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What's your definition of "HARVEST" -- and why?


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#26
Shahadem

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They kill. A culture and civilization don't just exist based on the living beings in any one moment, but the progression and growth of all the generations that are and will be born. The thing that was most important, the civilization and the people, are gone. Sure the memories of the individuals might continue, but there is no growth.

 

It's funny Bioware went this route when both they had Legion and Mordin directly tell the player that a civilization, a culture is based on growth, based on creativity, artistic expression, all the things that are lost when the Reapers harvest. Sure you might still be "alive" but you are no more alive than you would be if you were in a coma that you could never wake from.

 

Of course the vast amount of constant destruction, horror, and death that is caused by the Reapers "harvesting" all but negates their purpose either in preserving the galaxy for life to flourish (especially since this cycle actually took great pains to preserve fledgling worlds by essentially following Star Trek's Prime Directive), and there is direct evidence that organics and inorganics can get along, but there is no reason to suppose that inorganics would ever want to rule the galaxy since inorganic life would very quickly run out of any reason for continuing to exist owing to how much faster inorganics can process information and come to conclusions. An inorganic in 10 years would have been able to answer the big question of what the purpose of life is, at which point they'd no longer see any reason to continue living. In fact EDI herself suggests this is the case when she and Legion are talking, and he asks her how she can live with humans and she replies "some seconds are harder than others".

 

And not harvesting some species now so that you can harvest them in 50,000 years is like a death row inmate getting a 5 day extension on his death sentence. He's thankful for the extra time but at the end of the day he'd prefer not getting executed. 



#27
Remix-General Aetius

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this :)

 

useful_things_diet_01.jpg


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#28
Guest_Magick_*

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Harvest-the procreation of beauty through unconventional means.

 

OP, ME2 somewhat changed much of the story and MEU in general. It was never made clear whether or not live specimens are needed to create a reaper. Also, the collection and piles of corpses were never made clear either. Out of all the species in each cycle, one is chosen to become a new reaper, so why is that? I don't exactly know the process of creating a reaper but something just doesn't make sense and add up. Some part of me felt the council knew of the reaper existence and have somewhat played a role in assisting the reapers and the collectors. I sense a conspiracy behind all this.



#29
AlanC9

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Why is it then when the Reapers go galactic genocide every 50k (ME3), they just KILL (not harvest)?   Seems to be a double standard here.   
 
Your thoughts?


My main thought is that you should probably be more familiar with the Codex if you're going to start threads like this. Have you read the Codex entry "Harvesting"? As Cheviot mentions, this topic is covered.

Perhaps ME3 should have showed us a harvest in progress at some point? The closest we come is various notes discovered during Priority: Earth, but players who don't read Codex entries might not read those either.

#30
AlanC9

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It's funny Bioware went this route when both they had Legion and Mordin directly tell the player that a civilization, a culture is based on growth, based on creativity, artistic expression, all the things that are lost when the Reapers harvest. Sure you might still be "alive" but you are no more alive than you would be if you were in a coma that you could never wake from.


This is only funny if you don't expect the Reapers to be in the wrong. A bad guy doing bad things because of a bad theory isn't all that weird.

#31
teh DRUMPf!!

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They kill. A culture and civilization don't just exist based on the living beings in any one moment, but the progression and growth of all the generations that are and will be born. The thing that was most important, the civilization and the people, are gone. Sure the memories of the individuals might continue, but there is no growth.

 

It's funny Bioware went this route when both they had Legion and Mordin directly tell the player that a civilization, a culture is based on growth, based on creativity, artistic expression, all the things that are lost when the Reapers harvest. Sure you might still be "alive" but you are no more alive than you would be if you were in a coma that you could never wake from.

 

Assuming that the harvested cultures/civilizations would otherwise be destroyed by their own machine creations -- which the Catalyst clearly is assuming -- then the entirety of those cultures and their lives are essentially forfeit since their doomed to extinction. The Reaper created with their memory, however, is built to last (except in the odd event it falls in war). So, even if the "souls" of harvested individuals used to create it are dead, and the Reaper is an entirely different thing than the collective used to create it, the Reaper itself counts as a form of life in its own right, and one can argue it preserves that which is most important from the life it harvested.

 

And 1 (Reaper) > 0 (zero being the valuation of organic civilizations because, again, the Catalyst assumes they're doomed and their lives are forfeit).

 

Not saying it's a good solution, but I can see how it is a solution in the Catalyst's eyes when nothing else fulfills his function.



#32
Dale

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Because they don't need to harvest every human in existence? 

 

That's not a double standard (by the definition of the phrase that you're using) the Reapers are performing, even if your scenario was true. That's just the Reapers harvesting enough people to satisfy their needs, and killing the rest.

Hummm -- interesting perspective.   On the collector ship there was a pile of "discards".

 

What confuses me is at the end of the DLC (which slams the asteroid into a mass relay), there is a conversation between Shep and the Collector General who says "your [galactic] leaders will beg to be harvested" (not just killed).


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#33
jros83

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Because they didn't think their story thru.

Exactly.



#34
KaiserShep

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What confuses me is at the end of the DLC (which slams the asteroid into a mass relay), there is a conversation between Shep and the Collector General who says "your [galactic] leaders will beg to be harvested" (not just killed).

 

With indoctrination, the reapers could pretty much make people do whatever they want, provided they're exposed to the signal long enough.

 

Your [galactic] leaders will climb to their rooftops and perform scenes from H.M.S. Pinafore.



#35
SwobyJ

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"beg to be harvested"

"beg to serve us"

 

Either way, he's talking of some sort of indoctrination.