Well hey, let's find some common ground here.
In the beginning she was a bigot, but then she grows as a person.
Isn't that what really matters?
To quote Paarthurnax "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort."
That's how I'd describe her too.
"Jealous? Of you? You're not even our species!"
"You want to get involved with some alien? Go ahead."
"Make nice with the bug-eyed monsters."
"I am no fan of aliens"
Some people like to say Ash says these things just because she's all hot-headed and jealous and stuff. Others, myself included, disagree, because come on, if you're someone who does not consider other alien species to be inferior to humanity for simply not being human, you don't blurt crap like that to begin with. Unless you're a totally insensitive moron. Ash is intelligent, so for her to say nonsense like that I think shows she carries some level of deeply buried prejudices against other species.
Given her father's military background, and her limited exposure to alienculture, is that kind of prejudice understandable? Sure. For the time being. Is it excusable? Errr, that's not a thing you "excuse". It's a thing you hope someone will grow out of and move past. And as BioticGod suggested, I'm sure Ash did just that by the time of ME3
Jealousy plays a role in it I think, no sense denying that. Still, it doesn't and shouldn't account for what Ashley says. It was just low, even if said in affect.
So yeah, here's a bomb, sit tight. Hope you two grow to like each other in the next five minutes, since that's all that's left to you.
Nah I've never experienced that scene myself *shudder* lol I saw it on the youtube
Bitter much?
Yes. Yes, he is.
I'm not wrong on both counts.
That's headcanon on your part. And Ashley ought to know the difference and history of each species this late after the integration of humanity into galactic affairs. If she doesn't, then yes, that's a failing on her part and wherever she originated from. I highly doubt that this is the case. Which makes me conclude that she's being intentionally derogatory, since she ought to be able to know what species are what. Which makes me conclude that she has at least semi-racist/bigoted beliefs.
That's headcanon on your part.
No one, even the asari and salarians knows much of anything about the Keepers. A human soldier who has never stepped foot on the Citadel before shouldn't be expected to know any better. That is no failing on her part. That she notes that some aliens resemble terrestrial animals, and thus can't use their appearance to judge if the Keepers are sentient or not is perhaps not politically correct to say aloud, but is hardly racist
Jebus. Not this again.
I don't know or care if she's racist. I just don't like her.
You don't care about the subject at hand yet you felt the need to post here anyway.
It's like those people that comment on youtube videos saying they hate the video, why bother really?
On topic, Ashley is not racist, she just doesn't trust alien species. That changes later on.
Yes, a bit. She's kinda racist. More like prejudice. But.....aren't we all.
That's headcanon on your part.
No one, even the asari and salarians knows much of anything about the Keepers. A human soldier who has never stepped foot on the Citadel before shouldn't be expected to know any better. That is no failing on her part. That she notes that some aliens resemble terrestrial animals, and thus can't use their appearance to judge if the Keepers are sentient or not is perhaps not politically correct to say aloud, but is hardly racist
It's not headcanon. That's denial on your part.
You keep going back to the keepers with this statement, and expecting it to stick. I don't know why you're doing that. You really don't want Ashley to be a racist. A human soldier who has never stepped foot on the Citadel, quite frankly, should be expected to know better. If Ashley doesn't know anything, then it's on her, or her family, to have been willfully ignorant. In either case, willfull ignorance is typically a sign of bigotry, especially in regards to other ethnicities, nations, and races. She may not know the Keepers, but she most definitely should be completely aware of any other sapient species on the Citadel. And when the Keepers perform rather regimented and routine skills with Citadel technology, it should be rather indicative that they're not an animal species that's just wandering the place. So in short; it is a failing on her part to not recognize this. And as I said, I don't believe that to be the case. Which makes it a failure on her part to be willfully derogatory and dismissive to other species arbitrarily. And I consider it a failure on your part to not recognize that aspect of Ashley's psyche.
You don't care about the subject at hand yet you felt the need to post here anyway.
It's like those people that comment on youtube videos saying they hate the video, why bother really?
On topic, Ashley is not racist, she just doesn't trust alien species. That changes later on.
Because it's spam, and they're letting people know that it's spam, so that a mod will appear and lock the thread. I agree that said thread needs to be locked.
More like prejudice. But.....aren't we all.
Yep, from the creators of "The Internet is for Porn."
Yep, from the creators of "The Internet is for Porn."
Everybody's a little racist. Which is good, because its funny too.
Some more than others. Like Ashley Williams.
"Jealous? Of you? You're not even our species!"
"You want to get involved with some alien? Go ahead."
"Make nice with the bug-eyed monsters."
"I am no fan of aliens"
I'd be curious which game that third line comes from. I know the fourth is from ME2 (by which point, IIRC, they'd already dropped her ME1 writer). The first and second I know are from the Liara/Ashley triangle in ME1, which seems more a rejection of human-xeno sexual relationships than general prejudice against aliens. I've never encountered the third, though. I'm just trying to determine if it was her original writer's intent to convey her that way, or something introduced later on by whoever replaced her writer picking up the "Racist bible-thumper!" ball and running with it. Her rather violent rejection of the "xenophobic jackals" of Terra Firma seems out-of-place coming from someone who is herself driven by prejudice.
I can accept the (bugged) "aliens/animals" line as someone who is unfamiliar with what she's being exposed to (see also pobblers), though in the context of the universe I'd expect better schooling. Blunt, perhaps a bit tasteless, but I do not interpret it as her dismissing them as being worth no more moral consideration than animals.
That bug-eyed monsters line, though, I won't make excuses for. I've said before that her writing fell apart by ME3, and I blame it largely on the writer change.
The "bug eyed monsters" line is also in the context of her jealousy of Liara in ME1. And it's pretty telling she keeps going back to that.
Then again most of the ME women are jealous harpies I'd toss out the airlock if I had to take jealousy comments seriously.
Ah. Never got the triangle myself, so I never saw it.
The "bug eyed monsters" line is also in the context of her jealousy of Liara in ME1. And it's pretty telling she keeps going back to that.
Then again most of the ME women are jealous harpies I'd toss out the airlock if I had to take jealousy comments seriously.
Probably also worth remembering that Liara is the daughter of Benezia, so there's at least the seed of a legitimate security worry here.
Ah. Never got the triangle myself, so I never saw it.
I found a text-based transcript, since I never got it either: http://www.obscurega...mass-effect-18/
Ah. Never got the triangle myself, so I never saw it.
I've had it, just to see it.
Ashley get's rather nasty.
I'm fine with a bit of a clingy jealous girl. Miranda for example makes it quite clear that she isn't going to share. But she's never terribly offensive with how she names other people, preferring to judge them by their attitude, behavior, and character rather than what they are. Granted, she can get bitter when she's pressed. Explains her reaction to Jack.
I've had it, just to see it.
Ashley get's downright nasty.
I'm fine with a bit of a clingy jealous girl. Miranda for example makes it quite clear that she isn't going to share. But she's never terribly offensive with how she names other people, preferring to judge them by their attitude, behavior, and character rather than what they are. Granted, she can get bitter when she's pressed. Explains her reaction to Jack.
Even with all my playthroughs, I never got in any triangles. Even with JayneShep - he hit Jack (casual, killed in the SM), Kelly, and Miranda (post-SM) sequentially. Haven't seen the dialogue for them. I do know Kaidan mopes if FemShep romances someone in ME2, Liara needs to be told several times that it's over and Garrus takes a breakup in stride. Ashley was less than pleased in ME3 that JayneShep "worked it out" with "several people."
I guess I'm just not much of a playa.
Even with all my playthroughs, I never got in any triangles. Even with JayneShep - he hit Jack (casual, killed in the SM), Kelly, and Miranda (post-SM) sequentially. Haven't seen the dialogue for them. I do know Kaidan mopes if FemShep romances someone in ME2, Liara needs to be told several times that it's over and Garrus takes a breakup in stride. Ashley was less than pleased in ME3 that JayneShep "worked it out" with "several people."
I guess I'm just not much of a playa.
I had it with Ashley and Liara in ME1 (I headcanon that Liara already has developed a crush on Shepard, and Ashley, who thinks that Shepard is hers, believes is trying to trample on her territory), Miranda and Tali in ME2 (where Miranda believes that Tali, who quite obviously has a huge crush on Shepard, is following him around on the Normandy like a lost puppy, and Shepard eventually has to tell Tali that it isn't going to happen when Miranda points this out too him), and finally in ME3, he has to be clear with Liara that her interest is one-sided, that it's over with Ashley (who doesn't get the point. In fact it literally kills her since it basically makes her go nuts), and that things aren't ever going to happen with anyone but Miranda (without mentioning her for her own safety). Via headcanon, I add a few more lover's woes in the way of Shepard and Miranda.
My Shepard gets into love triangles a bit. I won't lie, I've had a couple of women fight over me in the past, though it wasn't anywhere as pretty as Betty/Veronica, and it certainly wasn't over who got to keep me, just who had more of a right to me than the other. Which I admit was my fault.
I just thought (and still think) it was awesome to have women fighting over me. I'm not a casanova by any means, but I know how to be a lecherous fool.
Ashley's distrust of the Asari and Turians still bears more resemblance to Political Distrust than to Racism. When people go around digging up dirt on oriental communists, quite a number of "racist-like" comments are bound to show up.
Miranda's is a real "back away slowly" moment. She and Shep kind of deserve each other in ME2. I more or less had to make up an entirely new romance in my head to keep from decking them both.
Wow. Not sure what to say to that. The only Shepard of mine who imported a Mirimance into ME3 was Jayne, and he broke up with her in an (unsuccessful) attempt to patch things up with Ashley.
I know the ME3 Miranda romance scene consists of suddenly finding yourself staring at a locked door, but was the rest of the content that bad?
On Virmire, I have to choose between an over-opinionated woman and an absolute bore of a man, and I happen to be a very chivalrous male, hey, woman and children first!
Man, ME2's love triangle dialogue turns everyone into a toolbox. "Cuttlebone" lol
I had it with Ashley and Liara in ME1 (I headcanon that Liara already has developed a crush on Shepard, and Ashley, who thinks that Shepard is hers, believes is trying to trample on her territory), Miranda and Tali in ME2 (where Miranda believes that Tali, who quite obviously has a huge crush on Shepard, is following him around on the Normandy like a lost puppy, and Shepard eventually has to tell Tali that it isn't going to happen when Miranda points this out too him), and finally in ME3, he has to be clear with Liara that her interest is one-sided, that it's over with Ashley (who doesn't get the point. In fact it literally kills her since it basically makes her go nuts), and that things aren't ever going to happen with anyone but Miranda (without mentioning her for her own safety). Via headcanon, I add a few more lover's woes in the way of Shepard and Miranda.
My Shepard gets into love triangles a bit. I won't lie, I've had a couple of women fight over me in the past, though it wasn't anywhere as pretty as Betty/Veronica, and it certainly wasn't over who got to keep me, just who had more of a right to me than the other. Which I admit was my fault.
I just thought (and still think) it was awesome to have women fighting over me. I'm not a casanova by any means, but I know how to be a lecherous fool.
Sounds like you'd have some funny stories. Never had that happen to me, and honestly can't say I'd want it.
ANNNYway, most of my Shepards typically end up with one person. My canon only romanced Tali, secondary only romanced Kaidan, third romanced Liara and switched to Garrus, fourth knocked boots with every human female in the MEU, and fifth is staying loyal to Ashley. Thought I'd try a Jacob romance with one (which I started in ME2 and probably won't import to ME3) and another would romance nobody.
Wow. Not sure what to say to that. The only Shepard of mine who imported a Mirimance into ME3 was Jayne, and he broke up with her in an (unsuccessful) attempt to patch things up with Ashley.
I know the ME3 Miranda romance scene consists of suddenly finding yourself staring at a locked door, but was the rest of the content that bad?
No, as jtav herself would admit, she's kind of atypical with how she views a lot of the Miranda romance material, and Miranda's role in ME3 in general.
Sounds like you'd have some funny stories. Never had that happen to me, and honestly can't say I'd want it.
ANNNYway, most of my Shepards typically end up with one person. My canon only romanced Tali, secondary only romanced Kaidan, third romanced Liara and switched to Garrus, fourth knocked boots with every human female in the MEU, and fifth is staying loyal to Ashley. Thought I'd try a Jacob romance with one (which I probably won't import to ME3) and another would romance nobody.
I haven't had a Shepard who romanced anyone but Miranda since ME2 came out. I only romanced Liara once, and it was a ninja-mance when I trying to get her character's achievement for the 360 which meant I had to use her a lot.
I still have yet to play a Femshep through ME2 and ME3. It's looking less likely that it would ever happen, since I basically hate all the Female LI's. Only Thane's is tolerable, and even then, he's an alien, and it's more of a mature relationship that would be doomed to fail. Garrus' would be alright if he wasn't awkward and socially inept (and an alien.)
As I've said, I wish there was a human LI for FemShep that was a suave, smooth playboy and charming rogue kind of guy who knows how to push women's buttons leaving FemShep irritated, while also being utterly intrigued since she's the only woman who could resist his charms. Bit of 007 mixed with Han Solo, Lando Calrissian, Indiana Jones, Captain Jack (Harkness and Sparrow), Face from the A-Team, and Wesley from the Princess Bride.
It doesn't help that I personally think the two best romances FemShep has are 1) MaleShep, and 2) Miranda.
I'm not a fan of the whole 'awkward thing' that people sometimes are drawn too (especially with the romances). I'm very much the alpha male type person (and as you all know, I do have a tremendous ego), and I can be the insufferable jerk ass when looking at it objectively.
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