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[Emerald Rift]

I trust Morrigan and after what she said about Flemeth in Witch Hunt I would be wary (of course my inquisitor wouldn't know any better).

[yk1468]

Morrigan because is a dynamic character,notice how her personality changes when you befreind/romance her and especially in witch hunt. and if your a heroic warden and give her the mirror she would say "I have... never received a gift. Not one that did not also come with a price attached." so yeah I would trust morrigan. plus the devs said that if you befreind/romance her she becomes more warm and compassionate in Inquisition. 

[ThomasBlaine]

Morrigan because is a dynamic character,notice how her personality changes when you befreind/romance her and especially in witch hunt. and if your a heroic warden and give her the mirror she would say "I have... never received a gift. Not one that did not also come with a price attached." so yeah I would trust morrigan. plus the devs said that if you befreind/romance her she becomes more warm and compassionate in Inquisition. 

 

You can romance Morrigan in Inquisition? That's awesome.

 

I'd just like to point out that there's no way to tell the difference between you romancing her and her seducing you before it's too late. That is, after all, exactly what she did in Origins.

[Pateu]

You can romance Morrigan in Inquisition? That's awesome.

 

I'd just like to point out that there's no way to tell the difference between you romancing her and her seducing you before it's too late. That is, after all, exactly what she did in Origins.

 

No, they mean that if you romanced her in DAO she will be more sociable, which makes sense, as The Warden was Morrigan's first friend.

[yk1468]

No, they mean that if you romanced her in DAO she will be more sociable, which makes sense, as The Warden was Morrigan's first friend.

Yeah I forgot to mention that in my post my bad 

[ThomasBlaine]

Yeah I forgot to mention that in my post my bad 

 

Ah, well. I'd feel a little weird making a cuckold of my own previous character, anyway.

[TK514]

I'd trust Flemeth over Morrigan every time.  Flemeth put the right people in play to save the world, and offered what assistance she could without being overt.

 

Morrigan left the world to burn because my Warden wouldn't bang her at the 11th hour.

[Schreckstoff]

I'd trust Flemeth over Morrigan every time. Flemeth put the right people in play to save the world, and offered what assistance she could without being overt.

Morrigan left the world to burn because my Warden wouldn't bang her at the 11th hour.

Well if you romances her that felt more like she didn't want to see you die.

[TK514]

Well if you romances her that felt more like she didn't want to see you die.

 

And yet, either way she abandons the Warden and the world when she is needed most.

[DarthLaxian]

I'd trust Morrigan more.  If only because she would be slightly easier to kill if I was wrong.

 

I would really trust neither (but Morrigan more than Flemeth - not that I would really want to fight Flemeth (If she didn't to a cheat death kind of thing...a cornered beast is always the most deadly!) if I didn't have to...I just wouldn't trust her with critical stuff (like helping out the PC-Character...yes, she has done so in the past, but that does not mean she always will IMO and even if she does, the price might just be too high...)

 

On the other hand, if I were the warden again (had a relationship with her after all and I gained her trust - so I am not a stranger to her, which my new character will be (!)...so as the new character, I can't trust her...and as romancing her is impossible it seems, I just can't trust her), I would trust her.

 

I mean:

 

She only is this duplicitous, because of her upbringing with Flemeth and reading her books (she tries to survive essentially and she can't trust anyone either, so she tries not to get attached and thus it is easy for her to screw someone over!)

 

greetings LAX

[Indoctrination]

Even if they're both really sneaky and fundamentally dishonest, I think I trust Flemeth a little more. Flemeth is so strong and cocky that I think she would be less likely to hide malicious intent from you because she probably doesn't consider player characters to be a serious threat to her continued existence.

[sunnydxmen]

hmm i trust the person who always seems to save from utter destruction.  Morrigan says she bad  but if i go by evidence  i have to say Flemeth is good and more like anti hero, morrigan was using from the start to get ogb this includes flemeth she uses you in return for saving you.

[TK514]

How is that any different than what Leliana did? When I made the decision to desecrate the Ashes of Andraste, she turned on my party and tried to kill us. Sure, she construed it as an act of blasphemy, but Morrigan seemed to view the Dark Ritual with quasi-religious devotion as well. She has a goal to accomplish and you are standing in the way.

 

Liliana never made a secret of her devotion.  If you ignored almost every conversation you could have with her discussing her faith, and her bluntly voiced objections against it, that's on you for being an idiot, not on her for being completely predictable.  Had Morrigan been up front with her agenda and her feelings on it the entire game like Liliana was with her faith, and then the Warden said no, you might have a point.  Which brings us to...

 

Liliana doesn't spring a hidden agenda at the last possible moment and then refuse to give you any meaningful information.  "Oh, hey, about tomorrow...You know that thing that's directed slaughter and destruction across Ferelden?  The thing whose presence is anathema to all life?  Whose siblings brought all Thedas to the brink of extinction during previous Blights?  I want you to make a baby with me so we can use the baby as a jar for that thing's soul.  No, I won't tell you why.  No, I won't tell you what will happen to the baby.  No, I won't tell you what I will be using the baby for.  No, you can't have anything to do with me or the baby ever again.  Why?  Because reasons.  And if you say no, I'm going to be petty and leave the world to die because you won't do what I tell you to."

 

Liliana doesn't abandon you on the eve of a battle that may determine the fate of not just everyone in Denerim, but all of Ferelden and Southern Thedas.  This isn't a case of halfway through the recruiting of forces where we have time to recover from a loss, or come up with a replacement, or somehow find a way to compensate for the lack.  Morrigan pulls this crap on you hours before you have to go fight for the fate of the world, when you can't have any time to think about it, consider the implications, convince her to provide more information, or in any way come to a meaningful and informed decision.  She waits until the point you are the least capable of recovering from a change and uses extortion to get what she wants, then abandons you when she doesn't get it.

 

Yeah, no.  There is pretty much no comparison between Liliana's and Morrigan's actions.

[Chernaya]

I trust neither. I grew respect for Morrigan as a friend a bit in Origins -- but we still have some issues between us with her secrets and the whole DR thing. Flemeth is just an enigma. Sure, she makes me laugh, and has even saved my Hawke's butt, but it's pretty clear she has her own reasons for doing anything just like Morrigan has. I do believe Morrigan has a conscious, it's been shown quite a few times that she's capable of caring and empathy and friendship, but in the end I still find her unpredictable and unwilling to even let the closest person to her know what's going on in her head. 

[wcholcombe]

Her sister, Yavana, tells King Alistair (when he brings up Flemeth possessing her daughters) that it's a "gift".

 

 

Morrigan said it was the reason Flemeth wanted Morrigan to accompany the Wardens (the night before the march to Denerim).

We still don't even know what is meant by "gift"  For all we know it means that Flemeth passes on her power to Morrigan, Flemeth dies, and Morrigan takes her place as "Flemeth"again, we know something occurs, but we really don't have a clue what it is or what it involves. If it was simply possession and morrigan seases to exist, I doubt Yavana would be referring to it as a "gift".

 

Morrigan also says that the Warden needs to kill Flemeth, that Flemeth's book will tell her about the possession-which to our knowledge it never does, and Morrigan claims that Flemeth is a great threat to Thedas, but offers no proof.  Sorry, there is nothing in any of that which makes me want to take Morrigan at her word about much of anything.

 

I don't think Flemeth gives a hoot about the mage templar conflict.  It is for all intents and purposes below her notice.  She assisted the Warden against the blight because it was the intelligent thing to do, she assisted Hawke, because she needed someone to take her horcrux to Dragon Mount or whatever it was called.

 

The very fact that Anders can blow the chantry up without the aide of Hawke kind of proves that Hawke isn't necessary for Anders to go psycho.

 

Again, I have seen more from Flemeth to trust her then from Morrigan.  Her partnering with the Warden was all about getting an OGB.

 

Again I don't think either of them will ever be an antagonist, I think they will be playing their own little game against each other.  Which of course Flemeth will win easily.

[EmperorSahlertz]

 

The very fact that Anders can blow the chantry up without the aide of Hawke kind of proves that Hawke isn't necessary for Anders to go psycho.

 

The very fact that Anders would've been caught and executed years ago without Hawke, is proof that Hawke IS necessary for the bombing of the Kirwkwall Chantry to take place.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We still don't even know what is meant by "gift"  For all we know it means that Flemeth passes on her power to Morrigan, Flemeth dies, and Morrigan takes her place as "Flemeth"again, we know something occurs, but we really don't have a clue what it is or what it involves. If it was simply possession and morrigan seases to exist, I doubt Yavana would be referring to it as a "gift".

 

Morrigan also says that the Warden needs to kill Flemeth, that Flemeth's book will tell her about the possession-which to our knowledge it never does, and Morrigan claims that Flemeth is a great threat to Thedas, but offers no proof.  Sorry, there is nothing in any of that which makes me want to take Morrigan at her word about much of anything.

 

I don't think Flemeth gives a hoot about the mage templar conflict.  It is for all intents and purposes below her notice.  She assisted the Warden against the blight because it was the intelligent thing to do, she assisted Hawke, because she needed someone to take her horcrux to Dragon Mount or whatever it was called.

 

The very fact that Anders can blow the chantry up without the aide of Hawke kind of proves that Hawke isn't necessary for Anders to go psycho.

 

Again, I have seen more from Flemeth to trust her then from Morrigan.  Her partnering with the Warden was all about getting an OGB.

 

Again I don't think either of them will ever be an antagonist, I think they will be playing their own little game against each other.  Which of course Flemeth will win easily.

We know ritual exist as morrigan said so she was telling truth on that matter so saying she was lying...

Well Yavana wasn't very sane person she would be easily one of that types that see being possessed by flemeth as gift or see that as great mean to extend life.As far we know ritual was real as morrigan said.

 

In fact we don't know if morrigan ever lied us because from now we don't have any proof that she did ritual thing was as far we know flemeth idea and reason why she sent morrigan with us.Diffrence is that morrigan never told us her goal or truth until the end what Flemeth does all the time.In the end all morrigan views and philosophy were from flemeth.Saying that flemeth is paragon of the sincerity and then morrigan call liar well isn't rather in place. 

 

 

Ultimately it was flemeth who raised morrigan (in abusive way) to be person she was in dao and it was flemeth plan to send her with ritual so pretty much if someone have problem with things morrigan did it goes on flemeth side as well.In dao she start push toward independence. 

 

[wcholcombe]

The very fact that Anders would've been caught and executed years ago without Hawke, is proof that Hawke IS necessary for the bombing of the Kirwkwall Chantry to take place.

Really you mean along with all the other blood mages and apostates that were running around kirkwall like there was no such thing as the templars?  There wasn't anything Hawke did that in anyway protected Anders.  Anders was there before Hawke, and I don't think would have had much trouble surviving without him.

[myahele]

Flemeth is pretty straight forward. She helps folks out and in return they have to do a favor for her. Marics agrees to reestablish wardens + meet with Yavana. Warden agrees to stop blight with an option to do the DR. Hawke agrees to deliver the amulet.

I have to admit, those that Flemeth helps all end up leading a tragic life.

For the most part Flemeth seems to have lead Morrigan to do what she wanted. Maybe her omniscience can't track Morrigan in the eluvian, but she certainly seams prepared.

Maybe Flemeth is making her strong so that she'll have a very powerful vessel?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Really you mean along with all the other blood mages and apostates that were running around kirkwall like there was no such thing as the templars?  There wasn't anything Hawke did that in anyway protected Anders.  Anders was there before Hawke, and I don't think would have had much trouble surviving without him.

No. I mean in the trap that was set specifically for Anders by the Templars.

[Rychen]

Really you mean along with all the other blood mages and apostates that were running around kirkwall like there was no such thing as the templars?  There wasn't anything Hawke did that in anyway protected Anders.  Anders was there before Hawke, and I don't think would have had much trouble surviving without him.

 

You're leaving out Meredith's part of the equation. Had Anders blown up the Chantry and Meredith not been completely corrupted by the lyrium idol (you know the one that Hawke found), events could have turned out quite differently.  Perhaps had the idol never been found Meredith would have only punished the real culprit and cracked down on the circle, but ultimately not availed herself of the right of annulment which sparked the mage-templar war.  We know that Bartrand sold the idol before Act 2 and according to Cullen, Meredith began becoming reclusive and paranoid (weekly interrogations of templars) between Acts 1 and 2.  Bartrand went completely nuts in what little time that he was in possession of the idol, who knows what it would do to someone who had it for as long as Meredith possibly held it.  So yes, it is POSSIBLE that had Hawke never gotten to Kirkwall that the Kirkwall annulment would not have been called and the war never started even had Anders still managed to make the chantry go boom. 

[ThomasBlaine]

No. I mean in the trap that was set specifically for Anders by the Templars.

 

There's no guarantee that that trap would actually have succeeded without Hawke, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have found other support through Varric if Hawke hadn't been there, there's not even any guarantee that Anders would have dared try to rescue his friend in the first place if Hawke hadn't promised backup, and if he hadn't then it wouldn't have changed anything in the long run. You cannot possibly use that as definitive evidence. At best, you could say that Hawke made it more likely for Anders to end up blowing the chantry, though even that's not certain as he might just as conceivably have made his move much sooner without Hawke's influence.

[Gearwarden]

Flemeth, nonstop.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There's no guarantee that that trap would actually have succeeded without Hawke, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have found other support through Varric if Hawke hadn't been there, there's not even any guarantee that Anders would have dared try to rescue his friend in the first place if Hawke hadn't promised backup, and if he hadn't then it wouldn't have changed anything in the long run. You cannot possibly use that as definitive evidence. At best, you could say that Hawke made it more likely for Anders to end up blowing the chantry, though even that's not certain as he might just as conceivably have made his move much sooner without Hawke's influence.

Varric's expedition would have failed without Hawke, so even if Anders miraculously escaped the Templar trap, then he would have been hunted down like a dog by the Templars. Bottom line: Anders would not have remained free in Kirkwall as long as he did, without Hawke.

 

Varric would have died in the Deep Roads and Hawke wouldn't be able to protect Anders, which means Anders would be captured.