I assure you, I know what happend in my Mass Effect playthroughs, but I find your accusations to be uncomforting. Are you calling me a liar? And if so what do you think I have to gain by making deliberate false statements about such trival matters?
I never accused you of anything. Talk about a nuclear response.
All I said was that I think your statement is inaccurate. I know how my game works too.
I never accused you of anything. Talk about a nuclear response.
All I said was that I think your statement is inaccurate. I know how my game works too.
I see, still two options remain open: Either one of us is lying or there must be some ingame condition we're both missing.
She's right, alien's have to deal with their own ****. If they can't handle it then that's their problem, don't call us to clean up your mess.
I would say that she's partially accurate depending on your own political views (a political idealist for example would believe that its our duty to help other species out of the spirit of cooperation), versus the realist ideology you seem to be supporting (more conservative, isolationist, and dealing with our own problems and survival, at the expense of others if necessary.)
However, I would also say that, from observances of her behavior and attitudes towards other species, it's not realism that motivates her entirely.
I think she's semi-right, but for the wrong reasons.
I see, still two options remain open: Either one of us is lying or there must be some ingame condition we're both missing.
I'm going for the latter.
In addition to her ME1 conversations about not wanting to trust or be dependent on the other races to solve a human problem, pretty much every mission I took her on in ME3 brought out some snide comment about aliens - either not handling their own problems or using Shepard to solve theirs. I think she's a racist, reforming as she has more contact with aliens.
The only example of that I can think of off the top of my head is the Ardat-Yakshi monastary. She says something like "The asari owe us big-time for this" Amusingly enough, Liara (who I also brought on the mission) chimed in with "Agreed"
Help me out here, is there ever a moment in the game where she does something for, or says something positive about aliens on her own, besides helping Shepard save the galaxy? A few come to mind:
- ME1: took the position that the Council should be saved in one of my ME1 playthroughs
- ME3: thinks of Tali as a sister
- ME1: thinks the Prothean ruins that Liara was trapped in were impressive
- ME3: tries to save the Council, and with influence puts a gun on Udina, and might even shoot him
Ash doesn't trust groups. She trusts individual people. She's not mistrustful of aliens because of their biology or some sense of natural superiority of humans, but that since they are beholden to foreign governments, they may not have the best interests of humanity in mind. Notice the (often conveniently overlooked) attitude she holds towards bureacrats, politicians, and corporate types: people who are traditionally viewed as self-serving. One of her more amusing lines to me in ME1 is when she comments on how "It sucks to be a patriot and p*ssed at the government. Who am I supposed to vote for?"
She is cynical and mistrusting. But when a person proves themselves in her eyes, she'll have their back, regardless of race. Look at how willing she was to work alongside the STG.
The only example of that I can think of off the top of my head is the Ardat-Yakshi monastary. She says something like "The asari owe us big-time for this" Amusingly enough, Liara (who I also brought on the mission) chimed in with "Agreed"
Ash doesn't trust groups. She trusts individual people. She's not mistrustful of aliens because of their biology or some sense of natural superiority of humans, but that since they are beholden to foreign governments, they may not have the best interests of humanity in mind. Notice the (often conveniently overlooked) attitude she holds towards bureacrats, politicians, and corporate types: people who are traditionally viewed as self-serving. One of her more amusing lines to me in ME1 is when she comments on how "It sucks to be a patriot and p*ssed at the government. Who am I supposed to vote for?"
She is cynical and mistrusting. But when a person proves themselves in her eyes, she'll have their back, regardless of race. Look at how willing she was to work alongside the STG.
You're completely right, I don't get how people are not seeing this. She's just not very trusting at first, and it does change later on. She might be a bit of a cynic or a realist but she has a big heart. At times it seems that's it's some kind of facade she's holding up because she finds it hard to deal with certain emotions or people getting too close. Tough girl pose perhaps.
You're complete right, I don't get how people are not seeing this. She's just not very trusting at first, and it does change later on. She might be a bit of a cynic or a realist but she has a big heart. At times it seems that's it's some kind of facade she's holding up because she finds it hard to deal with certain emotions or people getting too close. Tough girl pose perhaps.
She does have a self-esteem issue as well. Probably due to her family's blacklisting. "A Williams has to be better than the best, if only to avoid suspicion" No doubt that reinforces her belief in standing strong and independant, not being reliant on others.
Ashley could have had a better name other than "Ashley Williams." That name just sounds too... typical, and at first, I thought she was going to be a blonde before I met her.
Ashley could have had a better name other than "Ashley Williams." That name just sounds too... typical, and at first, I thought she was going to be a blonde before I met her.
She doesn't have Maybelline Ultra lash thickening... 
She doesn't have Maybelline Ultra lash thickening...
Nah, she's thick enough herself 
Ashley could have had a better name other than "Ashley Williams." That name just sounds too... typical, and at first, I thought she was going to be a blonde before I met her.
"Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up! You see this? This is my BOOMSTICK! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?"
Ashley "Ash" Williams, "Army of Darkness"
I'll never understand why Ash wasn't allowed to use shotguns in ME3
"Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up! You see this? This is my BOOMSTICK! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?"
I'll never understand why Ash wasn't allowed to use shotguns in ME3
Well, you could give it to her using console commands, but if you switch weapons then you can't switch her back to it unless you give her the shotgun again using console commands. Giving Garrus the Scorpion must have made him happy.
Ash doesn't trust groups. She trusts individual people. She's not mistrustful of aliens because of their biology or some sense of natural superiority of humans, but that since they are beholden to foreign governments, they may not have the best interests of humanity in mind. Notice the (often conveniently overlooked) attitude she holds towards bureacrats, politicians, and corporate types: people who are traditionally viewed as self-serving. One of her more amusing lines to me in ME1 is when she comments on how "It sucks to be a patriot and p*ssed at the government. Who am I supposed to vote for?"
She is cynical and mistrusting. But when a person proves themselves in her eyes, she'll have their back, regardless of race. Look at how willing she was to work alongside the STG.
Which would all be great, if not for things like "I'm no fan of aliens." Again, it's only mild speciesism.
I suspect its a bit more than mild speciesism. Granted, she can get better, but as I said a page or so back, I really wish we had the ability to critique squadmates for their beliefs.
I'd have torn Ashley a new one before capping her in the head in ME3.
I suspect its a bit more than mild speciesism. Granted, she can get better, but as I said a page or so back, I really wish we had the ability to critique squadmates for their beliefs.
I'd have torn Ashley a new one before capping her in the head in ME3.
I don't know how good of an idea that would be, given how the series as a whole is written. Shepard is not... built for smart players to take full advantage of, and while not actually stupid, the dialogue would all have to be accessible to the lowest common denominator.
Which would all be great, if not for things like "I'm no fan of aliens." Again, it's only mild speciesism.
"Nationalism" is probably a more accurate way of looking at it.
"Nationalism" is probably a more accurate way of looking at it.
Nationalism is pretty broadly defined.
Racism and Speciesism can both fall under nationalism. In which case, then yes, Ashley is a nationalist.
Nationalism is pretty broadly defined.
Racism and Speciesism can both fall under nationalism. In which case, then yes, Ashley is a nationalist.
And I believe that is what she is. She doesn't distrust aliens for what they are, but to whom they owe (or don't owe) allegiance to.
And I believe that is what she is. She doesn't distrust aliens for what they are, but to whom they owe (or don't owe) allegiance to.
I believe Ashley is a nationalist as well.
Not the good kind. The reasons you state are definitely not the good kind.
I don't think you caught what I was saying.
I can consider myself nationalist, too, because I'm pretty patriotic for my country. I love America. But sure as hell doesn't mean I will go around saying I'm no fan of people from Russia, or what have you. I'm not close to anyone straight out of Russia, but I'd find it pretty rude for me to say anything like that out loud.
However you want to look at Ashley's personal views of alien species, I hope most people here can agree the way she chooses to word certain things pertaining to non-human species are relatively low in taste, and do not deserve a pat on the back. I agree she's a good person with a big heart, but I think there is good reason to lift an eyebrow at some of the things she says.
In ME1 she could've learned a thing or two from Kaidan, who shows a little more tact regarding the subject, and rightfully so. To explain his lack of attraction to Liara, he says "I never claimed to be big on alien culture". This is a simple acknowledgement of his detachment from asari culture.
This sounds like being picky, but this is just sensitive stuff from the get go. If someone said to me, I'm no fan of Chinese people, I would feel a little hurt. But if someone says "I've never been big on Chinese culture", that's totally fine, people aren't born cosmopolitan. If I was fighting over a boy with a white girl, and she says "You're not even white!", I would...hm. Actually I don't want to even think about that. Damn, Liara is a patient woman 
I believe Ashley is a nationalist as well.
Not the good kind. The reasons you state are definitely not the good kind.
I don't think you caught what I was saying.
I have never said that her reasons were "good" (though her bear and the dog analogy did prove to be at least "accurate")
I just think that she is a nationalist, full stop.
Edit: And yes, she also has a tendency to be tactless and to shoot her mouth off.
I have never said that her reasons were "good" (though her bear and the dog analogy did prove to be at least "accurate")
I just think that she is a nationalist, full stop.
Edit: And yes, she also has a tendency to be tactless and to shoot her mouth off.
Her reasons aren't good. And as I've said, she was semi-right, but for the wrong reasons.
She is a nationalist. Full stop. Being a nationalist is not always a good thing. Being the type of nationalist that Ashley is is definitely not a good thing. There are degrees and different types of nationalism.
She does indeed. And given my observances of her attitude, behavior, and opinions, I am inclined to believe that it is intentional on her part. She's not being that way because she's blunt or brutally honest. She's being that way because she feels that way about aliens.
How the **** is telling it how it is being racist?
In ME1, she had the stance that aliens are like humans, and when **** hits the fan, they'd cling to their own peoples; she wanted the Alliance to take a similar stance and look out for themselves when the time calls for it. She isn't an extremist and clearly detests Cerberus and Terra Firma, yet has no problem personally with the aliens, just sharing concern that outsiders are on the most advanced Alliance ship. At worst she's Walt Kowalski.
Kai Leng is racist
Balak was racist
Wreav is racist
Dalatross Linron is racist
Ashley Williams is not.
To explain his lack of attraction to Liara, he says "I never claimed to be big on alien culture". This is a simple acknowledgement of his detachment from asari culture.
Well, he does kinda acknowledge he finds her attractive to Shepard, where you can playfully go "I saw her first!" to paraphrase.
Lol, wow this thread is running in circles. If you guys are so keen on keeping this thread going, atleast read what other people are saying before you try to contribute.
Her opinion on Normandy protocol is not the main issue.
Well, he does kinda acknowledge he finds her attractive to Shepard, where you can playfully go "I saw her first!" to paraphrase.
What does this have to do with the topic.
FYI I brought up that quote to make the point that if Kaidan wanted to be as tactless as Ash, he could've just said "I'm no fan of Asari". And in which case we would have threads titled "Is Kaidan really a racist????" But no, we do not, hence, Ash could've learned a thing or two from that.
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