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What would you like to see in a module?


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#1
DiePikDame

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Hello there! I'm starting a project of creating a Neverwinter Nights 2 high level module (from level 15 and beyond), and I would like it to be what everyone who played and loved Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights wanted a module to be. So I'm starting a sort of survey to learn where other people's tastes and priorities lie, so, what would you like to see in a module?

 

Do you like romance to be an option or not? Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory? What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate? Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers? Do you like companion's bickering with one another? Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D? Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign? What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate? Do you prefer a lineal story or a more sandbox-like gameplay? Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures? Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options? Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not? 

 

Now, this is a very ambitious project, but I promise it will get done in time, so leave your suggestions, everything will be taken into account!

 

P.S: I am in need of certain blueprints for the plot I already have in mind, anywhere else other than the nwnvault to download them? Maybe they could be imported from another videogame?



#2
Morbane

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get creative

 

have a plan

 

try new things

 

forget your deadline

 

play some community mods

 

dream big

 

read the forum's historical posts

 

rinse, repeat



#3
Tchos

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I'm a great fan of Baldur's Gate and the other Infinity Engine games, so I think I represent a portion of your audience, and I'll answer as many of your questions as I can.

 

If it's level 15 and up, I expect to have the standard character wealth for that level at the start of the game.  That should be in the form of being able to import a character with that wealth (in gear and gold), and/or the module will level up a new character and give them the expected gold and well-stocked shops to spend it at.  (I offer both of these approaches in my module.)  The D&D DM Guide gives guidelines for how much wealth a player should have at each level, and I consider those to be reasonable and something to adhere to.

 

I like romance to be an option.  I usually pursue those options, even though they're often poorly made, including in those games named above.

 

What kind of companions do I like?  I'm not sure what aspect you're asking about, but I'll just give some examples of my favourite companions from BG.  I loved the personalities of Alora (cheerful), Edwin (amusingly arrogant), Imoen (cheerful again, and mischievous), Minsc (enthusiastically good and a bit insane), Viconia (interesting fish out of water), and Nalia (compassionate).  I didn't like Jaheira (nagging), Xan (gloomy and moaning), Dynaheir (incorrect use of Elizabethan English), and Kivan (more moaning and depression).  I also liked Aerie, except when she constantly bewailed her disfigurement.  There are a lot of other companions that I never actually had in my party, so I don't know if I liked them or not.

 

I like the inter-party bickering, except when it forces certain party members out of my party.  I want to experience specific personalities, and it's less important to me if they realistically would stick together.  I used a mod to keep the Baldur's Gate companions from leaving based on party member disagreements.

 

I like many options for dialogue, and I like the way BG offered them.  Rather long, detailed responses that allowed me to express a very strong point of view.  It didn't matter so much whether they led to different outcomes or not, as long as I could roleplay an opinionated character.

 

It doesn't matter to me if the villains are original or from the huge amount of source material available.  Likewise for other canon characters.  As long as the characters are well-written, with interesting personalities, it doesn't matter to me.  That said, the sourcebooks do provide very detailed, professionally-written characters ready to use.

 

What kind of quests I like and dislike is too broad a topic to start now.

 

Story-wise, I prefer freedom to approach quests in any order, even if it means I accidentally go to a place too tough for me at that time.  If I fail too much, I'll learn from my mistake and do some other things until I get stronger.  No level scaling, please.  A game can still be sandboxy while presenting a linear story if higher-level quests appear only in later areas, or if characters only start offering them after a certain progression in the game.

 

I really don't care about legendary plots, and prefer local, personal stories, but that doesn't mean those local, personal stories have to be "realistic".  I like a high magic environment.  Planescape: Torment was a local, personal story that had nothing to do with saving the world, yet was extremely fantastical and exotic.  If we're starting at level 15, though, we're so powerful already that it will pretty much have to be high magic and high fantasy for there to be any real threat or challenge.  At level 15, a wizard can cast 8th level spells, which is only 1 level below the highest level spells available outside of epic spells.

 

I prefer to define my character through my actions, not have a predetermined background.  Companions provide that latter kind of character.  And I like there to be a wide choice of companions.  (I provide 7 to choose from in mine, of which you can take 4 of them at a time.)



#4
Tchos

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As for alternatives to the Vault, try here and here.  Otherwise, can you be more specific as to what you need?



#5
ShinsFortress

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This sounds weird, but I'd be happy simply with something like SoZ over again but without the basic basic bugs it had.



#6
rjshae

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  • Do you like romance to be an option or not?

Not personally; to me they often feel contrived and shallow. But I know many players like them.

  • Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory?

I feel it's usually better to start a story with a bang, and having at least some suitable equipment lets me get right to it. Otherwise it feels like a scavenging mission.

  • What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate?

Personally, I like to have at least one or two companions that I'd like in real life. Nice, decent people who aren't jerks.

  • Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers?

As long as they are meaningful dialogue options.

  • Do you like companion's bickering with one another?

Only if it is colorful and not tedious.

  • Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D?

Either is fine.

  • Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign?

Not for just the purposes of cameo appearances. But otherwise I'm okay with it.

  • What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate?

I like exploration, solving puzzles/mysteries, and missions with multiple solutions. What I don't like are quests with a lot of repetitive back and forth travel.

  • Do you prefer a lineal story or a more sandbox-like gameplay?

A combination; I like a main plot that lets me roam, explore, and do interesting side quests.

  • Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures?

My preference is for having accomplished something meaningful in the end game. It doesn't need to be epic, as long as it has a significant influence on subsequent events.

  • Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options?

For higher level characters, I'd want to have already made a place for myself in the world.

  • Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not?

Too many character choices necessarily limits the conversation trees. I'd prefer fewer, but with more meaningful dialogue.


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#7
ShinsFortress

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Do you like romance to be an option or not?

Don't mind.

 

Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory?

Tricky, as importing "local vault" characters can quickly ruin any attempt at a fair challenge.

 

What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate?

never play evil characters. In AD&D terms I like to play Neutral Good.  There's enough evil in real life, so in a game I like to play the hero-types.  Whether glorious or unsung.  A party needs to be able to work with that, or they're no good to me.

 

Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers?

Yes, but don't devote excessive dev resource to this sort of thing.  Core gameplay and bug squishing come first.

 

Do you like companion's bickering with one another?

Only if it's in character or funny AND it doesn't significantly hinder me.

 

Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D?

Either.

 

Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign?

Don't mind.

 

What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate?

I like all sorts of quests, but too many "Fed-Ex" in a single game can get tedious.

 

Do you prefer a lineal story or a more sandbox-like gameplay?

Either is good.

 

Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures?

I prefer the former, but either can be good.

 

Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options?

Either, as long as I can make my character feel special in some way.

 

Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not?

Yes, prefer a varied assortment, but sometimes too much choice can be confusing!



#8
GCoyote

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With a nod to rjshae for the format  ;) :

 

Q - Do you like romance to be an option or not?

A - I you feel it will help the plot and you are comfortable writing it.  If the answer to either is "no" then it's best to avoid it.

 

Q - Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory?

A - I normally use FRW Character Creator so as long as I don't need a +5 suit of chromatic dragon armor just to survive the opening battle I don't care.  

 

Q - What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate?

A - Preachy druids, snarky thieves, i.e. card board cutout characters.  

 

Q - Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers?

A - Yes.  Especially if I'm role playing a PC likely to give such answers e.g. high charisma, higher intelligence, chaotic, etc.

 

Q - Do you like companion's bickering with one another?

A - Again, if you are comfortable writing such dialog, go for it.  Well done this ads to the immersion of the game.  Poorly done it's like a commercial that makes you want to leap for the remote control.

 

Q - Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D?

A - Original.  Cannon characters are there to provide a touch point.  

 

Q - Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign?

A - Original unless it makes sense to meet a specific character in a specific place.  You don't meet the leader of a major city unless you've got appropriate business with them.

 

Q - What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate?

A - I like investigation, exploration, warfare, and other quests that have their own rationale.  At 15th level I expect appropriate work, not running errands for some local lordling.

 

Q - Do you prefer a lineal story or a more sandbox-like gameplay?

A - More sandbox although I've seen some very well done linear stories too.  Either way, I prefer that the environment be relatively open.  Traversing a huge area while restricted to a snake like path only two characters wide just feels silly. 

 

Q - Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures?

A - HotU is my all-time favorite D&D.  If you can write that and do it well we won't see a product from you for a couple of years!  :D  A plot can be logical at the epic scale and still be very simple and personal.  A promise to a friend perhaps.

 

Q - Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options?

A - Create my own.  If done in-game at the beginning of the module, I can start to gauge how the author works and create a character that fits logically into his/her world.

 

Q - Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not?

A - I like to be able to pick what I need, e.g. don't force a character into my party that duplicates my PC.  OTOH if you can provide a rationale for why my party doesn't need a thief or a cleric or whatever to succeed, feel free to write it that way.  As long as I get enough info from the read me (heavy traps or none?) or opening sequence to gauge what I'm getting into, I'll try anything once.   B) 



#9
PJ156

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Heh GC did the typing I am going to use his work. Likely there's going to be less typos.

 

I have made a mod or two and I like to play that which I create:

 

Q - Do you like romance to be an option or not?

A - Yes, if it written well, I also like to feel bonds of friendship as well. More often than not that has to be in my head. If the game is well plotted then any attempt at either is fine as it provides some basis for the thought projection while playing the character.

 

Q - Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory?

A -  It does not matter though at lv 15 you are going to have to include a reason for not having equipment but that may be included in the plot itself.

 

Q - What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate?

A - One with lines that are relevant to the npc within the context of the plot and ones that support the experience of play. Mute npc's turn the game into a tactical one and those are the mods I like least. Companions should be interesting but not combative, were it real life I would have to chose to travel with these people, it is the same in game for me.

 

Q - Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers?

A - No, but then I am not a witty unconventional person. I want to be heroic and stoic, understated and someone who should lead a party. Save the witty and unconventional for the npc. Everyone likes to have a comedian around, they boost morale, but would they follow one. As the PC the npc's are following you, the responses you give should give them a reason to.

 

Q - Do you like companion's bickering with one another?

A - banter is a great addition to a mod if it is done well I like it. I do not like it when it forces me to chose npc's nor play one against the other. For instance, in the OC a comment may improve your status with Elanee and harm it with Neeska, I personally don't like that it compromises role play and, for me, almost turns the npc relationships into a strategy game. 

 

Q - Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D?

A - If it is plot relevant why not?

 

Q - Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign?

A -  If it is plot relevant I think it is a good idea if it fits your setting andother option is to mention canon npc's in dialogue. It anchors the plot and I love a good plot.

 

Q - What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate?

A - I like quests that flow with the plot and ones which present the inevitable stereotypes in a different way. I don't like pointless fetch and carry. For example the "Fetch me some wine" quest in Icewind Dale is something I hate, just give the PC some xp for his/her background and get on with the plot. 

 

Q - Do you prefer a linear story or a more sandbox-like gameplay?

A - I think I am a linear story man :) Sandbox can be mixed in regardless but the story is everything for me.

 

Q - Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures?

A - No, I hate them. What ever you do don't make me the spawn of a god nor the savior of the world. At level 15 I would expect some dire need and perhaps a little conversation with the gods (indirectly) but keep the pots down to earth.

 

Q - Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options?

A - A carefully prepared background is fine if I am led into it. Baldurs gate did this well as it engaged me with my past and allowed me to form a bond with it. Just a few paragraphs of text is only fine if it is not plot relevant where I came from.

 

Q - Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not?

A - Not fussed really but I would rather have two good ones than ten poorly fleshed out ones.

 

PJ



#10
Shaughn78

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First off you need to make a story thast you will enjoy bringing to a conclusion. While a survey is good to figure some of your approaches, you need to keep in mind you're making the story.

 

You mentioned BG and IWD, both are great games with a lot of similarities but thay also have major differences.

BG will play more like the OC. The player is the main character and they find companions to help out. The builder designs them, creates their backstory and offers interactions with the player. This is very time consuming but adds a whole bunch of depth to the story. You now have additional tools, the companions, to help tell and mold the story. Torment is a prime example of that. Each companion added to the story brought more content and background to the player.

 

A IWD type game would rely more on the SOZ party system. Now the player has control over the whole party and their creation and backstories. While this will save time in building you have given up a story telling component. Also with the SOZ conversation, in my opinion, you remove the need for skills. It doesn't take much for a party of min and maxes to be able to power through a conversation and get all the hidden bits, killing replayability. But again this is your story and take what any of us say with a grain of salt.

 

Do you like romance to be an option or not?

No romances. I find them to be hollow and unrealistic. I always skip over them, intentionally avoiding them since for me I find they break any type of immersion. When they are forced on the player that is just miserable.

 

 

Do you like to start with no equipment or to be able to import your pre-made character's inventory?

I would suggest stripping all items and gold and them adding a starting amount of gold and have a equipment store either in a lobby or preferably worked into the starting area. For balancing this will prevent an over powered character from importing in with everything or if a player pulls a character from a low magic/item mod they will not be left defenceless. Also unique items from another mod might rely on tag based scripts for their powers, when that character is imported in the items will no longer work and you will be blamed for breaking them.

 

What kind of companion characters do you like and what kind do you hate?

If you will be using companions like BG or the OC you need to balance out a party for the player to choose from. That being said, those companions need to have a reason for joining other than because you need X class to round out your classic party. This is the opportunity to make interesting characters to join as well, with a level 15 party you can make some interesting companions with strengths and weakness. This is where I would suggest searching through the vault or nexus for some interesting models. When it comes to companions I always fall back to Torment, the first person(?) to join you is a trash talking floating skull.

 

 

Do you like to be able to give witty, unconventional answers?

For conversation start first with your grammar and spelling, and you main core conversation for your "normal" responses. Choose 2 to 3 other type of responses and maintain that same choice type throughout. I don't want to occasionally be jerk, if I'm a jerk everyone should be able to know it.

 

 

Do you like companion's bickering with one another?

If you are able to write it and you are using the OC style conversation then go for it. As I said earlier this is a tool you can use. When making the crypt in the middle of a swamp you can add the yellowish fog, but a companion complaining about the choking stench will reinforce the area and add depth to your story telling (if that is what you are aiming for).

 

Do you like villains who are original characters or canon, famous characters from D&D?

Original villians. Name dropping is fine. So and so gave me this or I studied under this guy/girl, this ties into the FR world and gives the villian a bit more background.

 

Do you like to meet other canon characters from D&D in a campaign?

Just don't meet epic heros who are known for fixing the crap that the PC is currently struggling to fix. Why would they sit on the side lines and allow a world they saved multiple times fall into misery because the new guy couldn't step up and get it done.

 

What kind of quests do you like, what kind of quests do you hate?

With a level 15 party you get to do a lot more fun things. Break away from the standard quest and challange the toolset and your scripting. Create dungeons or areas with real puzzles that the player will need to work out. Create or find creatures with immunities and force the player to find ways to defeat them other than just beating the snot out of them. Cursed immortals that can only be hurt by weapons forged on a certain anvil. I fooled around with oozes and swarms, these Critters require a different appropach then most monsters and can bypass or destroy weapons and armor.

 

Do you prefer a lineal story or a more sandbox-like gameplay?

From experience I would suggest a lineal plot line for simplicity in creating and debugging. Then allow the side quest to be open, allow the party to stumble into a mess of nasty monsters that they will need to run from and return back later for a bit of extra loot and experience. It is also these side quest were you can explor more of the good vs evil or law vs chaos alignments. That way your plot quest line doesn't get bogged down wiht a "good" way or "evil" way to complete it. The side quest will allow the player to define themselves by doing this one and not doing the other one.

 

Do you like epic, legendary plots (kind of like Throne of Bhaal and Hordes of the Underdark) or do you prefer more realistic adventures?

This one comes to what do you feel like creating. This is your story.

 

Do you prefer to have your background predetermined (like in Baldur's Gate) or to be able to create it yourself through dialogue options?

I like a bit of a predetermined back ground if it fits and adds to your story. If you are creating an epic plot line then it will llikely add to it. If your a just a hire mercenary on a more mundane story line then it may take away from the story.

 

Do you like to have a varied assortment of companion characters to choose from or not?

Quality or quantity. Make then good and interesting. The orge mage that joined the party seeking revenge on the antagonist for betraying him. The problem is during the betrayal he was hit in the face with a battle axe and lost half is bottom jaw. Now, using a spell hook script, due to his difficulty in pronouncing spells correctly he will randomly miscast spells with chaotic results. The spell may be benificial, detrimental or prehaps a dozen fluffy white rabbits will appear. I woluld choose that guy anyday over a fighter tank. Just imagine the banter and interjections a companion like that could have...



#11
kamal_

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I like modules that don't try to cater to doing "what people want". Make what you want to, and it will be better than if you try to cater.


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#12
kevL

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+1 (sic)

 

i want to see *your* take on things : mundane or surreal, wave the magic wand and tell us all a tale



#13
ShinsFortress

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And where will it be?  With the Vault a dead mutant thing, where are all the modules anyway?



#14
Tchos

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The two remaining sites that I know of are:

Neverwinter Vault (new) (link filtered to NWN2 modules)

Neverwinter Nexus 1 and 2



#15
DiePikDame

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Thank you all so much for answering, I just read all your responses and now have a much clearer idea of what I want to do.

Of course I wasn't asking for instructions or a magic formula, but since I played Left 4 Dead and found out Valve tests its games on regular people to see how they react to the game and improve it, I have found surveys and testing an amazing way to create an unforgettable video game. 

Don't worry about romances and dialogues, I can write them just fine, I'm much more of a writer than I am a designer or scripter. I also hate when romance or companions are forced on the PC, so I will make sure that doesn't happen in anything I create. You have inspired me to do my very best with both characters and plot, and of course it will be a lengthy process, but I have lots of free time so I'll get it done.

Mostly, the characters I've been thinking of are very human and realistic, but perhaps I should include a couple of fun traits to them too (I keep thinking of some of your references to Planescape). The assortment of characters I have in mind is very varied (alignment, class and race-wise) and I'm happy to see everyone else also hates to see characters attack each other or leave the party because they hate each other, so I'll come up with some realistic way of keeping them all together even if they hate each other's guts.

 

If anyone else wants to add to what has been said, feel free to do so, every suggestion counts and helps me understand what makes a good gaming experience.

 

And of course, when it's done, I'll upload it to the new vault, nexus mods, maybe even provide a link on this forum, whatever is available at that time.


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#16
GCoyote

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I like modules that don't try to cater to doing "what people want". Make what you want to, and it will be better than if you try to cater.

In most cases I agree but then I (tried to) play Temple of Elemental Evil Revisited.  I hope the scraper got the comments from that one.  Lots of lessons on what not to do.  

 

But in the main you are right.  The story has to be one the author wants to tell and the module has to be something the author would actually enjoy playing.  The final product will certainly reflect this.



#17
Dann-J

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Romance = bad. Prostitutes = good.

 

Romancing a prostitute (Pretty-Woman-style) is a grey area.



#18
Arkalezth

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Boobs and explosions.

 

... But you have to finish the module first, so like the others said, whatever keeps you going. Perfect or not, getting the module built and released is the first step.