642 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Her reasons aren't good. And as I've said, she was semi-right, but for the wrong reasons. 
 
She is a nationalist. Full stop. Being a nationalist is not always a good thing. Being the type of nationalist that Ashley is is definitely not a good thing. There are degrees and different types of nationalism.
 
She does indeed. And given my observances of her attitude, behavior, and opinions, I am inclined to believe that it is intentional on her part. She's not being that way because she's blunt or brutally honest. She's being that way because she feels that way about aliens.

Stop me if this was already asked, but what's the distinction between Ashley's nationalism and Cerberus' nationalism? Besides her rejection of "For Science!" and feeding soldiers to thresher maws for the lulz?

Just seems odd how you're an avid supporter of one, yet frequently talk about executing Ashley for a couple of offhanded comments. I also recall you said at one point there was such a thing as rational racism, I believe this was in reference to the Krogan's genetic predisposition towards violence (blood rage) and not sticking one's head in the sand about it in the name of tolerance.

[KaiserShep]

Personally, I'd prefer to go with the one that wouldn't secretly put some kind of mind-bending serum in my coffee one day just to see how I react, provided I survive, or basically provide a catalyzing agent for my paranoia in general. It's like MKULTRA in space, on steroids, and red sand.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Stop me if this was already asked, but what's the distinction between Ashley's nationalism and Cerberus' nationalism? Besides her rejection of "For Science!" and feeding soldiers to thresher maws for the lulz?

Just seems odd how you're an avid supporter of one, yet frequently talk about executing Ashley for a couple of offhanded comments. I also recall you said at one point there was such a thing as rational racism, I believe this was in reference to the Krogan's genetic predisposition towards violence (blood rage) and not sticking one's head in the sand about it in the name of tolerance.

 

Ashley's brand of nationalism has always rubbed me more along the lines of disliking diversity and differences for things that aren't really in line with her worldview. She strikes me as narrow-minded and ignorant, and unwilling to be informed and to accommodate another perspective or understanding beyond what she has concluded or the alliance has told her to conclude. She's not good at seeing things from a pure, cold, logical perspective, and she's certainly not good at looking at the big picture.

 

Basically, she's like the ignorant yokel unwilling to see anything different from her own self-righteous views. That's why I am absolutely disgusted by Ashley. 

[Obadiah]

Ignorant? Seemed more like it was "informed" racism - not terribly forgiving at all. She's certainly judgmental - her opinion of Cerberus is right up there with her mistrust of aliens. I think what stands out most about Ashley is that she has some negative things to say, which no one except Javik seems to do (he takes it to another level obviously), so she stands out more.

[KaiserShep]

Though her opinion of Cerberus is pretty well substantiated. Kaidan does take a better approach to this though, if you talk to him about the Illusive Man and discuss whether or not Shepard thinks that he was a good man at some point, and of course the good people that worked for Cerberus.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Though her opinion of Cerberus is pretty well substantiated. Kaidan does take a better approach to this though, if you talk to him about the Illusive Man and discuss whether or not Shepard thinks that he was a good man at some point, and of course the good people that worked for Cerberus.

 

I think that's where they'd separate. Kaidan at least would see the possibility of Cerberus being some kind of good organization, whereas Ashley views them as indefendable damnable evil.

[DeinonSlayer]

Though her opinion of Cerberus is pretty well substantiated. Kaidan does take a better approach to this though, if you talk to him about the Illusive Man and discuss whether or not Shepard thinks that he was a good man at some point, and of course the good people that worked for Cerberus.

I really ought to have kept Kaidan alive in more than one playthrough. Sounds like he has better content than "drunk off his ass while on-duty." I installed a pretty comprehensive appearance mod for Ashley in addition to HR textures for just about everyone else, but still can't take her jump in rank (among other things) seriously.

How exactly do you configure his ME3 skillset?

[KaiserShep]

I honestly do not put much thought into his skillset, because I find it a bit disappointing after what I was accustomed to in ME1, because he only has one offensive biotic power. I just give him stats aimed at higher health and power damage and give him the N7 weapons and call it a day. It doesn't help that he's unavailable for a good portion of the game, though is at least there before Tali. I will say, I like his buddy-buddy relationship with James as well. A minor complaint, but James' flirting is fine and good when it's directed at Shepard, since he seems to get flustered, but with Ashley, it kind of becomes insufferable to witness (in fairness, this is just the Citadel DLC content I'm talking about).

[Jorji Costava]

I really ought to have kept Kaidan alive in more than one playthrough. Sounds like he has better content than "drunk off his ass while on-duty." I installed a pretty comprehensive appearance mod for Ashley in addition to HR textures for just about everyone else, but still can't take her jump in rank (among other things) seriously.

How exactly do you configure his ME3 skillset?

 

As far as the jump in rank goes, I agree and I think this is one of the things that the two year gap between ME1 and ME2 could have been exploited for. For instance, we could have found out that during this period, that Ashley or Kaidan established themselves as a viable Spectre candidate by winning a couple of engagements against Cerberus. This would establish them as capable soldiers in their own right, independent of Shepard (with the cast in ME2 moving increasingly towards a more superhero style, the VS needed a bit of a boost).

 

It would also explain why they have a special resentment towards Cerberus that even the alien characters might not have. Having the VS chew you out about Cerberus while Tali and Garrus were mostly okay with it (even if you turned Veetor over to Cerberus) was a major source of dissonance in ME2.

 

Lastly, it would  give Ashley an interesting personal conflict: While the Alliance, the organization she has put most of her trust in, has largely kicked her to the curb, the Council, who she doesn't like, is entrusting her with considerable power and responsibility. That tension sounds like the basis for an interesting character arc to me, anyways.

 

EDIT: Added some stuff and fixed phrasing.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

His skillset really isn't impressive at all in ME3. 

 

Kaidan gets much better content in ME3 compared to Ashley, which is why I'd say that his survival would be easier to call 'canon' compared to Ashley, along with considering he also gets relatively more content compared to her.

 

I think Ashley suffered from the writers not liking her much either.

[wolfhowwl]

Here are some thoughts from her writer, Chris L'Etoile, in Mass Effect 1.
 

I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd expect from a xenophobe.

In her first conversation she spells out her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":
 

When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior:

1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.


2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.


3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.

And it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?

Anyway. I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here.

To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions.

[Iakus]

Ignorant? Seemed more like it was "informed" racism - not terribly forgiving at all. She's certainly judgmental - her opinion of Cerberus is right up there with her mistrust of aliens. I think what stands out most about Ashley is that she has some negative things to say, which no one except Javik seems to do (he takes it to another level obviously), so she stands out more.

Yep. And because she's not a bro like Javik she can't get away with nearly as much garbage as he does

[KaiserShep]

That whole getting drunk on the ship thing really bothers me the more I think about it, but then Ashley isn't the only one that's guilty of this (lookin' at you, Tali), since this is a warship, where everyone is in constant danger of suddenly being thrown into a life or death situation.

[Iakus]

That whole getting drunk on the ship thing really bothers me the more I think about it, but then Ashley isn't the only one that's guilty of this (lookin' at you, Tali), since this is a warship, where everyone is in constant danger of suddenly being thrown into a life or death situation.

Listen to James and Steve they get hammered a couple of times too.

Heck Ash got drunk with James!

[KaiserShep]

Yep. And because she's not a bro like Javik she can't get away with nearly as much garbage as he does

 

Well, in Mass Effect, being an alien does kind of give a character a license to be cheekier, weirder and extreme. If James Vega was saying the things Grunt did, we'd wonder how a potential serial killer got his way onto an Alliance warship.

[KaiserShep]

Listen to James and Steve they get hammered a couple of times too.

Heck Ash got drunk with James!

 

Then we can add all these drunkards to the list. It's a good thing Joker's incapable of moseying his crippled ass down to the lounge with any frequency.

[DeinonSlayer]

That whole getting drunk on the ship thing really bothers me the more I think about it, but then Ashley isn't the only one that's guilty of this (lookin' at you, Tali), since this is a warship, where everyone is in constant danger of suddenly being thrown into a life or death situation.

Agreed. There's a time and a place for it.

Speaking of which, why does Miranda toss everyone out of engineering of all places on the eve of the suicide mission when both she and Shepard have access to perfectly suitable beds in their respective quarters?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Here are some thoughts from her writer, Chris L'Etoile, in Mass Effect 1.
 

 

I personally don't think L'Etoile really hit the notes for political realism very well. I've studied it a bit, and Ashley's pessimism definitely strikes me as motivated by more than just cynicism. There's an underlying feeling that she seems to hold towards aliens that I don't really see in most modern realist proponents. And the people who that characteristic is present in? It's the same kind of people I'd view as more akin to the hijacked tea party perspective and rural blue collar conservative. While you can say that it's a realist perspective, you can't really say its something born from personal experience or observance. Ashley technically has no physical justification for holding her opinions prior to her first Citadel experience. It's also important to note how he immediately flags all consideration of her as racist as xenophobic. That's not really the case for defining all bigotry. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Agreed. There's a time and a place for it.

Speaking of which, why does Miranda toss everyone out of engineering of all places on the eve of the suicide mission when both she and Shepard have access to perfectly suitable beds in their respective quarters?

 

No bugs? The Illusive Man has to pay Cinemax prices for that show. It ain't XVIDEOS or Redtube. And since he ain't paying, he don't get to watch. 

 

Granted, I think it would have been better having the scene in one of the bedrooms. Hell, they have an entire crew compartment to go do it on. Or even the Medlab.

[KaiserShep]

Technically, Miranda could've tossed Mordin out of the tech lab too, since he removed all the bugs, and destroyed a few.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Agreed. There's a time and a place for it.

Speaking of which, why does Miranda toss everyone out of engineering of all places on the eve of the suicide mission when both she and Shepard have access to perfectly suitable beds in their respective quarters?

You just know that angle peaking into the scene is Tali watching. 



At 21 seconds. 

[Xilizhra]

Yep. And because she's not a bro like Javik she can't get away with nearly as much garbage as he does

Believe me, Javik does not "get away with" it in my mind.

 

 

Well, in Mass Effect, being an alien does kind of give a character a license to be cheekier, weirder and extreme. If James Vega was saying the things Grunt did, we'd wonder how a potential serial killer got his way onto an Alliance warship.

To be fair, Grunt wasn't just an alien; he was literally born to be a supreme warrior from a krogan perspective, with all of his (very rapid) upbringing focusing on that role. And it's clearly not just about being human, seeing as we've got Jack, who came from a somewhat similar but even worse situation (not many are cheekier, weirder or more extreme than she).

[KaiserShep]

The reasons why don't really matter. The point is that from a player perspective, the alien characters will be seen in a different light on account of them simply being aliens. When Javik makes a casual remark about taking hostages and shooting people in the casino, it seems like some humorously extreme prothean nonsense. A lot of emphasis is placed on how crazy and hateful Jack is even prior to her meeting in ME2, and her loyalty mission delves deeper into the source of her super-powered angst.

[Xilizhra]

The reasons why don't really matter. The point is that from a player perspective, the alien characters will be seen in a different light on account of them simply being aliens. When Javik makes a casual remark about taking hostages and shooting people in the casino, it seems like some humorously extreme prothean nonsense. A lot of emphasis is placed on how crazy and hateful Jack is even prior to her meeting in ME2, and her loyalty mission delves deeper into the source of her super-powered angst.

Keep in mind too that Javik is a known liar and troll. And I'm trying to imagine human characters who had the same background as the alien ones who do that kind of thing, for a direct comparison, but it's frankly not easy. It's flat-out impossible with Javik; with Grunt, the closest thing we got was Clone Shepard; why would you force-grow human supersoldiers anyway when krogan are better at it?

[Lucky Thirteen]

Garrus was way more racist in the first game. He tells Kaidan that turians would have handled L2's way better than humans, tells Tali her race is shameful compared to turians, then Garrus tells Wrex how surprised he is that Wrex isn't a walking racial stereotype of a Krogan.

 

I don't understand why people don't pick up on that passive racism Garrus frequently showed. They damn Ashley forever for one instance that can happen really early in the game and Jacob for a line of dialogue you have to really work for.