200 réponses à ce sujet

[starfrak]

Your concern is appreciated.

 

Hmm. Something I found really interesting about Morrigan is how genuinely compelling she was as a character, if not as a person. She wasn't a very pleasant companion, but she was so well-written that a lot of players were drawn to her regardless. Okay, she was pretty beautiful too, but I still like to think that her writing did all the heavy lifting. If they could pull that off with Vivienne it'd be awesome. She's just so culturally extreme that it looks like it's going to overshadow her personality, which isn't described as particularly likable in the first place.

 

I mean, I live in a country where women who so much as wear noticeable make-up and/or jewelry in casual settings are viewed as being silly and copying American women, and I think I'm going to bluescreen every time I look at Vivienne's or Scribble's getups.

 

probably the most racist thing i've seen today, kudos.

[daveliam]

Well a person choosing to hang out with a specific demographic of people and  a person who just happens to find himself/herself in the company of of several random people due to various circumstances are very different things. Surely you can see that. There is no real indication that the fantasy world of Dragon Age has a significantly higher if at all percentage of people of LGB leanings so we can't just assume that. Do we know that it's much more excepted? Outside of the actual relationships themselves should a player choose to peruse one such relationships seem to be treated with a mild, unspoken tolerance at best as it hasn't come up enough to clearly determine. 

 

I would argue that we do have evidence that there might be a larger percentage of LGB people in Thedas.  The LI options serve as this evidence.  We've seen 9 romances across the two games and 2/3 of them were with bisexual individuals.  I always find it interesting when people use the "too many bisexuals" and the "no evidence of LGB demographics" argument together because, to me, they are contradictory.  Yes, there have been  a lot of opposite sex couplings in DA.  But of the people whose sexualities we are privy to, there are more bisexuals in that group than one would expect to see in a "similar group" on Earth.  To me, that is evidence about demographics, yet instead of recognizing it as such, people dismiss it.  That seems subjectively selective to me.

[Feybrad]

Because then their romance options would be a black woman or a bisexual woman.

Yes, people have already grumbled about this.

 

It's official. I hate Humanity.

 

There are seriously People who are offended by this? And they STILL play Dragon Age?

 

And yes, I kinda knew it would happen, but I still hoped it didn't.

[daveliam]

It is interesting to note that straight or bi, Vivenne will be the first black female companion character in a Bioware game ever and the first non white human companion character in a dragon age game. (i don't count Isabella because I remember what she looked like in Origins so i have to assume she simply got a makeover at the Black Emporium)

 

Dynaheir would like to have a word with you.  Interestingly, she is also a fairly haughty mage.  I noted their similarities (fairly superficial, of course) months ago.

 

Also, Isabela was the darkest skin tone that you could get in DA: O.  It has been confirmed that she was intended to be a PoC the whole time.  They were just able to better implement it in DA2.

 

Also, also, Jade Empire had three human females who were asian and SWTOR has several female humans who are PoCs as well (but this one is more questionable because you can "customize" their race with an item slot).

[wetnasty]

I'm not sure what you mean wetnasty. Why would such people care if Vivienne was straight? *confused*

 

Considering how some DA2 critics were pissed because the "only 2 options for male Hawke were a **** and an ugly elf" I can see what they would be saying if Cassandra and Vivienne end up being the "only options" for them. 

[nightcobra]

Since Cullen is a LI, maybe there's a non party member LI for the boys.

 

Who knows?

[wetnasty]

4/6 people in a random group being LGB is not "unrealistic". Even in the real world, it's not some huge shock. I very often hang out with groups of more than 6 people that are entirely gay or bi. I assure you, not yet has any of us spontaneously combusted in order to keep the gay from reaching critical mass. We don't know that the demographics of LGB people are exactly the same in Thedas as in our world. It's entirely possible that there are more LGB people, generally, making the odds of having 4/6 even higher. We know it's much more accepted in Thedas. It doesn't seem such a stretch that it's also more common.  

 

3/6 of my cousins (with me included) are LGBT, and I know people with a 75% LGBT split between their siblings, so this thought that being straight HAS TO OCCUR IN MOST OF ANY GIVEN POPULATION is the thing that seems the most unrealistic to me. 

 

The odds go down as the population increases but if we're just flipping coins, you could have 100% tails and not a single heads in 6 flips. That's just the crunk lil' G. Welcome to life. 

[Gwydden]

Because then their romance options would be a black woman or a bisexual woman.

Yes, people have already grumbled about this.

Considering how some DA2 critics were pissed because the "only 2 options for male Hawke were a **** and an ugly elf" I can see what they would be saying if Cassandra and Vivienne end up being the "only options" for them. 

At this point I have the lurking suspicion people are just whining for the sake of it.

 

Plus they're jerks, of course. That's just obvious.

[HiroVoid]

I would probably steer the discussion away from racists being racists since I don't see that discussion leading anywhere particularly productive.

[Mr.House]

It's interesting that apparently both bi and gay companion characters are now mandatory from here on out. Seems a bit forced of forced pandering if you ask me. Especially if there are two mandatory gay exclusive companion characters for each gender. I think a way of making this seem less contrived and forced would be going the way of ME:3 by allowing romances outside of companion/crew characters. 

Ya because token gay/lesbian NPCs, no romances for straight females if Kaidan was killed on Virmire and you did not romance Garrus and a crap tone of females for straight male is "the way to go".

[ThomasBlaine]

probably the most racist thing i've seen today, kudos.

 

Unlikely, at worst it's a little culturally bigoted. It has nothing to do with race, though. And don't tell me she doesn't look completely ridiculous.

[KC_Prototype]

For Straight males, I'd say:

Cassandra

Vivienne

Scribe girl

[Jaqen21]

I would argue that we do have evidence that there might be a larger percentage of LGB people in Thedas.  The LI options serve as this evidence.  We've seen 9 romances across the two games and 2/3 of them were with bisexual individuals.  I always find it interesting when people use the "too many bisexuals" and the "no evidence of LGB demographics" argument together because, to me, they are contradictory.  Yes, there have been  a lot of opposite sex couplings in DA.  But of the people whose sexualities we are privy to, there are more bisexuals in that group than one would expect to see in a "similar group" on Earth.  To me, that is evidence about demographics, yet instead of recognizing it as such, people dismiss it.  That seems subjectively selective to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because like it or not it's largely a fanservice element of the game and has yet to demonstrated that it reflects the demographics of Thedas as a whole. Surely you aren't suggesting that this in this world we are to believe that 2/3 of the people have LGB leanings? I mean it's entirely possible given it's a completely fictional  world but  most basic elements like this outside of player specific content have been grounded in realism  and as far as I know Bioware has never come close to suggesting  something like that and I doubt they ever will.  

 

[daveliam]

Because like it or not it's largely a fanservice element of the game and has yet to demonstrated that it reflects the demographics of Thedas as a whole. Surely you aren't suggesting that this in this world we are to believe that 2/3 of the people have LGB leanings? I mean it's entirely possible given it's a completely fictional world but most basic elements like this outside of player specific content have been grounded in realism and as far as I know Bioware has never come close to suggesting something like that and I doubt they ever will.

I am suggesting that you continue to use Earth as a reference point for demographics, then complain that there are too many LGB people, then say that we have no knowledge of Thedas demographics. This is an illogical argument. Thedas =\= Earth so your initial reference point is moot. And we DO have evidence of demographics around sexual orientation and it suggests that there are more LGB (particularly bisexual) people than you would expect on Earth.

[KC_Prototype]

3/6 of my cousins (with me included) are LGBT, and I know people with a 75% LGBT split between their siblings, so this thought that being straight HAS TO OCCUR IN MOST OF ANY GIVEN POPULATION is the thing that seems the most unrealistic to me. 

 

The odds go down as the population increases but if we're just flipping coins, you could have 100% tails and not a single heads in 6 flips. That's just the crunk lil' G. Welcome to life. 

Well, considering majority of the worlds population is straight, I don't see that happening often.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

Because then their romance options would be a black woman or a bisexual woman.

Yes, people have already grumbled about this.

 

Who are these "people"? No one complained about Isabella and Merril and both of them were bisexual. I'd prefer both of them over what we're getting now.

 

BTW, if you're going to be call out people for racism, be specific, give examples and don't generalize. Vivenne isn't that attractive to me and it has nothing to do with her skin color. (I'm black as well) 

 

Other people may dislike her for that and other reasons, (such as her being an Ice Queen) but not for being black.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

 

 

 

There have also been no hints that Scribbles or Viv are bisexual and yet you made that assertion in the last page. I understand making guesses, but saying Cass is straight because there has been no evidence of her liking women is silly. A bisexual woman liking men is entirely within the realm of possibility for a bisexual woman, so keep that in mind. 

 

 

 

Their post seemed completely calm to me. Telling them to calm down kind of dismisses their argument, and it's a sort of valid one.

 

Even within the context of Bioware games, I think straight men especially need to take a few breaths and have some self awareness in that not only do we currently not know much of anything about any of our romance choices (so complaining and saying there are none you want is irrational), but in the past their wants and desires have usually always been "pandered" to while straight women and LGBT people have been left wanting. 

 

I'm not implying this is a "haha now you get to see how it feels" situation, no one needs to be childish about it, but if women and gay people can play and enjoy these games while maybe not getting the romance they wanted, you guys can too for once. 

 

 

Us "straight men" don't need to do anything. We're allowed voice our complaints about character designs and choices w/o this turning into an issue. What does bringing up past games have to do with opinions on romance choices and characters designs in DA:I anyway? I mean, other than trying to start a needless gender war argument.

 

The condescension in this post is just overwhelming. 

[Sylvianus]

I hope Cassandra and Vivienne are both romancable options and those who are angry can suck it up. Anyways, there might be Scribe girl as a nice addition.

[Demonique]

oR a male option for the male inquisitor would be nice, considering female inquisitors get sera.  which is awesome.

 

Male option for male inquisitor confirmed - http://www.dragonage...-profile-dorian

[Cheech 2.0]

With the amount of romances available of course not everyone will be happy, but you know what deal with it. I'd rather it be more inclusive of other people's romantic tastes than just cater to my preferences. Sometimes this forum really needs to have a nice cold glass of sit down and shut the f*ck up.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

With the amount of romances available of course not everyone will be happy, but you know what deal with it. I'd rather it be more inclusive of other people's romantic tastes than just cater to my preferences. Sometimes this forum really needs to have a nice cold glass of sit down and shut the f*ck up.

 

 

Yeah this'll add to the discussion  

[ThomasBlaine]

With the amount of romances available of course not everyone will be happy, but you know what deal with it. I'd rather it be more inclusive of other people's romantic tastes than just cater to my preferences. Sometimes this forum really needs to have a nice cold glass of sit down and shut the f*ck up.

 

With the amount of discussions on this forum, of course not everyone will be happy and appreciative, but you know what, deal with it. I'd rather people discuss things in the open than bottle up their disappointments and criticisms just so that the odd snob can walk through the discussions without seeing anything they don't agree with. Sometimes people on this forum really need to have a nice beer, loosen up a little and complain about the things they want to complain about, instead of the fact that someone else is complaining.

 

That's called free speech, open forums and minding your own business, all in one.

[Nashimura]

More of a matter of personal taste I guess. I think Cass looks a lot better in DAI and more realistic too. Same with Varric (although his hair color looks changed in most of the screenshots) and Morrigan looks the same to me with better skin due to the engine. Male inquisitors should feel lucky to have Cass. 

 

Edit: Assuming she is straight/bi of course..

 

I tried to choose my words carefully there, i don't think they necessarily look less attractive... like you said, they look more realistic. In DA2 Cassandra and Varric had flawless good looks while now they look much more rough, which is appropriate considering the lives they lead, which you would rather have is a matter of personal taste. 

[Ailith Tycane]

Us "straight men" don't need to do anything. We're allowed voice our complaints about character designs and choices w/o this turning into an issue. What does bringing up past games have to do with opinions on romance choices and characters designs in DA:I anyway? I mean, other than trying to start a needless gender war argument.

 

The condescension in this post is just overwhelming. 

 

Yeah you do. And it's relevant because when you whine it makes you seem oblivious to the huge advantages you have had in the past.

 

I'm not saying you can't be unhappy or dissapointed, but the level of entitlement in the complaining from a lot of male players that I have seen is pretty astronomical. It's why I can't blame people for feeling a bit smug when they were making fun of the men who were so upset that Sera is a lesbian love interest only. I don't think it's especially productive or kind, but I don't blame them because I understand the urge. It's satisfying deep down when a majority group doesn't get what they want for once and gets to see what it's like on the other side of the fence.

 

Bioware doesn't owe straight male gamers anything just like they don't owe gay gamers anything. If they include something in the game it's because they want to, and that includes lesbian, gay or straight love interests who are unavailable to some players. As David Gaider put it, "Thems the breaks" and that's really where the argument ends every time. Be upset, be dissapointed, just be a grown up about it. 

[Jaqen21]

I am suggesting that you continue to use Earth as a reference point for demographics, then complain that there are too many LGB people, then say that we have no knowledge of Thedas demographics. This is an illogical argument. Thedas =\= Earth so your initial reference point is moot. And we DO have evidence of demographics around sexual orientation and it suggests that there are more LGB (particularly bisexual) people than you would expect on Earth.

 

 

Please don't make assumptions to misrepresent where i'm coming from here. I'm not "complaining" about there being "too many LGB people". My issue is strictly concerning companion characters. There is nothing illogical about assuming that any given society does not consist of mostly LGB people. Of course in a fantasy universe with magic and dragons any thing is possible but still unlikely and I doubt the creators of this universe would support that theory. If that was their intention however, they need to grow a pair and say it as well as make it more apparent outside of companion LI.  Honestly I would like to see more miscellaneous LGBT npcs rather than being largely restricted to artificial, shoehorned companion LI quotas. Hell how about a  transgendered companion character/LI who isn't a joke? I'd like to see Bioware and friends  stop patting themselves on the back, congratulating themselves for being so progressive and inclusive and take further steps by making this not such an overwhelmingly Eurocentric(white) universe and giving some legitimate representation of the T in LGBT. How about it? Any takers?