200 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

One gets the feeling that several people are gleefully happy that straight guys aren't happy with their romance options. Same-sex romances make for interesting addition but you shouldnt be blind to the fact that the main demographic for Dragon age are straight male gamers. there are probably 10% gay gamers and 15% straight female and the rest straight male. and I think I am being generous here

 

Sera being female only romance wouldnt be a problem if there was a similar character for a m/f romance, but there isnt. It also doesnt help that Sera is the best looking female by far (perhaps not for all but for the appearent majority)

 

m/f options are atm downright bad or meh

 

cassandra: she isnt that bad, I liked her in DA2, what little we saw but that jaw ><. I swear they tried to make her look as manly as possible and simply put feminine eyes/eybrows on her. its damn jarring. she is also heavily driven by duty so I expect no lovey-dovey relationship there.

 

vivienne: characterwise seems off putting, ridiciulous outfit, and unattractive face (yes subjective but it seems to be shared among many others), also no lovey-dovey relationship with her character

 

scribbles: too little is known but similar looks to vivienne so meh also not a companion so you cant take along with you

 

 

 

lovey-dovey relationship: a merril or leliana type of character

 

I think thats the main gripe, we dont have a character to romance thats similar leliann or merril in the previous games. Sera seemed the only one to fit that bill. So once it was disclosed that she was f/f only it was obvious that there would be anger.

Just an observation, but it seems more like your main gripe seems to be you not liking the options Bioware gives you, not that Bioware doesn't cater to you. Since they just choose one character out of the four females who happen to be a lesbian, it's not like they do it with the intention of "let's choose the hottest girl to be a lesbian to get back at the straight guys". What if the character Sera didn't exist or not even romanceable at all? More romances were added after the push back afterall, so she may not even be romanceable in the first place. 

[Chernaya]

I find it extremely hard to believe that 75% of people who play this series are straight male gamers. Just the fact that Bioware is so progressive and open with it's games has probably attracted a more balanced audience than most other games which alienate their audiences by pandering to that logic and so therefore do fit into that percentage.

[ThomasBlaine]

I was using the language of the poster I responded to, why are you bugging me about how they choose to complain!

 

My post is addressed equally to both of you.

 

 

One gets the feeling that several people are gleefully happy that straight guys aren't happy with their romance options. Same-sex romances make for interesting addition but you shouldnt be blind to the fact that the main demographic for Dragon age are straight male gamers. there are probably 10% gay gamers and 15% straight female and the rest straight male. and I think I am being generous here

 

Sera being female only romance wouldnt be a problem if there was a similar character for a m/f romance, but there isnt. It also doesnt help that Sera is the best looking female by far (perhaps not for all but for the appearent majority)

 

m/f options are atm downright bad or meh

 

cassandra: she isnt that bad, I liked her in DA2, what little we saw but that jaw ><. I swear they tried to make her look as manly as possible and simply put feminine eyes/eybrows on her. its damn jarring. she is also heavily driven by duty so I expect no lovey-dovey relationship there.

 

vivienne: characterwise seems off putting, ridiciulous outfit, and unattractive face (yes subjective but it seems to be shared among many others), also no lovey-dovey relationship with her character

 

scribbles: too little is known but similar looks to vivienne so meh also not a companion so you cant take along with you

 

 

 

lovey-dovey relationship: a merril or leliana type of character

 

I think thats the main gripe, we dont have a character to romance thats similar leliann or merril in the previous games. Sera seemed the only one to fit that bill. So once it was disclosed that she was f/f only it was obvious that there would be anger.

 

Haven't yet seen any explicit anger over the reveal of Sera's orientation, and just because some people imply that since most Bioware fans are straight males the games should cater specifically to them doesn't mean that the rest of us feel that way. It's a nice summation, but it's not particularly accurate and it doesn't exactly help the issue either. Again, people theorizing about why we must feel so incredibly sorry for ourselves is what started this mess in the first place.

[Maria Caliban]

The main audience for Dragon Age: Origins was straight men and it still had content for straight women and queer men and women. Thedas was still far more gender equal than pre-modern Europe because they decided they wanted female gamers to feel as though their hero wasn't treated any differently than the male one.

I wish they'd made the population of the original game less white, but they've been increasing the number of CoC every game.

And that was 2009. Five years is a long time for the gaming industry.

The number of female gamers has increased. They currently make up 37% of gamers. Not of *casual gamers* but of people who play on X-Boxes and buy AAA games.



BioWare does not make games for straight male gamers. They make them for gamers: some of whom are straight, some of whom are queer, some of whom are women, and some of whom are men.

[Neon Rising Winter]

My post is addressed equally to both of you.

 

In that case you may colour me baffled. My point was of course people can express their disappointment - yes, even if they do feel gutted - but other people may in turn comment on this and not necessarily in a sympathetic manner. Is this terribly controversial?

[ThomasBlaine]

Your offense is misplaced, as I said before. If you were not one of those people who were saying sexist or homophobic things then those comments were not made for or directed at you personally, they were directed at the men who were. Which also happens to be where your anger should be placed, not at the women or gay people who point out that straight male gamers always tend to get more content than we do, and the ONE time we get a specific lesbian love interest is not a great loss or tragedy for straight male gamers. 

 

If you don't want people to "generalize" then you should come down harder on the men on these forums who are, in fact, homophobic, sexist and racist. 

 

 

 

No it's not.

 

"The romances in the game are not for “the straight male gamer”. They’re for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don’t need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant… and that’s ignoring the idea that they don’t have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The “rights” of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent “right” to get more options than anyone else." 

 

Okay, the guys who keep making the demographic argument deserve what they get, but the rest of us do not deserve to be addressed like that, we can't be expected to figure out which of us you're accusing if you don't specify at all, and it's not our responsibility that some don't feel the same way we do.

[Tiuwaz]

@Ailith Tycane

 

you are inferring the wrong thing. It does not mean that they shouldnt give those option of f/f m/m but that they should not neglect the f/m. As I said its not aproblem that Sera is f/f, its a problem that there is no similar character for f/m. You cant possibly think that wanting some satisifying romance options are a sort of entitlement?

 

Also that quote is nice and all but main demographic are still male gamers. Demographic doesnt mean = we do only what they want. Its simply the makeup of your customer base and yes any business takes theri customer demographic into consideration.

[Battlebloodmage]

Keep in mind that Bioware does not tailor LIs first, they make the characters first then decide who the LIs are, so it's just happened that there wasn't any character similar to Sera since they all have their own unique personality and quirks.

[Maria Caliban]

They have taken their customer base into consideration. And then they announced two same-sex exclusive romances before they announced any different-sex exclusive ones.

Given that BioWare probably knows its customer base better than you do, that's rather telling.

[Ailith Tycane]

Okay, the guys who keep making the demographic argument deserve what they get, but the rest of us do not deserve to be addressed like that, we can't be expected to figure out which of us you're accusing if you don't specify at all, and it's not our responsibility that some don't feel the same way we do.

 

I'm white and I can deal with people of color generalizing or complaining about "white people" without being offended because I have an understanding that my skin color, while I had no say in the matter, gives me certain privileges and benefits over those people on a societal level. It's not fair but it's how it is. Those people of color venting about white people are not venting about me as a person because I make a huge effort to not just NOT be racist myself, but to combat racism when I see it from other white people.

 

So again, if you acknowledge you have privilege and understand you are not one of those crappy people and were not doing those things, then there is absolutely no reason for you to feel offended.

[ThomasBlaine]

In that case you may colour me baffled. My point was of course people can express their disappointment - yes, even if they do feel gutted - but other people may in turn comment on this and not necessarily in a sympathetic manner. Is this terribly controversial?

 

If the unsympathetic commentators continually ignore that people do not, in fact, feel gutted, and treat it as simply an opportunity to bring their personal grudges and and grand philosophies about the horrid nature of a gender into a completely unrelated discussion? Yes, frankly.

[Tiuwaz]

Keep in mind that Bioware does not taylor LIs first, they make the characters first then decide who the LIs are, so it's just happened that there wasn't any character similar to Sera since they all have their own unique personality and quirks.

 

thats true and I like that approach, but I can still complain without being called a reincarnation of intolerance?

also I dont think a 2/2/2 split just so happened by chance after they made the characters, doesnt invalidate what they said but I severely doubt its mere chance

[Kisari]

Keep in mind that Bioware does not taylor LIs first, they make the characters first then decide who the LIs are, so it's just happened that there wasn't any character similar to Sera since they all have their own unique personality and quirks.

Yes. Something important to think about in terms of how the characters look that people might not have seen as it was posted a while back in the Cole thread:
 

 

Character appearance has less to do with the choice than you'd think. Discussions regarding who's romanced happen pretty early, when all we have to go on is early concept art--maybe. A lot can change between that time and release, and usually does. So the fact that someone is a romanceable character factors more into their appearance development later, rather than the other way around.

 

And it would be a lie to say it doesn't factor in to some extent. There's a limit to how much, of course. An artist being asked to make someone "conventionally attractive" sits about as well with them as someone asking to make a story "have more mass appeal" would have with me. Our interpretation of such a request would be that they want the character/story to be more boring, whereas we like the ugly bits that make something more unique and interesting. That said, if the character artists take a romanceable character and produce a face that we can't imagine anyone wanting to kiss, a discussion will be had no matter how "interesting" they think the character looks. That consideration, however, does not generally overrule everything else. It's a negotiation.

 

 

[Neon Rising Winter]

If the unsympathetic commentators continually ignore that people do not, in fact, feel gutted, and treat it as simply an opportunity to bring their personal grudges and and grand philosophies about the horrid nature of a gender into a completely unrelated discussion? Yes, frankly.

 

Edited - Actually if your complaint is thread derailing when you want to talk about the original topic, fair enough. Irrelevant gunk removed.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 28 juin 2014 - 01:04 .

[In Exile]

Give me Cassandra (who is awesome) and give me Viv (who is just plain gorgeous), and frankly I don't care about anything and anyone else. 

[aTigerslunch]

Male romance = racist remarks?  Any can be and met different variety but should this be a subject in male romances? I get the argument going on but starting to think its getting over a line in that regards.

 

Dorian is a male romance option and that also means Cassandra is to. Not sure if she is bi or straight though. Who else would guess, Solas, Bull, Scribbles, or Vivi? Bull and Scribbles or Vivi? Is what I lean with. Gay male will have two options himself is why I lean to Bull (statements he is pan I think). Think I missed someone, Cullen might be straight only.

[ThomasBlaine]

I'm white and I can deal with people of color generalizing or complaining about "white people" without being offended because I have an understanding that my skin color, while I had no say in the matter, gives me certain privileges and benefits over those people on a societal level. It's not fair but it's how it is. Those people of color venting about white people are not venting about me as a person because I make a huge effort to not just NOT be racist myself, but to combat racism when I see it from other white people.

 

So again, if you acknowledge you have privilege and understand you are not one of those crappy people and were not doing those things, then there is absolutely no reason for you to feel offended.

 

Really? And if a colored person stopped you in the middle of an unrelated discussion with someone else just to tell you, to your face, that white people have no right to complain about anything because they're spoiled by their circumstances, and then kept shouting and ranting to the same effect, sometimes referring directly to you and sometimes to white people in general? Even if you didn't in fact expect any sympathy in the first place? You wouldn't feel just a little bit offended? A little bit unfairly treated? What if that colored person's friends entered the fray and started piling on you and whoever you were talking to before, until some of the people they actually had a gripe with arrived, and you were then told that obviously if you weren't one of the heretofore-unspecified "bad" white people then it was your own fault for being offended in the first place?

 

Does that strike you as even remotely civilized behavior?

[Battlebloodmage]

Really? And if a colored person stopped you in the middle of an unrelated discussion with someone else just to tell you, to your face, that white people have no right to complain about anything because they're spoiled by their circumstances, and then kept shouting and ranting to the same effect, sometimes referring directly to you and sometimes to white people in general? Even if you didn't in fact expect any sympathy in the first place? You wouldn't feel just a little bit offended? A little bit unfairly treated? What if that colored person's friends entered the fray and started piling on you and whoever you were talking to before, until some of the people they actually had a gripe with arrived, and you were then told that obviously if you weren't one of the heretofore-unspecified "bad" white people then it was your own fault for being offended in the first place?

 

Does that strike you as even remotely civilized behavior?

Uhmm... Where in the world does this happen? I feel like I need to travel more.

[ThomasBlaine]

Uhmm... Where in the world does this happen? I feel like I need to travel more.

 

I'm just putting her own analogy into perspective, it's not a literal scenario.

[Tiuwaz]

well back to topic

 

do you think there are there only going to be 2 romance options for guys or more?

 

straight:

likely Cassandra

 

bi:

likely Vivienne

 

 

Scribbles has often been mentioned as possible LI, but is there any basis for that? Also yes I still want Sera. So "Want to trade Vivienne for Sera"

[Ailith Tycane]

Really? And if a colored person stopped you in the middle of an unrelated discussion with someone else just to tell you, to your face, that white people have no right to complain about anything because they're spoiled by their circumstances, and then kept shouting and ranting to the same effect, sometimes referring directly to you and sometimes to white people in general? Even if you didn't in fact expect any sympathy in the first place? You wouldn't feel just a little bit offended? A little bit unfairly treated? What if that colored person's friends entered the fray and started piling on you and whoever you were talking to before, until some of the people they actually had a gripe with arrived, and you were then told that obviously if you weren't one of the heretofore-unspecified "bad" white people then it was your own fault for being offended in the first place?
 
Does that strike you as even remotely civilized behavior?

 
First of all, that's not even remotely close to the example I gave. Second, that's also not even remotely close to what has happened in this thread. If you are that desperate to paint yourself as a victim then it's obvious nothing I will ever say to you will make you realize what my original point was anyway.

 

And to answer your question, no I wouldn't be offended.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

well back to topic

 

do you think there are there only going to be 2 romance options for guys or more?

 

straight:

likely Cassandra

 

bi:

likely Vivienne

 

 

Scribbles has often been mentioned as possible LI, but is there any basis for that? Also yes I still want Sera. So "Want to trade Vivienne for Sera"

Agree, this is starting to get over a line and I thought the original discussion of this thread is concerned about female companion romance option for male not a race and sexuality argument.

I'm not sure about Cassandra or Viviene's preference, but I expect to see more romance option for every gender with none companion character. I could be entirely wrong, and I wouldn't dare make speculation about Cass is straight or Viviene being bi or straight after seeing several previous comments.

[Tiuwaz]

 but I expect to see more romance option for every gender with none companion character.

 

quite possible since Cullen is a LI. personally I dont like that trend. I want to bring the LI along to the battles and forge the relationship on the road. So I sincerely hope Scribbles isnt a LI

[Ailith Tycane]

quite possible since Cullen is a LI. personally I dont like that trend. I want to bring the LI along to the battles and forge the relationship on the road. So I sincerely hope Scribbles isnt a LI

 

I agree. Adviser romances are okay, I just don't find them as fulfilling.