30 réponses à ce sujet

[cap and gown]

I have been thinking about a new Shepard and I wanted to check just how broken the dialogue would be if I try out various ideas, and whether one of them is even possible.

 

For this Shepard, she is going to start out somewhat xenophobic. I don't want her to recruit any aliens at first. Of course, Tali is going to be forced on her by Udina, but I wanted her to skip picking up Wrex and Garrus at first. Over time, however, I want her to come out of her shell and reconsider her attitude. I figure dialogue with Kaidan can help with this. Then when she gets to Virmire (mission order Feros -> Therum -> Virmire) she will be forced to have aliens in her squad, at which point she will start to appreciate that aliens are not all bad. At that point she will return to the Citadel and pick up Wrex and Garrus. But I have some questions about how this would work.

 

1) If you avoid going to the med clinic until after Virmire, can you still pick up Garrus?

 

2) If the answer to (1) is no, then if you turn down Garrus at the med clinic, can you come back later and recruit him the way you can recruit Wrex later?

 

3) How broken is Wrex's dialogue in later games if you recruit him after Virmire?

 

4) Can you avoid "embracing eternity" after Therum? I know you are forced to "embrace eternity" after Virmire, but for story reasons I would like to avoid it in the post-Therum debriefing.

 

5) How broken is Garrus's dialogue in later games if you don't recruit him in ME1?

 

6) Despite her initial xenophobia, I wanted her to end up in a romance with Liara. I figure the "embrace eternity" thing could establish a connection between her and Liara and open her up to that idea. How believable would that be?

 

[Abraham_uk]

I have been thinking about a new Shepard and I wanted to check just how broken the dialogue would be if I try out various ideas, and whether one of them is even possible.

 

For this Shepard, she is going to start out somewhat xenophobic. I figure dialogue with Kaidan can help with this. 

Kaidan is going to help Shepard overcome her xenophobia. Hmmm.

 

Kaidan: Yeah. So my fellow student was abused by a Turian.

Shepard: Damn Turians.

Kaidan: They're not all like that. No... They're not all like that. Damn it. It was a mistake telling you about Jump Zero.

[themikefest]

1 and 2 don't know since I haven't done it. If you can with Wrex I imagine it would be the same for Garrus

 

3 He still gives the same dialogue as if you recruited him at the beginning

 

4 No. You always have the embrace eternity after Therum. I'm sure your well aware to minimize the times you do is to get her after Virmire.

 

5 I noticed a bit difference mostly on Horizon in ME2. Instead of him saying something about the husk you see on the ground he will say nothing. In ME3 it will be like he was with you in ME1

 

6 Don't know.

[Abraham_uk]

Okay. Joking aside.

 

The game is pretty consistent with how Shepard has behaved.

You can make Ashley and Kaidan more tolerant or more xenophobic.

If you are mean towards squadmates, they will remember this even in Mass Effect 2 and 3.

 

There will be moments of inconsistency but nothing to completely ruin your role playing.

Unless Star Child ruins your game, but that's a different matter entirely.

[geth47]

1) If you avoid going to the med clinic until after Virmire, can you still pick up Garrus?

 

If you don´t go, you will be forced to recruit wrex, and garrus will be at c-sec near the elevator, and he will ask to come along. Since you already recruited wrex, you can dismiss garrus both at the clinic or at the elevator.  he will be at c-sec untill you steal the normandy, and can be recruited until that point. 



2) If the answer to (1) is no, then if you turn down Garrus at the med clinic, can you come back later and recruit him the way you can recruit Wrex later?

 

You can only turn garrus down if you already have wrex with you. The game forces you to recruit the first one you speak to.

3) How broken is Wrex's dialogue in later games if you recruit him after Virmire?

 

Never tried, but I suppose his ME3 dialogue on the party with Ash and on the salarian lab will be inconsistent with the story. The game will probably assume that there was a confrontation and shepard convinced him during the stand-off.

4) Can you avoid "embracing eternity" after Therum? I know you are forced to "embrace eternity" after Virmire, but for story reasons I would like to avoid it in the post-Therum debriefing.

 

I think so. If I´m not very much mistaken, if you do Feros and then therun (or is it feros, noveria and then therun) you only embrace eternity once. Well, twice considering shiala.


5) How broken is Garrus's dialogue in later games if you don't recruit him in ME1?
 

A lot. He will constantly remember about old times he never had with you and tali. Bioware seems to have taken for granted that he was recruited. Even in the genesis comics he is featured.

6) Despite her initial xenophobia, I wanted her to end up in a romance with Liara. I figure the "embrace eternity" thing could establish a connection between her and Liara and open her up to that idea. How believable would that be?

I think its better if you take liara to noveria with you, inquire if you can trust her (hoping her presence will smooth things with her mother), and after she has proven to be loyal, become more interested in talking to her. 

[cap and gown]

I think its better if you take liara to noveria with you, inquire if you can trust her (hoping her presence will smooth things with her mother), and after she has proven to be loyal, become more interested in talking to her. 

 

Good idea.

[CptFalconPunch]

Good idea.

Make sure you're using the HD graphics mod for ME1

[Abraham_uk]

Xenophobia is a little more complicated than one might think.

 

 

A person who is racist against black people can still have black friends.

A person who is anti-semitic can still have Jewish friends.

 

 

 

Think about it this way. Xenophobic Shepard does not trust aliens.

However, when faced with the prospect of a Reaper invasion, she begrudgingly calls out for all the help she can get. Even if that help comes from aliens.

That way you can have your racist cake and eat it.

 

Mmmmm racism has never tasted this good.

 

[BurningBlood]

You must recruit one of either Wrex or Garrus in order to get to Fist, which then of course leads to Tali and subsequently Spectrehood.

 

If you don't recruit Garrus, literally one line of dialogue changes in each of ME2 & 3:  one when "Archangel" is revealed, and one when he and James have their pissing contest on the crew deck (Garrus doesn't bring up having been with Shepard "since the very beginning").  He still makes comments about "old times".

[Farangbaa]

 

 

This... this... this is awesome. 

 

Reminds me of this:

 

 

But.. carry on.

[cap and gown]

Xenophobia is a little more complicated than one might think.

 

 

A person who is racist against black people can still have black friends.

A person who is anti-semitic can still have Jewish friends.

 

 

 

I can see this working with Shepard. Reminds me of that recent case of that NBA owner telling his black girlfriend not to bring blacks to his team's games.

 

I did an initial test run of going to Wrex first, and going to Garrus first to see what the dialogue looks like. Based on that I will probably choose Wrex as the first alien Shepard picks up. Although Shepard doesn't have a chance to express any distrust of aliens in that dialogue, it would probably make more sense for her to be less distrustful of Krogan than Turians since the game generally focuses more on the Turian/Human conflict. But the transition from "you can join us" to not picking him for the squad seems off. Basically, I want to go with an all human squad until Virmire.

[geth47]

Sometimes I think it makes more sense to go after Wrex and recruit him, forgetting Garrus. Story-wise, it sounds better.

 

When you are about to leave the citadel, Garrus appears, and says he left C-Sec. And then he asks to join the Normandy.

 

If you recruit him early, he will simply appear near the mako and thank you for bringing him.

 

But I had no word on the matter. My character agreed to let Garrus and Wrex tag along while on the citadel. But that was before Saren being exposed, the Council making me a spectre and giving me command of the advanced starship. 

When I first met them on the citadel I merely agreed to a temporary alliance in order to take down fist and expose saren. It had nothing to do with taking them along for interstellar voyages. The game should have a scene in which they ask to remain with you. 

[Abraham_uk]

I can see this working with Shepard. Reminds me of that recent case of that NBA owner telling his black girlfriend not to bring blacks to his team's games.

 

I did an initial test run of going to Wrex first, and going to Garrus first to see what the dialogue looks like. Based on that I will probably choose Wrex as the first alien Shepard picks up. Although Shepard doesn't have a chance to express any distrust of aliens in that dialogue, it would probably make more sense for her to be less distrustful of Krogan than Turians since the game generally focuses more on the Turian/Human conflict. But the transition from "you can join us" to not picking him for the squad seems off. Basically, I want to go with an all human squad until Virmire.

 

I think xenophobia being exclusively against Turians makes most sense.

In real life people who are racist are usually racist against a particular group.

The whole (insert race) supremacist thing is a rare thing.

 

Humans in the Mass Effect universe are most likely to be exclusively racist against Turians.

 

 

Racists are one of the most misunderstood kinds of individuals.

They are usually only racist against a specific group (as opposed to everyone who isn't part of their race).

They often have friends who are of the group that they are racist against.

They are often unaware of their own racism.

Their racism is so subtle that even the people around them don't notice their brand of racism.

 

 

The less cartoony and more nuanced the racism, the more interesting it can be.

Extreme and blatant racism (e.g. racial supremacists) are difficult to write, since you can easily fall into the trap of producing a cartoon character.

Racists are people. Reprehensible people, but still people.

 

 

My tips for an interesting Xenophobic Shepard:

 

1. Be exclusively or at least mostly racist towards one race. Turians are your best bet given the First Contact War.
2. Make the racism only a part of Shepard's personality rather than the entirety.
3. Take geth47's advice.

[geth47]

It´s also important to empathize that sometimes racism is circumstantial. There are many brands and degrees of racism. To ask for genetic cleasing by means of exterminating certain populations is just the final degree. People can exercise a form of racism by believing that certain individuals from a certain racial background can not exercise clerical works, or that people of different races should not mix, because this could be detrimental to the new generations. Some believe that only people of a certain ethnic origin have true souls. 

 

Another suggestion I would give it to you is to make your shepard a colony kid who lost his parents to the batarians, and then became a war hero. Inquire Liara is you can trust her (this happens during the first talk, that should be brief, and then on Noveria. After she proves herself to be loyal in front of benezia, your character can start to have a change of heart, feeling compassionate to her after she witnessed her mother dying. being an orphan tormented by memories, your shepard can sympathize with the fact that Liara suffers as any person would with her recent loss. 

[geth47]

"Be exclusively or at least mostly racist towards one race. Turians are your best bet given the First Contact War."

 

Well, the problem is that the Turians are allied with both the Asari and the Salarians in the Citadel Council. 

 

If you dislike turians, by extension you have to be at the very least cautious about their closest allies.

[KrrKs]

Beeing strikt anti batarian might fit better (especially if you pick something like geth said, though Torfan backround might fit more)

This also allows a semi-anti council stance, for <insert headcanon here> (e.g. a turian ship doing nothing to prevent the raid on Mindoir, or similar).

 

About Wrex's and Garrus dialogue:

-Didn't you also do a run where you did not recruit Wrex? I guess the level of errors is similar as in that case, especially in ME3.

 

About romancing Liara, that depends on the headcanon involved. So it is believable if you want it to be.

->It does help that you can be somewhat of an ass to her in the beginning, and she still asks if there is something more.

[cap and gown]

Going by Geth47's suggestion, the mission order should probably be Therum -> Noveria -> Virmire. Therum to get Liara. Noveria to establish trust. Virmire for Shepard to start rethinking the role of aliens (after which she goes and picks up Garrus). The problem I see is that Feros has always seemed to be the most pressing mission because as far as we know it is currently under attack, so any diversion may lead to the colony being destroyed.

 

BTW, Shepard's background is going to be Colonist/Sole Survivor. This will be done for the Cerberus tie in.

 

I should note that I am interested in a "believable" story because I want to record this playthrough for youtube consumption. The recording is to keep my RP on track (the idea of having someone watching over my shoulder as I play), and the believability is so the viewer (of which I have none ) can accept the story I am telling.

[cap and gown]

About Wrex's and Garrus dialogue:

-Didn't you also do a run where you did not recruit Wrex? I guess the level of errors is similar as in that case, especially in ME3.

 

About romancing Liara, that depends on the headcanon involved. So it is believable if you want it to be.

->It does help that you can be somewhat of an ass to her in the beginning, and she still asks if there is something more.

 

Yeah, I did a non-Wrex playthrough a while back, but I thought mikefest might have even more info on a post-Virmire recuitment.

 

Talk about being an ass to Liara: I did a speed run recently where I did Therum last. Not only do you get Liara going on about hallucinating, but in the post-mission debrief, Shepard even got a line off about "stop whining or I'll drop your sorry ass back in that volcano." I was really surprised and amused at just how nasty Shepard could be.

[themikefest]

Yeah, I did a non-Wrex playthrough a while back, but I thought mikefest might have even more info on a post-Virmire recuitment.

 

Only what I posted above. I was a little surprised that no dialogue of his changed.

[BloodyMares]

Since you already recruited wrex, you can dismiss garrus both at the clinic or at the elevator.  he will be at c-sec untill you steal the normandy, and can be recruited until that point. 

If you go to the clinic, there's no way to turn Garrus down even if you have Wrex with you. Shepard just says 'Okay but I will be watching you' (standard outcome). The only way to dismiss either Garrus or Wrex is when they're standing near the elevator to the Docking Bay. After that they're going to the Flux (or at least Wrex does) and I believe available for recruitment until you go for Ilos.

[cap and gown]

Having finished up my previous playthrough with Tatyana Shepard (Colonist-Ruthless), I have now started a new playthrough with Morwen Shepard (Colonist-Sole Survivor). Although the questions I asked in this thread were related to a "xenophobic" Shepard, the defining feature of this new Shepard will not be her xenophobia, which she will mostly overcome, but her revulsion towards slavery/control. (Morwen is going to shoot the red tube, assuming the playthrough gets that far.) Morwen hates slavers and anyone else who would assume control over another sentient being and deny them the ability to decide their own destiny. Major plot decisions will include freeing the Queen and opposing the genophage. She will also be anti-Cerberus (Akuze background).

 

I would invite anyone who is interested to follow along and provide suggestions on how to keep the story on track based on Morwen's background and general outlook.

 

And thank you to everyone in this thread who provided suggestions/information on how to RP a xenophobic Shepard.

[Farangbaa]

Did you do your background quest yet?

[cap and gown]

Did you do your background quest yet?

 

You mean origins? The Talitha/I remember me quest? No. Shepard just now landed on Eden Prime. That vid hasn't even finished uploading yet.

[Farangbaa]

That should be a very traumatic experience for your Shep.

[cap and gown]

That should be a very traumatic experience for your Shep.

 

It may be traumatic for me. Last time I did that quest I actually choked up a bit. I was somewhat surprised. Maybe had something to do with the intensity of doing a Let's Play.