I wasn't impressed either. The guy's Henry Lawson 2.0. Just with a bit more personal honor. But their plans were the same.
He's nothing like Henry Lawson at all.
Granted, I think their plans were inspired. After getting rid of Lawson, I'd put Petrovsky in charge of Sanctuary and the Adjutant project. I'd let Aria have Omega back. Nyreen would be shot in the back of the head, with her body lying in a ditch.
5 minutes later, this would be the defense council of the alliance:
Someone really humped the bunk...
Poor space Mormons.
Here it comes...
Oh, you know me so well.
Unfortunately, this little bit slipped under my radar yesterday, so I'm not going to respond to it. Plus this guy has been pretty combative about a lot of stuff, and it's too early to jump into the debatin' mood this morning. Maybe I'll say something that'll ****** him off, or he'll something that's incorrect (like his calling of a faulty generalization fallacy on Steelcan).
Unfortunately, this little bit slipped under my radar yesterday, so I'm not going to respond to it. Plus this guy has been pretty combative about a lot of stuff, and it's too early to jump into the debatin' mood this morning. Maybe I'll say something that'll ****** him off, or he'll something that's incorrect (like his calling of a faulty generalization fallacy on Steelcan).
Unfortunantly for you, I'm totally correct at calling a faulty generalization on the contention that the Alliance useless based soley on their modest commitment of resources to the collector threat.
All's I can say is that everyone here is my favorite NPC.
Unfortunantly for you, I'm totally correct at calling a faulty generalization on the contention that the Alliance useless based soley on their modest commitment of resources to the collector threat.
You just changed an argument that you applied to another person over another issue and transplanted it onto me. I have said little more than that 1) the alliance is useless, and 2) your improper claim of a faulty generalization fallacy is in itself a fallacy fallacy.
So this just comes off as beleaguered spite towards me. You don't like being wrong or being called out as such.
And to be honest, if all you're going to get from the alliance is a 'modest commitment of resources' regarding an existential threat to most extra-solar colonies (places that the alliance is sworn to defend), then yes, I do begin to question the functionality and capability of the alliance.
And to be honest, if all you're going to get from the alliance is a 'modest commitment of resources' regarding an existential threat to most extra-solar colonies (places that the alliance is sworn to defend), then yes, I do begin to question the functionality and capability of the alliance.
We don't know the exact contents of the Alliance charter, It's highly unlikely whether the Alliance has any obligation to provide protection to human colonies outside of the Alliance's claimed territories and it's nigh impossible that the Collectors would be able to strike at any significant Alliance settlement, considering the relativly weakness of the Collector ship.
That being said, you as well as Steelcan keep cherry picking the Alliance's relatively lax response to the Collector threat as indication for total incompetance, which I find to be an outrageous claim, considering numerous military succeses the Alliance made since their entrance to the galactic community, and if you wish I will be to provide you with a list of said succesfull operations.
We don't know the exact contents of the Alliance charter, It's highly unlikely whether the Alliance has any obligation to provide protection to human colonies outside of the Alliance's claimed territories and it's nigh impossible that the Collectors would be able to strike at any significant Alliance settlement, considering the relativly weakness of the Collector ship.
That being said, you as well as Steelcan keep cherry picking the Alliance's relatively lax response to the Collector threat as indication for total incompetance, which I find to be an outrageous claim, considering numerous military succeses the Alliance made since their entrance to the galactic community, and if you wish I will be to provide you with a list of said succesfull operations.
Considering the Collectors were planning on eventually targeting Earth, I completely doubt that the Collectors would just be unprepared and weak. They did kind of completely slaughter a Turian patrol flotilla that came across them, and given that their ability to rely on jamming equipment and target neutralization, they'd be able to slip in and out of a colony before anyone knows what has happened. Even if it's within the alliance's claimed territory, more often than not (as ME1 suggests) the alliance isn't there to help you out if trouble shows up at your door. In fact, the Council is reprimanding the alliance for the risks that they've taken after Eden Prime attacked.
It's an indication for much less than stellar competence, considering that it's an existential threat and that they have to have some form of preparation (which they didn't have until much later). Your list of military operations wouldn't change the political and organizational faulting of the alliance that comes into play here. It's an unrelated and irrelevant claim of data. My point stands. The alliance is inept.
In ME2 when you talk with Anderson, if you choose to, he mentions to Shepard that its up to him/her to stop the reapers. Too bad I couldn't shoot the clown for that comment. He and the Alliance didn't care about humanity. That's why I liked working with Cerberus because they care about finding a way to stop the reapers and defeating the collectors
In ME2 when you talk with Anderson, if you choose to, he mentions to Shepard that its up to him/her to stop the reapers. Too bad I couldn't shoot the clown for that comment. He and the Alliance didn't care about humanity. That's why I liked working with Cerberus because they care about finding a way to stop the reapers and defeating the collectors
Ditto. I like Cerberus as well because they don't let anything get in the way of achieving their goal. Period. Even the people who are a part of said goal.
Considering the Collectors were planning on eventually targeting Earth, I completely doubt that the Collectors would just be unprepared and weak. They did kind of completely slaughter a Turian patrol flotilla that came across them, and given that their ability to rely on jamming equipment and target neutralization, they'd be able to slip in and out of a colony before anyone knows what has happened. Even if it's within the alliance's claimed territory, more often than not (as ME1 suggests) the alliance isn't there to help you out if trouble shows up at your door. In fact, the Council is reprimanding the alliance for the risks that they've taken after Eden Prime attacked.
The Collectors hitting earth was conjecture on the side of the Shepard's teamamtes and no definative proof was offerd. Now admittedly, the Alliance functions better as a counter attcking force then as a defender, with flexibility being one of the key aspects of their stratgey, that being said the sheer fire power of the Alliance fleets would have been most likely be able to cut down the Collectors if they tried to rush through Arctutrus.
I do wonder were exactly it was mentioned that the Collector wiped out a turian patrol flottilla?
It's an indication for much less than stellar competence, considering that it's an existential threat and that they have to have some form of preparation (which they didn't have until much later). Your list of military operations wouldn't change the political and organizational faulting of the alliance that comes into play here. It's an unrelated and irrelevant claim of data. My point stands. The alliance is inept.
No, they're not. You've yet to provide any piece of definative evidence that confirms that assertion. Furthermore if the Alliance were so inept then the narrative would have to be able to proof that by itself without relying on conjecture, The list of succesfull military operations is merely an indication of why this clearly isn't the case.
In ME2 when you talk with Anderson, if you choose to, he mentions to Shepard that its up to him/her to stop the reapers. Too bad I couldn't shoot the clown for that comment. He and the Alliance didn't care about humanity. That's why I liked working with Cerberus because they care about finding a way to stop the reapers and defeating the collectors
Mass Effect 3 does later proof however that both the Council and the Alliance were unwilling to discloser their activities to Shepard because of his/her connections to Cerberus, It's very much possible that Anderson was deliberatly keep shepard in the dark, thoug the last part is admittedly conjecture.
The Collectors hitting earth was conjecture on the side of the Shepard's teamamtes and no definative proof was offerd. Now admittedly, the Alliance functions better as a counter attcking force then as a defender, with flexibility being one of the key aspects of their stratgey, that being said the sheer fire power of the Alliance fleets would have been most likely be able to cut down the Collectors if they tried to rush through Arctutrus.
I do wonder were exactly it was mentioned that the Collector wiped out a turian patrol flottilla?
No, they're not. You've yet to provide any piece of definative evidence that confirms that assertion. Furthermore if the Alliance were so inept then the narrative would have to be able to proof that by itself without relying on conjecture, The list of succesfull military operations is merely an indication of why this clearly isn't the case.
In a game where character's words are essentially treated as truth, this was likely the case that Earth was in the Collector's sites. Something that also bothers me is how you're asking for 'proof' in the means of how a Young Earth Creationist demands proof for Evolution that is essentially in an unverifiable state. I can't be right, because you don't want me to be right. Strategy isn't really the big thing here; the issue is that the alliance has let it get as far as this to begin with. Or the Council.
TIM stated (and you can see the remains of the ship yourself on the mission) that the Turians were annihilated when they attacked the Collector ship.
As I stated, you're changing the use of proof to suit your purpose. The narrative does allow you to all out deny the usefulness of the alliance as it is. Shepard can repeatedly mention how he feels the alliance are blind idiots, Anderson acknowledges just how thick and stubborn the alliance really is, you have the entire Collector scenario of ME2 where the alliance chooses to essentially stick its head in the sand, you have the Reapers invasion and the alliance's stubborn refusal to listen or prepare, you have the Arrival situation (which falls into the last), you have plenty of characters outright mentioning that after Shepard died, the alliance just wanted to forget and hope the Reapers into non-existence.
A list of military victories, as I said, is unrelated to this. All that proves is that the alliance won military battles. If you're going to keep things connected via narrative, don't shift them to be connected by historical military engagements. You're essentially making your evidence fit your theory, rather than vice versa.
Mass Effect 3 does later proof however that both the Council and the Alliance were unwilling to discloser their activities to Shepard because of his/her connections to Cerberus, It's very much possible that Anderson was deliberatly keep shepard in the dark, thoug the last part is admittedly conjecture.
It is completely conjecture.
And as ME3 proved, the Council and alliance were completely caught with their pants down by the Reapers.
In a game where character's words are essentially treated as truth, this was likely the case that Earth was in the Collector's sites. Something that also bothers me is how you're asking for 'proof' in the means of how a Young Earth Creationist demands proof for Evolution that is essentially in an unverifiable state. I can't be right, because you don't want me to be right. Strategy isn't really the big thing here; the issue is that the alliance has let it get as far as this to begin with. Or the Council.
Conjecture remains conjecture, we can't assume something is true until there's reasonable evindence to back it up. Likewise we can't assume something's a lie without reasonable suspsion.
TIM stated (and you can see the remains of the ship yourself on the mission) that the Turians were annihilated when they attacked the Collector ship.
One ship, not a flotilla.
As I stated, you're changing the use of proof to suit your purpose. The narrative does allow you to all out deny the usefulness of the alliance as it is. Shepard can repeatedly mention how he feels the alliance are blind idiots, Anderson acknowledges just how thick and stubborn the alliance really is, you have the entire Collector scenario of ME2 where the alliance chooses to essentially stick its head in the sand, you have the Reapers invasion and the alliance's stubborn refusal to listen or prepare, you have the Arrival situation (which falls into the last), you have plenty of characters outright mentioning that after Shepard died, the alliance just wanted to forget and hope the Reapers into non-existence.
Here, you're confusing the subjetive side of the narrative with the objective side. The subjective side tells you the Alliance is doing is effectively doing nothing, this however can be partially nuanced why observing the objective narrative. A good example of this is how it is mentioned a few times that the council and the Alliance believed the reapers did not exist ,which turned out to be false. Arrival allready partially confirmed this, through Hackett. And it is later that we know that the Alliance and the Council were in fact aware of the Reaper threat and. It is also at this point that we learn that some information was deliberatly kept from Shepard due to his/her connenction with Cerberus, something which is allready hinted by Anderson in ME2.
A list of military victories, as I said, is unrelated to this. All that proves is that the alliance won military battles. If you're going to keep things connected via narrative, don't shift them to be connected by historical military engagements. You're essentially making your evidence fit your theory, rather than vice versa.
It is related however, as it is evidence that weakens your assertion that the Alliance somehow totally useless, wheras infact, it enjoyed many military succes despite being somehow "useless'. Cherry picking and exaggerating the Alliance cautious reaction to the colony abductions does not deny these victories or the capablity of the Alliance war machine.
.
It is completely conjecture.
And as ME3 proved, the Council and alliance were completely caught with their pants down by the Reapers.
That's not entirely true, While they were both aware of the Reaper's existance they did not prepare well for the coming invasion.
That's not entirely true, While they were both aware of the Reaper's existance they did not prepare well for the coming invasion.
That's just as bad. They had knowledge of a threat, arguable confirmation of a threat, and they did nothing to act or prepare for said threat.
Conjecture remains conjecture, we can't assume something is true until there's reasonable evindence to back it up. Likewise we can't assume something's a lie without reasonable suspsion.
One ship, not a flotilla.
Here, you're confusing the subjetive side of the narrative with the objective side. The subjective side tells you the Alliance is doing is effectively doing nothing, this however can be partially nuanced why observing the objective narrative. A good example of this is how it is mentioned a few times that the council and the Alliance believed the reapers did not exist ,which turned out to be false. Arrival allready partially confirmed this, through Hackett. And it is later that we know that the Alliance and the Council were in fact aware of the Reaper threat and. It is also at this point that we learn that some information was deliberatly kept from Shepard due to his/her connenction with Cerberus, something which is allready hinted by Anderson in ME2.
It is related however, as it is evidence that weakens your assertion that the Alliance somehow totally useless, wheras infact, it enjoyed many military succes despite being somehow "useless'. Cherry picking and exaggerating the Alliance cautious reaction to the colony abductions does not deny these victories or the capablity of the Alliance war machine.
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1) Delving into the realm of semantics now.
2) Did I say one ship? I meant ships. There were more than one. A flotilla, as it was composed of patrol vessels.
3) And that falls into incompetence on their part for not publicly acknowledging the Reaper threat, keeping information sharing to a minimum with a group and a man who were in the best position to assist, and doing absolutely nothing despite having said forewarning. You've done nothing now but prove how useless and incompetent the alliance and Council are by making no preparations despite knowledge of the Reapers.
4) But that's not the debate here. What good is a military if it's not being used properly for its intended purpose? The debate is on the political utility, which always undercuts military mobility and application. Since the politics aren't invested in the problem, neither is the military. And it's useless. Completely useless.
It's hard to imagine how they or anyone would have prepared for the invasion, considering the sheer power of the fleet. The turians simply had a larger fleet to combat the reapers with, far larger than the Alliance, the latter of which was in the process of rebuilding, since so many were lost battling Sovereign. I guess the real problem is the introduction of the Crucible, which suddenly saw to it in the overarching narrative that they just sat on that info for the 30 some odd years that humanity's been studying the prothean relics. That does, however, mean that it retroactively makes Cerberus also accountable for not knowing about those plans sooner too.
Its hard for the humans to study Prothean artifacts if they aren't able to translate the stuff. I'm surprised that the council didn't send anyone to help study the archives on Mars. At the beginning of ME1, Anderson mentions bringing the beacon from Eden Prime back to the Citadel will improve relations, why wouldn't humanity have the Council help study the relics on Mars? That would certainly improve relations and help understand what was found on Mars.
A better alternative would likely be Shepard, who, with the cipher, can understand the prothean language.
5 minutes later, this would be the defense council of the alliance:
General TSAR approves.
I wonder if Klendathu exists in the Mass Effect universe.
3) And that falls into incompetence on their part for not publicly acknowledging the Reaper threat, keeping information sharing to a minimum with a group and a man who were in the best position to assist, and doing absolutely nothing despite having said forewarning. You've done nothing now but prove how useless and incompetent the alliance and Council are by making no preparations despite knowledge of the Reapers.
A group that may I remind you has been responsbile for several attacks on Alliance ships and installations and that has the death of several dozen military personel and citizins on it's hands . It's nothing but logcial for a credible government to threat such an organisation with such the utmost distrust. We don't know the exact nature of te Alliance preperationsbut we know that they had staging areas and construction facilities standing by in anticpiation of the retreating fleets and the arrical of the Crucible plans, these locations and facilities were safe enough that once throughout the war the Reapers got to them.
4) But that's not the debate here. What good is a military if it's not being used properly for its intended purpose? The debate is on the political utility, which always undercuts military mobility and application. Since the politics aren't invested in the problem, neither is the military. And it's useless. Completely useless.
I won't deny that the political games played by the likes of Udina obstruct the work of men like Hackett and Mikhailovich. But I see no reason why the Alliance navy wasn't utilized propery outside the failed attempt to protect earth when the Reapers arrived. Regrouping the fleets, spearheading the creating of a galactic coaliton aganst the Reapers and eliminating Cerberus are but a few of operations in which the Alliance proves it's worth. I hopefully don't have to repeat myself that Cherry picking and exaggerating one issue doesn't make the alliance useless.
General TSAR approves.
I wonder if Klendathu exists in the Mass Effect universe.
Well, there was the planet Suen, the homeworld of the rachni. The arachnids' ability to spread their spore throughout space does have an equivalent in ME with the thresher maw.
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