34 réponses à ce sujet

[Dale]

In ME2 the collectors were collecting LIVE human specimens to be "converted into grey liquid" and pumpted thru hoses to create a human reaper.  

 

The Illusive Man in his dialogue with Shep said (more or less) "after they are stunned, why don't they just KILL them?"   Okay, they need LIVE humans for the human reaper.    This fits the definition for HARVEST.  

 

Why is it then when the Reapers go galactic genocide every 50k (ME3), they just KILL (not harvest)?   Seems to be a double standard here.   

 

Your thoughts?

[Excella Gionne]

I thought of this when you said "Harvest."

[Excella Gionne]

It was never really too clear if they were trying to kill you or harvest you. Most of the time, it was always "kill." The Catalyst is stupid, and should feel stupid when he said the Reapers do not seek war. "I find that hard to believe."

 

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

[GreyLycanTrope]

They harvest every cycle, this isn't made clear until the sequels though, in ME1 Vigil stated they just wiped out civilizations and left the indoctrinated to die of exposure after they were done. Either this harvesting was an idea that was thought up of later by the writing team or the harvesting just looked like genocide since all the few survivors saw was the Reapers liquifying people and attacking planets.

 

The humans being alive might be something about wanting to upload the minds/knowledge of the people into the Reaper as well, there have been parts of both the Catalyst and Legion's dialogue back in ME2 which suggests this is the case. Then again we do see them load up corpses for harvesting in ME3 when we get to the Citadel, so living might not be a requirement.

[SwobyJ]

"or the harvesting just looked like genocide since all the few survivors saw was the Reapers liquifying people and attacking planets."

 

I prefer this one ^

 

Also, Harvest of souls.

 

It is a spiritual thing. Does this unit have a soul.

 

If the Reapers think themselves as gods or angels, then Saving organics is their priority. Ascend the worthy minds, and Destroy the rest, before they make things worse.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Because they don't need to harvest every human in existence? 

 

That's not a double standard (by the definition of the phrase that you're using) the Reapers are performing, even if your scenario was true. That's just the Reapers harvesting enough people to satisfy their needs, and killing the rest.

[Hazegurl]

Because they didn't think their story thru.

[cyrslash1974]

It's why I prefer destroying reapers. They want to preserve DNA but not life. They kill organics they dont need. Bad solution. Thank you catalyst ...

[Cainhurst Crow]

I like to think its similar to how actual farmers do this, where you have a set crop you can harvest, and the rest is either not good enough to harvest or exceeds your quota, so you have to get rid of it or else it'll ruin the rest of the harvest.

 

This however is far more likely in the long run,

 

Because they didn't think their story thru.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's why I prefer destroying reapers. They want to preserve DNA but not life. They kill organics they dont need. Bad solution. Thank you catalyst ...

 

That actually is preservation of life. Just a different definition than your used to.

[dreamgazer]

Preservation of life =/= Preservation of all life. 

 

Our civilization certainly wouldn't need---or even want---to preserve the memories and knowledge of every known life in an effort to safeguard humanity. 

[Daemul]

It's why I prefer destroying reapers. They want to preserve DNA but not life. They kill organics they dont need. Bad solution. Thank you catalyst ...

That is preservation of life. You don't need preserve every single being in order to preserve humanity. 

[KaiserShep]

Preservation of life. Like Dole preserves peaches.

[KaiserShep]

That is preservation of life. You don't need preserve every single being in order to preserve humanity. 

 

But if every single human is killed, then humanity is basically no more. Genetic code stored in a giant death machine, with seemingly no hope of being used to reconstitute the race that was obliterated, is no more preservation of that particular species than making furniture preserves trees.

[SwobyJ]

But if every single human is killed, then humanity is basically no more. Genetic code stored in a giant death machine, with seemingly no hope of being used to reconstitute the race that was obliterated, is no more preservation of that particular species than making furniture preserves trees.

 

Yes.

 

Preserve organic life.

Preserve civilizations.

ASCEND humanity.

 

They don't really care about 'humanity'. To them, it is obsolete and frail - almost literally like insects are to us, really. They'll take records of our civilizations and genetic code so that we're not forgotten about, and they let the 'field' continue to grow with organics so that organic sapient life is never extinguished entirely. Yes, they are rather parasitical. The Reapers are not 'good guys', for sure. Just somewhat understandable.

 

 

seemingly no hope of being used to reconstitute the race that was obliterated

 

I partially doubt that. Yes, humanity as-we-know-it-in-ME-trilogy isn't going to be reconstituted. It can't. It would already be ruined. Even if reconstructions were made, it would never be the exact same thing in every way.

 

But the Reapers really could possibly, if broken from the cycle and strict beliefs, recreate from matter entities that really resembled humans and maybe even carried largely human thinking and memories. Husks for the Cycle were just troop fodder - but there is room for speculation on what Reapers (really just Old Effin-Powerful Machines) could more positively create with their tech level and databases.

 

Too bad Synthesis (and even Control) didn't communicate that message too well.

[KaiserShep]

I gathered that they didn't care from their rather obvious lack of writhing in pain over their inner turmoil. Doesn't matter though, 'cause they're dead, Jim.

[SwobyJ]

I gathered that they didn't care from their rather obvious lack of writhing in pain over their inner turmoil. Doesn't matter though, 'cause they're dead, Jim.

 

As long as we're good with the Geth and EDI that carried Reaper code being gone too, yes. And Shepard himself.

 

But that is of course made easier if you already made the Geth Death decision (or just don't care for them anyway), talked with EDI enough to understand that she'd accept Destroy anyway, and you're either okay with Shepard dying, or you have the Breath EMS for him to maybe-very-probably survive

[KaiserShep]

"Maybe-very-probably" sure as hell beats derezzing, certainly better than TIM's reaper madness or jolly green Saren.

 

As for EDI and the geth, honestly the geth are pretty much a non-issue for me compared to EDI. If I had to choose between her and the entirety of the geth, I'd choose EDI every time.

[SwobyJ]

I can have some transhuman and posthuman tendencies, but where I draw the line is the 'oh you'll upload everything to a machine and it'll be you-but-not-you' and thinking that that actually means anything for myself. Especially if it means Shepard's death, I'm not really for it. Copies of Shepard? Hey cool. I don't want him to die for that though. That's silly. No, I won't be a goddamn Reaper. (Yet. *cough*)

 

I have other ideas about what's going on in the ending (one of the crazier ones being that our Shepard isn't even real so there's nothing to really 'kill' persay ), but still, I'm squeemish. So I don't pick Control. Creepy.

 

Red Janey Destroy is really the way to go for me, even as a Paragon/Paragade.

 

I'll wait for some later protagonist and game/duology/trilogy to pick the Blue final option, I guess. Shepard's Story is not the time. Too creepy. Sorry EDI.

[KaiserShep]

I think I'll have my ruthless colonist go the renegade control route. He's seen so much crap and killed most of his friends. When he fired that shot into Mordin's back, it was a downward spiral.

[SwobyJ]

Oh yeah there's always RP reasons. Even (barely) for Synthesis. But hell if my MainShep will do it... *

 

*/is hypocrite and chose Synthesis first time.

 

When we look at Paragon/Blue, it is often Shepard buckling against whatever faction/familiarity** he's supposed to be with at a given time, in order to extend a hand to others that are more external to him, and therefore changing him as a person to be more empathetic and/or weakened in resolve against things. I'm just not gonna do that to the Reapers kthnx.

 

 

**Even destroying the Collector Base was Shepard buckling against his Cerberus 'boss' and doing something 'for the lost', instead of the living. This is remarked on as well in upper-right options when speaking to the Reaper Destroyer.

[Dale]

Preservation of life. Like Dole preserves peaches.

That's witty & hilarious there KaiserShep.

DANG!  Somebody has a sense of humor on this forum!

[Farangbaa]

Harvest?

 

That time just after sacrificing a celebrity to appease the Gods.

[SporkFu]

Sacrificing a celebrity? 

[Cheviot]

In ME2 the collectors were collecting LIVE human specimens to be "converted into grey liquid" and pumpted thru hoses to create a human reaper.  

 

The Illusive Man in his dialogue with Shep said (more or less) "after they are stunned, why don't they just KILL them?"   Okay, they need LIVE humans for the human reaper.    This fits the definition for HARVEST.  

 

Why is it then when the Reapers go galactic genocide every 50k (ME3), they just KILL (not harvest)?   Seems to be a double standard here.   

 

Your thoughts?

They harvest and kill.  They sort through captured organics for the best of the crop and process them, presumably in the same way as at the the Collector base.  The chaff are transformed into Reaper troops.  There's one or two codex entries that mention this, I think.  As for the organics yet to be captured, the ones attacking Reapers (or trying to protect more of the crop) are themselves attacked.  In this way the Reapers harvests a cycle, leaving the field fertile enough to produce a new crop for the next harvest.