642 réponses à ce sujet

[SGT NOOBSTER]

Ashley's not racist. She's not even really xenophobic. I never did understand the vitriol that surrounded her in ME1.

 

The remarks people like to call her out on are 100% justifiable. Her entire family is scarred by her grandfather's actions in the First Contact War, actions which had to happen to same human lives from a then relatively unknown alien race, and the subsequent shame cast onto his family line.

 

It's really when you first start getting to know her that she is the most untrusting of alien species and when you talk to her you understand why. And considering how many times humans are stepped on in ME by different alien races, heck by how many times other alien races are discriminated by others (such as the Krogan) it's completely understandable why she would be so defensive for her own race who are still a fledging species in space travel in the galaxy compared to others.

 

I say she's not xenophobic because whilst she does say remarks that are untrusting of other species, she doesn't hate them and isn't scared of them. She grows to love the alien crew members she has, even going so far as to remark that Tali is a little sister to her (which is obviously major because of how devoted she is to family). She's also untrusting about humans and when she sees humans who are very discriminatory to aliens she's affronted by them.

 

Really all she is is a person who finds it hard to trust unknown variables. Her grandfather's persecution really is the main cause of this, but in ME1 you can clearly see her taking off those tinted glasses and seeing the potential in other species.

 

I have to agree with this. I will add my own point of view though, most members of any military are hesitant to begin working freely with a new ally. It takes time to form trust and to begin sharing ideas, tactics, intel, whatever. I would venture a guess to say that there are Turians that have similiar feelings to Ashley, they are being thrust into a new aliiance with a unknown.

 

I takes time to build trust, which is all that Ash is having issues with. Like she says in ME1 (paraphrasing) "If something happens they will look after their own first." Now when does this happen? Oh, right ME3. Every species is "No we can't help you, even if you have a plan, unless you help solve our problems first."

 

Ash is not a racist/ speciest; she just will not place blind trust in anyone.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I have to agree with this. I will add my own point of view though, most members of any military are hesitant to begin working freely with a new ally. It takes time to form trust and to begin sharing ideas, tactics, intel, whatever. I would venture a guess to say that there are Turians that have similiar feelings to Ashley, they are being thrust into a new aliiance with a unknown.

 

I takes time to build trust, which is all that Ash is having issues with. Like she says in ME1 (paraphrasing) "If something happens they will look after their own first." Now when does this happen? Oh, right ME3. Every species is "No we can't help you, even if you have a plan, unless you help solve our problems first."

 

Ash is not a racist/ speciest; she just will not place blind trust in anyone.

 

As I said to Nuclear, read my response to that. It's in the last few pages.

 

Basically, I think it's a bunch of bullhonkey

[Barquiel]

Xil, do you just want the Alliance and Human governments to merge with the Asari and get it over with?
 
 
EDIT: And I say this as someone who has the ultimate view that the whole galaxy should unite into one, mind you. I also am not as scared of an IRL world government as many others are.

Well, there is at least one colony which is colonized by both asari and humans...it apparently works there

Asteria: A habitable planet known for its arid sulfurous deserts, Asteria is colonized near the poles to avoid the uncomfortable temperatures that can reach 65 degrees Celsius in more southern latitudes. While the seas contain primitive animal life, little of it can live on land, leaving the soil to hardy plants that can survive in the extreme heat. Asteria is home to thriving human and asari agrarian colonies but little in the way of manufacturing or mining.

[Xilizhra]

Funny how out of that whole huge post, the Asari are the only ones you jump in to defend.

Theirs had the most blatant fallacy of association. While "the turians" and "the batarians" could be loosely interpreted to mean their governments as a whole taking public action, that didn't apply at all to the asari.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Theirs had the most blatant fallacy of association. While "the turians" and "the batarians" could be loosely interpreted to mean their governments as a whole taking public action, that didn't apply at all to the asari.

 

This is an excuse in terms for positive bias/prejudice in favor of the Asari. Your point is struck down.

[Xilizhra]

This is an excuse in terms for positive bias/prejudice in favor of the Asari. Your point is struck down.

Thank you for your arbitrary declaration, though I don't entirely know why it's there.

 

Really? So its ok for the Asari to withhold the beacon until the last minute because they were under attack? They didn't care about anybody else. How many lives would've/could've been saved had they revealed the artifact earlier? Plus its against policy to withhold any Prothean information.

All I'm saying is that blaming an entire society of trillions for something that maybe twenty people knew about is... well, it seems a bit silly to me.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

As I said to Nuclear, read my response to that. It's in the last few pages.

 

Basically, I think it's a bunch of bullhonkey

 

The arguement? Or believing whether or not she is/ is not a racist?

[SGT NOOBSTER]

All I'm saying is that blaming an entire society of trillions for something that maybe twenty people knew about is... well, it seems a bit silly to me.

 

How do you think wars start?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

All I'm saying is that blaming an entire society of trillions for something that maybe twenty people knew about is... well, it seems a bit silly to me.

 

And yet you just said that 'the Turians' and 'the Batarians' could be loosely interpreted to mean the government, you take particular offense at the mention of the Asari. That's a prejudiced bias towards them. Your point is a non sequiter. It is irrelevant.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The arguement? Or believing whether or not she is/ is not a racist?

 

Both.

[Xilizhra]

How do you think wars start?

What's your point?

 

 

And yet you just said that 'the Turians' and 'the Batarians' could be loosely interpreted to mean the government, you take particular offense at the mention of the Asari. That's a prejudiced bias towards them. Your point is a non sequiter. It is irrelevant.

So you'd like me to clarify that the mention of the other two species in such broad strokes is also wrong? Very well, the mention of the other two species in such broad strokes is also wrong, especially in the case of the turians, whose Hierarchy has never shown genocidal tendencies to my knowledge.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

Both.

 

YAY!! I am going off the assumption that you are tired of the arguement, no matter how valid certain points might be.

 

But this raises another question, why are you posting here anyway then? To catch people's ire?

[SGT NOOBSTER]

What's your point?

 

 

My point is, wars have been fought over what is essientially how people perceive an entire ethnicity or race. Even if the ideas that are hated are only the ideas of a few in leadership positions.

[Xilizhra]

My point is, wars have been fought over what is essientially how people perceive an entire ethnicity or race. Even if the ideas that are hated are only the ideas of a few in leadership positions.

I don't disagree... but that's a pretty terrible reason for wars starting.

[themikefest]

 

All I'm saying is that blaming an entire society of trillions for something that maybe twenty people knew about is... well, it seems a bit silly to me.

You don't know it was only twenty Asari or not? Doesn't matter. They messed up by not revealing it. They also broke the law by not informing anyone they had a Prothean artifact on their planet. They didn't care about the other species, they only cared about staying number 1.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

YAY!! I am going off the assumption that you are tired of the arguement, no matter how valid certain points might be.

 

But this raises another question, why are you posting here anyway then? To catch people's ire?

 

I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if that's what you're saying. I know how valid certain points are. That's why I posted them.

 

Your post suggests you're trying to do this, mainly in a possible way to silence opposition and argument that Ashley is a bad person. I'm posting here because I can. Why are you?

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if that's what you're saying. I know how valid certain points are. That's why I posted them.

 

Your post suggests you're trying to do this, mainly in a possible way to silence opposition and argument that Ashley is a bad person. I'm posting here because I can. Why are you?

 

I was only curious about your reasons nothing more. And I have not gone back and read pages 1-10, I just started when I found the topic.

 

And my standing is with supporting Ash; I do not, and will not, ever believe she is a racist/ speceist. It is not how I see her character. (But that is the fantastic thing about characters, they can be interpreted in different ways, by different people, with different backgrounds.)

 

For your final question- so am I, and for supporting a character that I like.

 

Does it matter if she's racists? Despite how ironic that could be, Asshley is our girl. Whether we blow her up on virmire, sleep with her, or continue to tell her how incompetent she is, she's our Asshley of the Normandy. Every ship needs an asshley. OP, be my Asshley an I'll be your commander Shepard.

 

I see what you did there. Unless the extra S was an accident.

[Xilizhra]

You don't know it was only twenty Asari or not? Doesn't matter. They messed up by not revealing it. They also broke the law by not informing anyone they had a Prothean artifact on their planet. They didn't care about the other species, they only cared about staying number 1.

Well, yes, criticize those twenty or so all you like. I'll be there with you.

[themikefest]

Well, yes, criticize those twenty or so all you like. I'll be there with you.

Prove to me  only 20 knew. If it had been humanity hiding that artifact you would be the first to demand punishment of some sort regardless of how many knew.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I was only curious about your reasons nothing more. And I have not gone back and read pages 1-10, I just started when I found the topic.

 

And my standing is with supporting Ash; I do not, and will not, ever believe she is a racist/ speceist. It is not how I see her character. (But that is the fantastic thing about characters, they can be interpreted in different ways, by different people, with different backgrounds.)

 

For your final question- so am I, and for supporting a character that I like.

 

 

That seems like an argument to informed ignorance and denial. 'Nothing you say can ever change my mind!' 

[Nuclear]

That seems like an argument to informed ignorance and denial. 'Nothing you say can ever change my mind!' 

And that seems like bait set to antagonise a person for believing in their own views.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And that seems like bait set to antagonise a person for believing in their own views.

 

I am antagonizing a person for believing in a philosophy that does not encourage the acceptance of evidence. It's hardly baiting unless you want to look at it like that. 

[Nuclear]

I am antagonizing a person for believing in a philosophy that does not encourage the acceptance of evidence. It's hardly baiting unless you want to look at it like that. 

Amazing, you actually admit to antagonizing a person for their beliefs.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I am antagonizing a person for believing in a philosophy that does not encourage the acceptance of evidence. It's hardly baiting unless you want to look at it like that. 

 

Interpretation, that is all the evidence is. People see things in different ways, that is why there are people that love Ashley, are indifferent, or hate her. For some it changes depending on their mood. This can be applied to anything, not just Ashley and ME.