercy' to your child. You're little brother or sister. Then it said "Whoops! That was just a misunderstanding. Wow I'm soooo embarassed! I'll never do anything like that again, that's for sure! Can you forgive me? I'm so earnest and pitifull... "

Well I would be dead if that was my sister because she would have willfully killed me and my entire family. You're saying people cant be redeemed or forgiven the crimes they've committed.