642 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Amazing, you actually admit to antagonizing a person for their beliefs.

 

No, I admit to antagonizing a person for lack of critical thought to their beliefs.

[Xilizhra]

Prove to me  only 20 knew. If it had been humanity hiding that artifact you would be the first to demand punishment of some sort regardless of how many knew.

Logically speaking, such a conspiracy would have to be both tiny and very tightly controlled to survive for thousands of years. Not only does information in an information-age society have a way of leaking on its own, especially in a democratic and free-media society like the Asari Republics, the asari have the salarians breathing down their neck; they have the best spies in the galaxy and have plans for preemptive strikes on all the galaxy's other species should it become necessary, and any salarian on Thessia could explain away their presence by saying they're someone's bondmate. On top of that, you have the Shadow Broker, whose information network might, somehow, be even greater than the STG's. There are so very many ways for information to fail to stay private in the galaxy that every possible means would had to have been taken to keep the Prothean cache a secret, and that'd mean that the conspiracy would have to have been small enough for everyone to know and trust each other personally.

[themikefest]

Logically speaking, such a conspiracy would have to be both tiny and very tightly controlled to survive for thousands of years. Not only does information in an information-age society have a way of leaking on its own, especially in a democratic and free-media society like the Asari Republics, the asari have the salarians breathing down their neck; they have the best spies in the galaxy and have plans for preemptive strikes on all the galaxy's other species should it become necessary, and any salarian on Thessia could explain away their presence by saying they're someone's bondmate. On top of that, you have the Shadow Broker, whose information network might, somehow, be even greater than the STG's. There are so very many ways for information to fail to stay private in the galaxy that every possible means would had to have been taken to keep the Prothean cache a secret, and that'd mean that the conspiracy would have to have been small enough for everyone to know and trust each other personally.

Still doesn't prove anything. You can defend the asari all you want , but the fact remains they messed up big time by not revealing that artifact and the other species will view them differently because of it.

 

Would you post that wall of text if humanity had they did the same? 

[Livi14]

What does this have to do with anything? Neither Ashley nor anyone else blamed the asari after the mission on Thessia, simply because they couldn't have possibly known what they have in their beacon. If anything, it shows how Ashley had trust issues with other aliens at the beginning, but eventually grew out of it.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

Still doesn't prove anything. You can defend the asari all you want , but the fact remains they messed up big time by not revealing that artifact and the other species will view them differently because of it.

 

I don't think he is defending the Asari. Just the idea that only a few high ranking members would have the knowledge of the artifact to begin with. I could be mistaken, that is just how I understand it.

 

And Livi14 has a point.

[Xilizhra]

Still doesn't prove anything. You can defend the asari all you want , but the fact remains they messed up big time by not revealing that artifact and the other species will view them differently because of it.

 

Would you post that wall of text if humanity had they did the same? 

I wouldn't have to, because absolutely no one would be ascribing it to the entirety of humanity.

 

I don't think he is defending the Asari. Just the idea that only a few high ranking members would have the knowledge of the artifact to begin with. I could be mistaken, that is just how I understand it.

She. But yes.

[DeinonSlayer]

hmm? I don't recall Ashley having a problem with Anderson & Steve. An her voice actor is black.  How the heck is she racist? This threads title makes no sense.

Just wanted to pop in and mention, being black does not preclude one from being racist. Not by a long shot. Anyone of any race can be.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Nope. You have a whole race of mary-sues, go back to them.

You're talking about Mary Sues, Massively?

[DeinonSlayer]

Thought I'd post some pictures:


Kimberley Brooks (Ashley Williams)


Ash Sroka (Tali'Zorah)


Yvonne Strahovski (Miranda Lawson)


Courtenay Taylor (Jack)


Maggie Baird (Samara)


Ali Hillis (Liara T'Soni)


Cara Pifko (Kelly Chambers)


Alix Wilton Regan (Samantha Traynor)


Jessica Chobot (Diana Allers) (Could've used the infamous PSP pic, but thought better of it)

[Hazegurl]

Um, saying "the asari" did that is about as accurate as saying "the humans tried to exterminate the Jews." Less, really.

 I don't even want to think about whether or not you view the Jewish people as human beings.

 

Back to Mass Effect...

 

From what we do know of the council is that they represent their entire species as whole whether chosen by the people or government. Whether you like it or not they represent everyone. If the Asari didn't like it, they were well within their rights to question it and oppose it.

[Xilizhra]

 I don't even want to think about whether or not you view the Jewish people as human beings.

 

Back to Mass Effect...

 

From what we do know of the council is that they represent their entire species as whole whether chosen by the people or government. Whether you like it or not they represent everyone. If the Asari didn't like it, they were well within their rights to question it and oppose it.

The asari didn't know.

[Hazegurl]

The asari didn't know.

Ignorance is no excuse.

 

And anyway my entire point is that Ashley is a bigot in a sea of other bigots. And yes the Asari have displayed bigoted behavior. Heck they're bigoted towards each other.

[Xilizhra]

Ignorance is no excuse.

That is insane. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but no asari outside the tiny conspiracy ever committed any action to break the law, or knowingly supported those who did. You can't be charged as an accessory if you had no way of knowing you were helping any criminals.

[themikefest]

That is insane. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but no asari outside the tiny conspiracy ever committed any action to break the law, or knowingly supported those who did. You can't be charged as an accessory if you had no way of knowing you were helping any criminals.

Yes you can unless you have evidence proving otherwise.

[Hazegurl]

 

Additionally, Ashley doesn't just not trust aliens.  She has a hard time trusting ANYONE, including her superior officers.  Combine that with the reality of the Normandy's status as a top secret prototype ship, and why SHOULDN'T she be reluctant to trust the aliens on board?

I can understand her not trusting Tali, Wrex, and Liara. But...Garrus?? The ship was a Human-Turian venture. What could he gain by being onboard that his superiors didn't already know? I couldn't help but give Ash the side eye when she brought that up while Garrus was across the room. lol!

[Livi14]

Ignorance is no excuse.
 
And anyway my entire point is that Ashley is a bigot in a sea of other bigots. And yes the Asari have displayed bigoted behavior. Heck they're bigoted towards each other.

And every single character in the game except maybe Javik disagrees with this viewpoint, including Ashley in Mass Effect 3.

[Nuclear]

The Asari government and the priviliged few Matriarchs are the only ones you can hold accountable for the Asari's withholding of the Prothean Beacon. Most Asari would never have known about it, believing their race developed ahead of the others entirely by their own merits. Liara's shock should have told you that, she's the Shadow Broker and Matriarch Benezia's daughter and not even she knew.

 

 

I can understand her not trusting Tali, Wrex, and Liara. But...Garrus?? The ship was a Human-Turian venture. What could he gain by being onboard that his superiors didn't already know? I couldn't help but give Ash the side eye when she brought that up while Garrus was across the room. lol!

Because even though the ship was a Human-Turian venture, that didn't mean the Turians knew everything about how the Alliance runs a ship and it's regs within. It's like how Humans don't know everything about how Turians run their ships.

[Han Shot First]

No.

 

Ashley can be short-tempered and occasionally puts her foot in her mouth, but she isn't a racist. If you bring her along to the Terra Firma rally she is more hostile towards them than even your alien squadmates, and makes it clear that she finds their racist political platform offensive. Also in one of the elevator conversations with Tali she'll say that she hopes Tali's contributions against Saren are recognized and help end some of the discrimination against Quarians.

 

The one statement Ashley makes that comes the closest to sounding racist is the 'making nice with the bug-eyed monsters' quip. Taken out of context that does indeed sound quite awful and racist.  But if you listen to the whole conversation it is clear that the motivation behind that statement isn't racial animus, it is petty jealousy.

[Hazegurl]

That is insane. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but no asari outside the tiny conspiracy ever committed any action to break the law, or knowingly supported those who did. You can't be charged as an accessory if you had no way of knowing you were helping any criminals.

Most people tend to never question anything as long as they benefit from it even as others fail. The Asari didn't bother to question anything around them, even the artifacts staring them right in their faces. Why? Cause they came out as top dog regardless of the lack of representation other species suffered from. The Asari and their willful ignorance has kept them blind to the actions of their own government and a part of me wonders if they would have even cared enough to change it even if the public discovered the tech early on. I doubt it. Considering how Liara's "father" was made fun of for even suggesting building their own relays (if that story was even true) cements it to me that they are just too used to having everything handed to them.

[SwobyJ]

Well, there is at least one colony which is colonized by both asari and humans...it apparently works there

Asteria: A habitable planet known for its arid sulfurous deserts, Asteria is colonized near the poles to avoid the uncomfortable temperatures that can reach 65 degrees Celsius in more southern latitudes. While the seas contain primitive animal life, little of it can live on land, leaving the soil to hardy plants that can survive in the extreme heat. Asteria is home to thriving human and asari agrarian colonies but little in the way of manufacturing or mining.

 

I'm not actually against it.

[SwobyJ]

Logically speaking, such a conspiracy would have to be both tiny and very tightly controlled to survive for thousands of years. Not only does information in an information-age society have a way of leaking on its own, especially in a democratic and free-media society like the Asari Republics, the asari have the salarians breathing down their neck; they have the best spies in the galaxy and have plans for preemptive strikes on all the galaxy's other species should it become necessary, and any salarian on Thessia could explain away their presence by saying they're someone's bondmate. On top of that, you have the Shadow Broker, whose information network might, somehow, be even greater than the STG's. There are so very many ways for information to fail to stay private in the galaxy that every possible means would had to have been taken to keep the Prothean cache a secret, and that'd mean that the conspiracy would have to have been small enough for everyone to know and trust each other personally.

 

Okay. So a bunch of matriarchs. Charge them. If the Asari government tries to protect them, step it up. If they insist there is no punishment, time for war - to whatever degree.

 

A high level group of Asari ignoring their own major laws on the Council is a very damn serious thing. I don't agree with those who put direct blame on the whole species (indirect, maybe). But if it becomes known that the Asari government can get away with even the biggest inter-galactic laws, it will severely weaken the galaxy as a whole, and its respect for the Council.

 

Or whatever. I'm not exactly for a Council government sitting in the Citadel anyway.

[Xilizhra]

Most people tend to never question anything as long as they benefit from it even as others fail. The Asari didn't bother to question anything around them, even the artifacts staring them right in their faces. Why? Cause they came out as top dog regardless of the lack of representation other species suffered from. The Asari and their willful ignorance has kept them blind to the actions of their own government and a part of me wonders if they would have even cared enough to change it even if the public discovered the tech early on. I doubt it. Considering how Liara's "father" was made fun of for even suggesting building their own relays (if that story was even true) cements it to me that they are just too used to having everything handed to them.

THERE WERE NO ARTIFACTS. The beacon was hidden inside a statue, and I'm almost certain it was never even used.

 

 

Okay. So a bunch of matriarchs. Charge them. If the Asari government tries to protect them, step it up. If they insist there is no punishment, time for war - to whatever degree.

 

A high level group of Asari ignoring their own major laws on the Council is a very damn serious thing. I don't agree with those who put direct blame on the whole species (indirect, maybe). But if it becomes known that the Asari government can get away with even the biggest inter-galactic laws, it will severely weaken the galaxy as a whole, and its respect for the Council.

 

Or whatever. I'm not exactly for a Council government sitting in the Citadel anyway.

Well, firstly, there'll be no more war in my galaxy no matter what. Secondly, we still don't know who any of them are, aside from Benezia, who's extremely dead. Thirdly, it seems rather quixotic to pursue this in the wake of the Reaper war, since the beacon's destroyed and so much reconstructive work is required anyway, and I personally wouldn't want anything to hinder necessary galactic unity.

[DeinonSlayer]

@Xil re: no artifacts? Do yourself a favor. Don't look too closely at what's under the temple floor when Shepard falls through it.

[Han Shot First]

The Asari definitely got some information out of the Prothean archives in the temple. It is implied that it was at least partially responsible for their technological advantages.

 

But they were only getting a slice of whatever data was stored within. They were completely ignorant of the Reapers, for example. It takes either Javik, or Shepard in his stead (thanks to interacting with the Eden Prime Beacon) to get Vendetta to activate. It is doubtful the Asari were even aware of Vendetta's existence, or they likely would have forced whatever data they wanted out of it as Cerberus later did.