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[Mcfly616]

ME1 - the best Mass Effect game

 

 

KoTOR - the best Bioware game

[CptFalconPunch]

ME1 - the best Mass Effect game
 
 
KoTOR - the best Bioware game

The light and Dark sides in Star wars is ridiculous enough as it is. I can't see how people who aren't star wars fans would like KOTOR.

But kudos, KOTOR holds its ground even to this day. Although I could never understand how NOONE could recognize Raven. People started recognizing him conveniently after the plot twist.

[Mcfly616]

Probably because they did Star Wars better than any of the films did.

 

 

 

Still the best plot twist in gaming til this day...

[CptFalconPunch]

Probably because they did Star Wars better than any of the films did.
 
 
 
Still the best plot twist in gaming til this day...

Hmm I see, I did enjoy both KOTOR 1 and 2.


How was it the best plot twist? From a non star wars fan, how did it even matter? You apparently were a person you've only heard about. So what? It doesn't change anything from where I stood. The game had me set to follow the light or the dark. Being an ex dark lord wasn't anythign amazing. Both the dark and the light sides are twats anyway.

Meanwhile the plot in mass effect affects everything in its universe, from the perception of the name of the game to the combat, travel, the citadel etc. A plot twist that actually means something and turns the game upside down. All that while introducing the most badass villain ever. Eat it Vader

[Rithmerdui]

CptFalconPunch
I was going to quote some stuff you wrote but I got signed out lol. Ain't the first time it happens to me around here. I should stick with small posts and keep things brief.

I liked the RPG elements in ME1 and KOTOR.

I respect your opinion and anyone else posting suggestions in this thread.

Some game developers stick to their roots. others evolve their gameplay, plot and characters constantly between games. Look on just any developer out there.
Ubisoft Asassins Creed series etc. They had roughly the same gameplay/themes the first few games until the recent ones where they added and made changes.

 

Anyway maybe we should return back to topic.

Minor grammar correction in this post.
Edited and expanded my suggestions in earlier posts. Rather not repost them.

Modifié par Rithmerdui, 27 juin 2014 - 12:09 .

[Mcfly616]

Hmm I see, I did enjoy both KOTOR 1 and 2.


How was it the best plot twist? From a non star wars fan, how did it even matter? You apparently were a person you've only heard about. So what? It doesn't change anything from where I stood. The game had me set to follow the light or the dark. Being an ex dark lord wasn't anythign amazing. Both the dark and the light sides are twats anyway.

Meanwhile the plot in mass effect affects everything in its universe, from the perception of the name of the game to the combat, travel, the citadel etc. A plot twist that actually means something and turns the game upside down. All that while introducing the most badass villain ever. Eat it Vader

 For anyone who was born after the original Star Wars movies were released, the twist was lost on them. (hell, there's people that know that line/twist that haven't even seen Star Wars). Kids were crying in theaters. To reveal that the hero's father is the ultimate villain, was unprecedented for mainstream Hollywood at the time. Revealing that 'you' (the main character) are the legendary ultimate villain that set all these events in motion, was pretty much unprecedented in mainstream gaming at the time. Let alone, a game that let you choose what to do with this new found knowledge for the last 1/4 of the game....also very different. Or atleast much more impactful than anything that came before.

 

 

 

And just to clear up any confusion, the Jedi you were around, knew you were Revan. They purposely hid it from you in order to see if there was any 'good' left in you.

[Iakus]

Probably because they did Star Wars better than any of the films did.

 

 

 

Still the best plot twist in gaming til this day...

I'd say Planescape: Torment had a better twist.

 

But KOTOR's twist was still amazing

[Hipster7]

ME 1 and 2 were good.  ME 3 wasn't, based on what the fans said.

 

An intelligent person would find out what was different and set it straight to give ME4 a good shot at not being spam.

[Mcfly616]

ME 1 and 2 were good.  ME 3 wasn't, based on what the fans said.

 

An intelligent person would find out what was different and set it straight to give ME4 a good shot at not being spam.

  an intelligent person would know that ME2 was pretty much balls (in the grand scheme of things) regardless of what "fans said".

[KaiserShep]

ME 1 and 2 were good.  ME 3 wasn't, based on what the fans said.

 

An intelligent person would find out what was different and set it straight to give ME4 a good shot at not being spam.

 

I think one of the big mistakes was sticking firmly to this ancient evil and all-consuming force that threatens the entire universe. In and of itself, it's simply not interesting. The reveal of why the reapers were doing what they were doing was equally so, and while this is also clearly a fault present in ME3 (2 doesn't get off the hook with that whole human slurry reveal), I think it's a major fault also for requiring players to carry on for so many hours through the trilogy just to get to it. Synthetic wars, dark energy...it doesn't really make a difference which. In the end, giant things are burning the game universe and we have to press a button or throw ourselves into the fiery pit of destiny to stop it. I had as much interest in knowing why the reapers were doing this as I do in what must be going through a moth's brain as it beats its head against a light bulb.

 

If ME4 knows what's good for it, it will avoid aping anything remotely like the reaper plot entirely and restore some of that optimism about life in space that was present in ME1, at least before Shepard suddenly got a case of paranoia about the reapers, hooking us into a sequel.

[Bob from Accounting]

The amount of people ready and willing to delude themselves on this simple issue is staggering.

 

To make claims, that because they didn't like the ending, the Reapers were always a bad idea and an antagonist they never cared about and always knew would end in failure for Shepard.

 

And it all boils down to the simplest thing: incompetence. Incompetence at imagining any way things possibly could have gone better.

[CptFalconPunch]

CptFalconPunch
I was going quote some stuff you wrote but got signed out lol. Ain't the first time it happens to me around here. I Should stick with small posts and keep things brief.

I liked the RPG elements in ME1 and KOTOR.

I respect your opinion and anyone else posting suggestions in this thread.

Some game developers stick to their roots. others evolve their gameplay, plot and characters constantly between games. Look on just any developer out there.
Ubisoft Asassins Creed series etc. They had roughly the same gameplay/themes the first few games until the recent ones where they added and made changes.
 
Anyway maybe we should return back to topic.

No I liked the RPG elements too, I didn't like the RPG elements in ME2, or that they were evolving around the planet scanning mechanic.
 
I like devs that constantly advance eveyrthing in the series, but gameplay stagnation is one of the many reasons I got bored of assassins creed. Sticking to your roots shouldn't be an excuse for having an incredibly repetitive and entirely similar game. Assassins creed was fun in 1. Even more in 2. Less in 3. Go bored after that :/ I don't want the same happening to Bioware games. 

I'd rather haves ome half assed features if it means we're making progress. Just don't let them get out of control.

 

For anyone who was born after the original Star Wars movies were released, the twist was lost on them. (hell, there's people that know that line/twist that haven't even seen Star Wars). Kids were crying in theaters. To reveal that the hero's father is the ultimate villain, was unprecedented for mainstream Hollywood at the time. Revealing that 'you' (the main character) are the legendary ultimate villain that set all these events in motion, was pretty much unprecedented in mainstream gaming at the time. Let alone, a game that let you choose what to do with this new found knowledge for the last 1/4 of the game....also very different. Or atleast much more impactful than anything that came before.
 
 
 
And just to clear up any confusion, the Jedi you were around, knew you were Revan. They purposely hid it from you in order to see if there was any 'good' left in you.

No, the movie twist was impressive, I say so myself. One of the most iconic villains of all time, darth vader, is revealed to be the father of the protagonist, Luke skywalker, a phellah we relate to and would like him to succeed.

In KOTOR though, Revan is someone you only hear from NPC's. They say he's dangerous through repetitive lines across the entire cast of characters, and a ****** that wants to kill everyone (obvious exaggeration).

 

So when you're revealed to be that ****** it isn't surprising because it doesn't change anything. You were on your way to becoming the ****** or the "good hero" anyways because of your morale system.

So we have a non-impactful plot twist revolving around a silent protagonist with no personality, a villain that was only described by some NPC's through repetitive lines and Mallack, who is a ******, but a rather boring one (imo).

 

In Mass Effect though the plot twist revolves around the most crucial parts of the game, the universe and its technology, which is being used everywhere. The impact is palpable.

[Mcfly616]

No. It's actually quite subjective. Idk why you keep bringing up Mass Effect. Obviously the impact you have in Mass Effect has a 'mass effect' on the galaxy. That's the entire point. KoTOR is a much more character focused narrative. Basically everyone in the galaxy has heard of Darth Revan (not just a few NPCs). Whether or not there was a silent protagonist or repeated lines of dialogue really doesn't mean squat. Technological limitations doesn't take away from a twist. That's a ridiculous notion. Not to mention many RPGs still use silent protagonists til this day.

 

 

Some people would say it changed everything. I for one, completely changed face after they revealed who I was. I was still going to take out Malak. However, I could give a rats ass about the Jedi and their lies. I took back what was mine.

 

 

I guess I lied. It's not really subjective. It's safe to say you're in the extreme minority of the gaming community when it comes to your feelings towards the KoTOR twist. It's praised as the most memorable moment of one of the most memorable games of that console era. (not to mention being a licensed product of the most memorable movie saga of all time). 

[Dale]

Regarding WEAPONS MENUs:  

 

I'd like to suggest something the oil & gas industry uses down here when comparing various items, pressures, voltages, etc.   Please follow me in CONCEPT (not spin off in a technicality).

 

In our situation, we have acquired 10 different assault rifles in the inventory.   This could also be shotguns, pistols, armor, etc.    Assume two (2) attributes of our interest are damage & accuracy.   The information we need can be shown WITHOUT SCROLLING.   On the bottom of the screen are ten vertical bar graphs representing damage.   Right above, the same vertical bar graphs is another group  (of 10 bars) showing accuracy.    

 

At the bottom of each bar graph is a number (1-10) representing the specific rifle.   At the top of each bar graph is a number representing the graph's physical attributes (ie: 100,250,387, etc).  This shows both visual and numeric values.

 

To the left of each group of bar graphs is a check-box which SORTS the bars to your preference.   If accuracy is important to you, then check that box.  If damage is important to you, then check that.   You can quickly (5-10 seconds) assess exactly what you want, then click the number at the bottom (say #3) to equip  that weapon.

 

For weapon mods, they appear as a vertical list (right side).   Check the box next to each mod to apply.   Next column (to right) shows various ammo.  Check which one you want.    I THINK with this layout, [most] everything we're interested in appears on ONE panel.   

 

A thin LEFT-column is used for quick [hierarchical] navigation to the item you're interested in (armor, sniper, heavy weapons, etc).

 

Please -- instead of throwing rocks at each other -- let's give Bioware some ideas they can work with.    Suggestions are the reason I started this thread.   I appreciate the thoughts I've read so far -  omit one juvenile sarcastic tantrum (now on my IGNORE list).  Thanks for your  input & keep those ideas coming.

Thanks

[AlanC9]

We really can never be sure what Drew's intentions were. However, the first game radiates Lovecraftian horror and cosmicism. It is filled with mysteries, from the citadel to the mass effect.

Huh? The mass effect is quite well understood in-universe. It isn't a mystery; this is just how physics works in the MEU. And the Citadel "mystery" is explained. As for intentions, we know what those are because Drew spoke about the process, on multiple occasions. The question was always how to explain the Reapers, not whether to explain the Reapers.

If you thought that the Reapers were going to remain a mystery, you were wrong. End of story. ME was always sci-fi, where mysteries are explained, rather than fantasy, where they're sometimes not.

As for whether these are the themes that made the first one good-- assuming the first one was good -- as you've acknowledged, the vast majority players never bought into that stuff in the first place. So how is not continuing with something that people didn't pay attention to in the first place supposed to cause a problem?

[AlanC9]

In our situation, we have acquired 10 different assault rifles in the inventory.   This could also be shotguns, pistols, armor, etc.    Assume two (2) attributes of our interest are damage & accuracy.   The information we need can be shown WITHOUT SCROLLING.   On the bottom of the screen are ten vertical bar graphs representing damage.   Right above, the same vertical bar graphs is another group  (of 10 bars) showing accuracy.    

What happens to the other stats, like RoF?

[Jaulen]

What happens to the other stats, like RoF?

 

Also weight and capacity.

 

would need weight if they keep the weight negatives for power regen.

and capacity. I hate having to reload. after. every. shot.  (but sniper rifles are so fun! although headshotting with hand cannon also fun.)

[Dale]

Also weight and capacity.

 

would need weight if they keep the weight negatives for power regen.

and capacity. I hate having to reload. after. every. shot.  (but sniper rifles are so fun! although headshotting with hand cannon also fun.)

Good point Jaulen.  Hopefully this WEIGHT issue will disappear as it was first introduced in ME3.   Bioware, keep it simple: 3 weapons; forget weight, go on.  

 

If Bioware is obstinate about weight, then multiple bar graphs would easily cover this.   For example you could have 6 bar graph groups on a single page.  Click bar graph #3, and column #3 lights up in all 6 groups. It is a QUICK way to see & compare info without scrolling.  

 

Also (Bioware), it would certainly simply things if EVERYBODY had access to the same weapon inventory.  To each their own, but I ONLY use assault rifle & sniper -- with one exception (ME2 grenade launcher was my favorite as other heavy weapons were too clumsy and slow). 

 

Also it would be nice for the squad members to AUTOMATICALLY select their own weapon they are skilled at for the current situation.  For example, Thane & Garrus should automatically switch to sniper for distance targets instead of that being the player's (us) decision.   Grunt might switch to shotgun for close-ups.   This is common sense and something ELSE we players don't need to think about during a shootout.

 

I do like using HOT keys to modify weapon ammo & firing "concusive" grenade shots.   Great job there.

[dreamgazer]

I actually like the weight system quite a bit in ME3.

[Pateu]

Yes, stopping 1 fragile ship and risking your life instead of finding ways to beat the reapers, is certainly logical.

 

The Collectors are Reaper troops.

 

Bazaam.

 

 Top notch writing and observation skills. I hope you never become a leader of anything.

 

And I hope you're being obtuse on purpose.

[Heimdall]

What's this thread about now?

 

Well, I spy a discussion of plot twists in Bioware games anyway.  Jade Empire had the best twist, completely sucker punched me at the time.  It was also the reveal of an excellent villain, one of if not the best Bioware has ever constructed.

 

Going forward, I think Bioware needs to keep in mind what they did right in Jade Empire.  Ancient evil threats are all well and good, but you need to give them a face to be effective and the PC needs some form of personal stake in the matter.

[Drone223]

I actually like the weight system quite a bit in ME3.

Yeah, it adds for some interesting gameplay and also prevents power heavy classes from having, widow, claymore and N7 typhoon at the same time. It should be improved in the next game so weapon dependent classes can hold more heavier weapon's.

[Darth Death]

Assuming there'll be another trilogy, BioWare needs go back to what made Mass Effect a great game. They (BioWare) needs to replay the first Mass Effect several times over. 

 

 

For me, it's subtlety. Little things I feel people care about & also leaves a noticeable impact:

 

 

Sidequest

 

-Since Bioware is moving towards the open-world audience, they should capitalize on features the first Mass Effect had established. In Mass Effect the player had the choice to travel in a mako or on foot. The toxicity of the planet was a deciding factor to which approach might be safest, but the choice was intact to the player. The planets themselves were spacious with a few key points that could be reviewed when looking at your map. BioWare needs to recapture this & expand upon it. Have some planets be explorable with intelligent questing as a companion, have at least 2-3 sidequests to each planet allowing different ways to tackle the quest, and lastly permit a follow-up of the player's choices. In Mass Effect, you had a choice to either resolve a quest peacefully or violently, but ultimately your choice would be reviewed by Admiral Hackett who is either surprised or understanding towards the situation.    

 

 

Worlds to explore

 

-Places like the citadel in Mass Effect was iconic to the entire series, but the treatment it received was dismal. With each passing game, the citadel became smaller in scale & uninteresting to explore. Bioware needs to recreate a place where it's expansive, memorable, & engaging. There needs to be people doing things, moving about, interacting with others (perhaps even the protagonist if you're near). The world/places needs to feel alive and relevant to its setting. Remember the small things like drinking or playing cards (not that it existed in the ME series, playing cards). Allow players to run around with their weapons unsheathed & allow npcs to react. Sometimes it's the small things people care about or at lease remember.

 

 

Insubordination

 

-Assuming our protagonist is apart of the military, let there be occasions where the player can cut transmissions, talk back/interrupt, speak crassly to our superiors. Depending on what choices the player makes may affect their rank, status, relationship, etc.        

 

 

Timed Missions

 

-Now, I know the consensus of the people here concerning timed missions, but I feel it will add a dimension of realism (lack of a better word) when approaching questing. For an example, pretend there's a civilization that needs your assistants from relentless slavers on a distant planet. You (the player) receive an e-mail describing its urgency. The e-mail also informs the possible consequences if you decide to take your time. Let's say you chose to play another mission instead, you (the player) receive another e-mail updating the protagonist to the already bad situation. You learn that half of the civilization is taken captive & are being stored in a shuttle for take off. One quest away will determine the outcome of the mission. This is in resemblance of Mass Effect 2's suicide mission.       

 

 

 

There's more I'd like to add, but I'll cut it short. The subtle things are just as important.  

[KaiserShep]

I actually like the weight system quite a bit in ME3.

So do I. I very much prefer having total freedom on weapons training, and simply managing it around my Shepard's abilities.

[AlanC9]

-Places like the citadel in Mass Effect was iconic to the entire series, but the treatment it received was dismal. With each passing game, the citadel became smaller in scale & uninteresting to explore.

The ME2 Citadel was larger than the ME3 Citadel? That wasn't my impression.

Your propositions are fairly expensive. Nothing wrong with that, but if they're in, what's out?